I've been looking over the posts regarding optics here, and I do hope folks will take this reprise of a post I ran at HuntAmerica about a year ago in the jovial nature it's intended to be taken in...

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Against the advice of a couple of friends who own much more expensive scopes, I purchased and am currently enjoying a Weaver Grand Slam scope. I paid a little over 300 bucks for it and mounted it on a Savage Tactical rifle for which I paid just over 400 dollars.
This is the most money I have spent for a scope to this point, although I do own a couple of used Burris scopes and used Leupolds which would have cost more had I bought them new.
The Grand Slam compares beautifully (optically speaking) to two different Vari X III Leupolds I've encountered, and the owners of those Leupolds have agreed, although one reluctantly... Granted, we will have to see how the Weaver holds up over the years, and Leupold owners may get the last laugh if I ever need warranty work. We'll see.

I guess the point I wanted to advance is this: If one spends near a grand on a scope because he "can't afford to own a cheap scope," does he use this philosophy in other areas of his life, or does he just have a scope fetish?

Yes, it would be most inconvenient to have the buck of a lifetime in the crosshairs when said crosshairs decide to pop and curl up like singed cat whiskers. Not good at all to be sure...

But what about the other equipment needed to bring this climax of a dream hunt to fruition? Can we afford to be frugal in the purchase of those items?

My old Ford pick-up seems alright... I hope it will get me to the point where I plan to unload my four wheeler this morning. Maybe I ought to trade for a newer truck to use during the second week of deer season. Can't afford to break down out here, that's for sure...

I guess the tires on my four wheeler will do for at least one more season. I think the chances of a Tasco scope letting me down at the moment of truth are ten fold greater than the chances of blowing a tire up here in the middle of nowhere at 4:30 in the morning, don't you?

Or is it really 4:30? What if my old faithful Timex has failed me and I'm forty-five minutes late for the buck I've been watching for the last three weeks? I guess a Rolex is in order for the next hunt, no doubt. My wife will understand that I just can't afford not to have a Rolex--her '89 Pontiac will just have to last a couple more years and I saw some real bargains on clothes for the kids at the Goodwill store the other day. Gotta get the Rolex!

And speaking of tickers, what about all that red meat I've been foundering on over the years? Forty extra pounds of belly make me damned glad I've got this nifty twenty-five hundred dollar lightweight rifle and scope combo!

But this confounded hill gets steeper... every time... I (huff) walk (puff) up... (phew!!)...it...

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Okay gentlemen, I've rolled up the cuffs of my Ralph Lauren signature camo huntin' britches (can't afford to bust a seam out here), so fire up your (Stihl not Homelite) weed eaters and let the leg striping begin!

Dan Newberry
green 788, and Wizard

I always suggest that anyone on a limited budget get a good fixed power scope, not a variable. Actually, I can afford whatever I want, but tend to prefer fixed powers. My favorites are the 4x and 6X42 Leupolds. Optically the 6X42 Leo. is superior to the 3.5-10X40 VariX III when VarX III is set at 6X. E

I can see where you are coming from. However, that does not negate the fact that you have to pay to play no matter what. I always find the people who complain about not having the best are the ones who won't do anything about making more money, actually working for it, and obtaining your goals, instead of flowndering in their own pity. Generally though, as I know shit can happen to the best of people.

As I posted on another topic, I used to work for a performance car shop. The majority of the people would want Porsche speed out of their non-Porsche cars for practically nothing. But there were also the people who raced for the company team who put tens of thousands of dollars into their cars and got the speed on the quarter mile track. Then there are the peole who want that speed for 200 bucks. No way Jose.

The same can be true of the hunting world. I am sure everybody and their grandma's dog would love a D'Arcy Echols Legend rifle, a nice 4x4 and trailor, top of the line gear, being able to hunt around the world several times each year, but it can't be that way. I just read that most people are two paychecks away from going bankrupt. If someone lost their job for somereason they would be two pay periods away from running out of money.

I had a talk with D'Arcy about this. At the Dallas SCI show he told me to look around and see the people trying to make copies of his rifles for half the price. He makes a top quality rifle that he has a hard time selling because people arn't willing to pay for top quality products.

No, European scopes are not for everyone. Not everyone is willing or can pay for them. But what ticks me off is when people like Ray in their hypocritical, arrogant, and foolishness attempt to diminish the facts. Anybody can sit here and say one is better then the other, and then there are the people who use arguements that just don't work. Yes, European scopes typically have less eye relief then Leupolds. This however is not always the case, and more often then not the differnce is non argueable, such as being .1-.3 inches differnce.

Anyways back to your topic. I don't feel it's fair of you to use your own faults to prove your point in the manor you just did. But that's my opinion...

Sincerely,

Buell

So D'arcy is having a hard time selling a M70 with Kreiger barrel,synthetic stock and redesigned 20 dollars worth of innovation to fix a problem few have ever had after thousands of rounds fired under real hunting conditions magazine box. Who'd have thought.

Green788...Cheap scopes can do the job. I recently bought a pre 64 model 70 300 Winchester Magnum, from an old hunter. He had bought it new in the summer of 1963 to take Elk hunting. He had the dealer mount and boresight a steel tube 4x Weaver, in Weaver mounts. The old boy hunted elk with that setup from the fall of 1963, until the fall of 1990,(his last year of elk hunting). That's real close to 27 years. He didn't shoot much when he wasn't shooting at game, matter of fact, he didn't quite put two boxes of shells through that rifle before he retired from hunting in 1990. I bought the rifle from the old hunter this summer, the gun had sat in his closet for 12 years. I put three shots through it when I got it, to check functioning. I could hit a clay target with it at one hundred yards. I had a new 3x9 Leupold on the shelf, so I decided to mount it on the rifle. I was the first one to touch the scope mounts holding that old Weaver since the dealer installed it way back in 1963. Pretty good service for a cheap scope, I would say...... Grant.

Even though I don't own one, I have a friend in Eastern Montana that has a Tasco on his .220 Swift. That gun goes on the tractor, combine and in the pickup wherever he does. It is never cased and to my knowledge it has never failed him yet.

The best advice I can give is to buy the best "you" can afford.If your budget is very limited get the best you can for your money and make due.If you budget is large buying better quality gear may help and it certainly won't hurt.

People like Ray, now Buell that would be Jack Belk, Customstox, Geo. Hoffman, Lb404, Nickkudu, Saeed,RAb, Longbob, Robingun,Allen, John S., Mac, MIkeh and a bunch of others to many to name...I consider that pretty darn good company..thank you very much. We don't always agree but we do have lot of respect for each others views. Thats something you have failed to notice. In fact you insist on telling everyone who disagrees with you that they are arrogrant, stupid and various others terms of endearment when in fact your the one stirring things up all the time.

Ray-

I find it hard to believe you can call the fine gentlemen you listed "like" you in the sense I was reffering to. I have not known them to be the bastard you have been.

Sincerely,

Buell

I don't think I need to apologize for using (or not using a specific scope)..I bought my first Swarovski for several reasons (1) I was currently pissed at Leupold (2) I liked the way the Swarovski focused (3) I liked the clarity and quality of the optics and (4) I fell in love with the "battue" reticle they offered. My first one, a 1.5x6x42mm ProHunter, went on my Hellcat. My second Swarovski is an AV (1") model and that is on my Patriot. The scope I use when working up loads on a new rifle is a Weaver 6x20 Grand Slam.
The Grand Slam is one helluva bargain.

Ray-

This is a quote from lb404:

quote:

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Now look at scopes, I personally only shoot Euro scopes. I am fortunate enough to be able to hunt with most anything I want so after comparing the various scopes I found that the adjustments were more precise on the Euros. Leupold scopes tend to drift into place instead of clicking into place. Try this test with any scope you want. Take a rifle / scope combo and known quantity ammo, and shoot a shot, move the adjustment 1 inch left and shoot, then move the adjustment 1 inch up and shoot, then move the adjustment 1 inch right and shoot. There should be 4 separate holes in approximate a one inch square. Now shoot a group and see if the group stays in or near the first shot. On most Euros the tracking will go well. Even our silhouette shooters can�t pull this off very well with Leupold scopes. Really try it you will be amazed! Take as much time as you need don�t let the barrel heat up.
The fact that we often see a $50 scope on a $500 rifle will tent to let you know a lot about the average hunters knowledge about hunting and shooting. At 54 I need all the help a short fat guy can get and I do better with the rifles I shoot with euro optics. I buy all of the Leupolds I can find to resell- but you won't find one on any of my firearms. Any of you guys that want to get rid of your nasty euro scopes in trade for Leupold varieties----please let me know! I DO thik they make a difference.
lb404

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Sincerely,

Buell

Buell Tibbe???????? Oh, no, that was Bill.......

First of all i think Leupold make excellent scopes ,no doubt about that.Maybe Leupold make the worlds most reliable scopes,i dont know but certainly they are good.
Iam a deer hunter most of all. I have one 2.5-10x56 swarovski for use in twilight and dark.This scope is not very heavy 18oz and only 13.62 inches.So i can carry it on the rifle all day long if i want to,thats no problem.
I also have Leupold Vari-XIIc 1-4x20 for use in daylight. I have only one big game rifle, i dont ned more rifles just to shoot a deer.And i certanly do not need an ultrasuperduperhallelujahmagnum.
My point is: i prefer to have one expensive scope (+1 Leupold) and one rifle(maybe i could have two) instead of have a lot of rifles with Leupold on.A lot of rifles also cost a lot of money, more than a expensive scope.
I could of course use a Leupold Vari-XIII for night hunting,but i think European scopes are better for night and twilight and the prize difference is very little here in Norway.
As a matter of fact i dont know any norwegian hunter who prefer Leupold instead of Zeiss,Swarovski , S&B etc for nighttime and twilight hunting.

[ 07-29-2002, 18:11: Message edited by: Hjortejeger ]

I know about one norweigian that uses Leopold on all his hunting and thinks they are the best.
He's also somewhat of an american rifle fan as far I I remeber.
Johan

Buell is William Tibbe, aka Kendall Dace aka Mondele and others who has been kicked off every board on the internet at one time or another and he just re-registers under another name and flames away...

Jack Belk and I are trying to located him geographically and he has no ranch in Jackson, Wy. as claimed, but were going to track him down.

Ray
I told Buell to stop his vendetta against you.
Are you too going to start a vendetta?
"...track him down....."
Why dont you rather come over to Norway for some deer hunting ,hunting season from 10.September-15.November? This is not a joke,but you have to pay for your journey yourself.
Maybe you can get some new experience and "track down" some deer?

Good luck tracking!!

Ray-

I am not Tibbe, Todd E, Mondele and who ever the hell else you think I am.

If you are not going to believe me, email Don G. I have given him all of my contact info for Saeed's video. I would ask that he not reveal that info, but to confirm that I am infact from the US, and do have a real address. Otherwise he is sending the video to oblivian.

I would be glad to talk about this via email. Check my profile as it has been updated....

Buell

Buell You have made several statements about arrogance and closed minded ness from others, but from this thread it seems to me you are truelly the "pot calling the kettle black".

You made this comment

"I can see where you are coming from. However, that does not negate the fact that you have to pay to play no matter what. I always find the people who complain about not having the best are the ones who won't do anything about making more money, actually working for it, and obtaining your goals, instead of flowndering in their own pity. Generally though, as I know shit can happen to the best of people."

Well sir let tell you I am not able to afford many things in this world, but I most certanly do NOT whine about it. Nor do I blame anyone for this. I have made many choices in my life to bring myself to where I am. Mainly leaving a more lucrative line of work for the job I currently have. This was done to allow me more time to aspend with my WIFE AND 2 KIDS. Yes this decission has meant I don't get the very best brand name of everything, or go to all corners of the world to hunt. Instead I am content to hunt deer in my local area once a year and save for a trip somewhere else every 5-10 years. And you know what? not only do I NOT regret this but I actually LOVE IT! This all means that when my son has a bad day at school my wife can be home to greet him. It means that when my 7 month old daughter says her first words she will not be talking to some stranger in a daycare facility. It means that I am home everynight BEFORE there bed time to play with them! Mostly it means that I have made ADULT decissions about what is truly important in my life.

Hunting is great but in the end it is just a hobby. My family is the most important single thing in the world to me. Nothing I have done for their benifit is a sacrafice and I resent your implication that I am somehow to lazy or stupid to earn more money so I can buy the "best" as you see it. I allready have the BEST, and they kiss me goodnight every night and smile at me every morninig

My "mediocre" equipment has never once stopped me from hunting or from taking an animal. I doubt it ever will.

[ 07-29-2002, 19:35: Message edited by: Tom ]