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| <Eric Leonard> |
i am confidant i could pick up any bolt gun,have it zeroed in and ready to hunt with in a month.if you have confidance in yourself the gun is secondary.i think if you can shoot that you will not miss many elk no matter what your shooting.i bet you i could get that weatherby lined up dead zero at 250 with 1 box of shells and with the trajectory of any the weatherby cal. i would be set for elk to 325 or so. | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
True, you could do it, *if* you were a shooter. From the signs here though, this guy is not. If he was, he wouldn't be walking in with brand new stuff this close to the season. This sounds like the kind of guy who "always thought hunting would be fun", got an invite from a buddy, and "outfitted" himself in a one-stop shopping trip. Don't be surprised if you see this same rig sitting on the dealer's rack post-season, slightly used, for sale... | ||
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| one of us |
I have mentioned before that here in Montana going to the local gun store the few days before Big Game opener is traditional entertainment. Watching these people buy the dirt cheap $299 "package" gun , complete with a single box of ammo and their boresighted, cheap scope. I have often wondered the damage these folks perpetrate against the local game populations. My most memorable is the guy picking up his .338-.378 Wby Mag, which had been on layaway all summer. He buys a single box of Wby ammo, shows off the big case to anyone interested to see it, the whole time talking about what a thousand yard elk cartridge it is. Then has the gunsmith mount and boresight a bottom of the line, Bushnell SportView 3-9, $39.95 special! I often wondered how many shots before that scope gave up the ghost. Even better entertainment is to watch the antics at any of the local public ranges the Saturday afternoon before the Sunday opener. I once saw not one, but TWO accidental discharges in one group of four men within 90 seconds of each other!!! How no one was injured is beyond me. I promptly left the area. FN | |||
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| <257 AI> |
I think that Gary is right. I shoot quite a bit and I have never had someone else mount my scope for me. It's not that hard and I don't really trust anyone else to do it for me. If I was to hazard a guess I would say this guy has shot fewer rounds in his life than any of us have in the last month. I do enjoy going to the range shortly before season just to watch. Kind of like the Keystone Cops.  I just wish one of these jokers would buy and subsiquently sell, something that I want. Like a Winchester Classic in 300 WSM.------------------ | ||
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| <Eric Leonard> |
the guy you saw may not be able to but i know in my mind i could. | ||
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| <257 AI> |
Eric, I'm sure you could, so could I, and Gary and Frank and probably almost every other person that frequents this forum. The thing is we are the exception rather than the norm for gun owners. Every year I see guys the have just bought a new rifle, usually their first, one maby two boxes of ammo and they're ready to go hunting! These jokers barely know which end of the gun to point the other direction let alone how to actually hunt. I read a story in a local Division of Wildlife publication about a guy that called a sporting goods store after season started to ask them how to field dress a deer. Then he told them that he didn't even have a knife! Unfortunatly these are the kind of people that we are sharing the woods with every year. Maby they should require that everyone hunt with a mentor for their first year. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
Guys (and girls too if you are on here), This all reminds me of a story. My old college roommate, myself, and some other friends were elk hunting in Clatsop County, OR, when he missed a big bull with his "package gun", a .270 savage with a bushnell 3-9x scope. I know the gun actually shot very well, and he could also shoot it well, but it had to be the gun's fault, so guess the next step....yup, .338 Win Mag, a very nice ruger with synthetic stock and stainless barrel. He was telling me about how tough this gun was, and how there wasn't an elk, moose, bear, or tyrannosaurus rex that would get away from him now. Only problem was that he couldn't shoot it worth beans, nor would he shoot it enough to get the scope sighted in. Later that year, he and I were hunting elk, and he took a shot at a smaller bull at about 150 yards, and blew the shot and hit the bull in the guts. It ran a long ways, until I saw it across an opening at about 225 yards. I put it down with one shot, but not with my 7mm Rem Mag or any other super magnum but my ancient .303 British using factory winchester 180 gr. power points. A gun that I was told time and time again by people "in the know" that it wasn't even good enough for deer. He still swears that his .338 is the only way to go. The odd thing is that his 110 lb. girlfriend can shoot MOA with it off the bench easily... Dont' know the point...just a good story... Joel Slate | |||
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| <1LoneWolf> |
Everyone has to start somewhere. His choices are pretty good, so he must have done a little research on his picks. Now, all we can hope for is that he puts in some time learning his rifle and learning "safety first". A reasonably intelligent man or woman can handle the basics of safety quickly. If he isn't a yahoo, I'd have little problem hunting near him. In fact, I think as I write this, that I have seen many a long time hunter, maybe age 30 thru 50 get careless because they are "know it alls". They frighten me worse than this guy. Simply because, they are apt to shoot quick at their target. This new gent with a little safety training, won't be as quick. He will probably be identifying his target quite well. Yeah, yahoos frighten me more than new guys. They are just more prone to doing something off learned behavior than a new guy. New guys are usually a little slower on the trigger. If they are, once again, "reasonably intelligent". ------------------ | ||
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| <Eric Leonard> |
at least he bought a gun,and lord knows we need all the gun owners in this country we can get. | ||
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| <GB> |
I work at a local hunting store and am the guy who mounts, bore sites and zero's this gentlemans rig. At our store I'd say the vast majority of deer hunters have little interest in the art of riflery or becoming rifleman, they just want a rifle that will work. This applies to at least 98% of our customers, rich or poor, old or young. Most of you would be amazed at the number of wealthy clients we have that bring us 2-5 rifles every year before hunting season to be cleaned and the zeroes checked. Then off to Africa and Alaska they go. Looking at their trophy rooms I'd say that can shoot ok, at least some of the time, they just do not have the interest in rifles to spend (read "waste") time at the range. I guess they are too busy making money. I'm just thankful they bring them to me as I get to experiment with a vast assortment of rifles and scopes that I'd never be able to aquire on my own. Now the antics I see at the range could fill a volume or two, but the worst I see is an unqualified man attempting to teach his son to shoot...oh man, don't even think about trying to help! The bottom line is, if a man studies and practices riflery enough to consider himself a rifleman he is in the minority among the hunting fraternity not a 100th of a percent of the general population. If you doubt it just visit one of our public ranges in the summer, they are empty except for the handgun buffs, me and the occasional brass scrounger. I'm sure it's different elsewhere, but that's what I see every year...gb | ||
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| <Eric Leonard> |
i aint a smith or work at a gun shop,but there is still 6 rifles over in the corner friends have brought over for me to work a load for and zero for them.i love wearing out other peoples rifles.some dont even shoot them after i show them a target.i aint saying thats the smart thing to do but they hardly ever miss with something i zero for them.these people are all acomplished shots that just dont worry about thier guns. | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: Eric- I wasn't saying that YOU couldn't, maybe you took it wrong. A shooter can do it, I just have a vision of this guy getting his "perfectly boresighted" rig & heading for the woods without ever firing a shot. "Hell, why waste the ammo? The guy at the shop got it all zeroed for me with his nifty little thing there. All I needs to do now is go slay me an elk!" | ||
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| <Eric Leonard> |
gary,i didnt take it that i couldnt.but if i can then there has got to be others that could.he could have been a real hunter that just came into some money and decided to upgrade.even if he aint,you gotta start somewhere,and even though i am a Rem. man,he has got the tools if he has any help getting started he will be fine.if he is in that bad of shape maybe you shoulda offered to show him how to properly zero his new toy.great way to get to shoot a new weatherby.thats about the only way i get to shoot some of the high priced new guns. | ||
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| <Jeff S> |
I was playing with my .300 WSM at 300 yards this weekend and was not at all surprised that the gun didn't shoot where the ballistics tables said it should. In fact I've not found many rifles really shoot where anything says they should. I'm constantly amazed at people who zero their guns at 100 yards and go out and attempt 300+ yards without really shooting the thing at those distances. Heck, I'm amazed that my .308 168 Sierra HPBTs can get blown out of the 10 ring at 300 yards on a windy day in the course of shooting a rapid string in the NM course. | ||
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| <monty> |
I�ve seen the same story many times myself. Some guy walks in to the sporting goods store the night before the hunt opens, buy a new rifle, have it bore sighted, a box of ammo, and away they go! A week or two later the rifle and box of ammo is in the paper for sale. LOL Occasionally I pick up a good deal that way. | ||
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| one of us |
"My most memorable is the guy picking up his .338-.378 Wby Mag, which had been on layaway all summer. He buys a single box of Wby ammo, shows off the big case to anyone interested to see it, the whole time talking about what a thousand yard elk cartridge it is. Then has the gunsmith mount and boresight a bottom of the line, Bushnell SportView 3-9, $39.95 special! I often wondered how many shots before that scope gave up the ghost." Since only a novice would put that scope on that rifle, I bet it was a horse race to see which would give out first, the scope or the shooter's shoulder.... Very few tyros are up to a 338-378, muzzle brake or no. I would love to have seen him touch off the first couple of rounds - from behind, of course. Probably could have bought a 338-378 real cheap!! BigIron | |||
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| <ssleefl> |
Hey guys, don't knock them. They are trying and have to start somewhere. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes, listen around the campfire, and be careful. They probably have no experience in the woods and will not get a shot off. Spooked game is hard to see and even harder to hit. Instead of knocking the guy, how about advising him not to purchase the cheap scope and why. Mayhe is an owner of a large tract of land that is overrun with those pesky critters that keep tearing up his wifes garden. You just never know. If you were that guy, would you want someone as experienced as yourself to try to help??? Think about it. If we are the 1% of the population who knows whats going on, then act like it! I agree it's kind of funny and I can picture the poor bastard trying to shoot the 338-378 for the first(and only) time. I'm sure it will not be fun for him and he will not want to get into shooting. But with kind intervention maybe we can add a new member to the forum. | ||
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| <monty> |
Good point ss, I hadn�t thought of it that way! | ||
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| <Sniper> |
My wife has people come into the shop all the time doing crazy things here are a couple: 1. A guy came in wanting some .270 shells. So she asked what type, grain etc., so she got them and handed them to him. He argued that 270 Winchester shells would not work in his gun because his was a Remington so he needed 270 Remingtons. 2. A man came in complaining that his gun would not fire pulled the trigger and shot a hole through the roof. 3. (I saw this myself) A guy was wanting to buy a scope and held it out at arms length and complained he could not see through it very well. I watched him the whole time, he was looking through the wrong end. 4. People cannot get their muzzleloaders to fire and swear that they are empty. Most of the time they find them loaded..sometimes double loaded. Just a few to keep you wondering lol. | ||
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| <Sniper> |
Here's another good one. A man called the store complaining that a gun he had just bought he could not get the bullets to work or gun to fire. Puzzled my wife told him to bring it in and they would take a look at it. So he comes in and she asks what the problem is. He tells her the bullets won't fit into the magazine or the chamber so she asks to see the gun and ammunition. He comes back in with a Glock 22 and 22 long rifle ammo. He said when I put one into the chamber the cartridge just falls out the barrel. Uhhh yeah his gun was a .40 cal Glock 22. He thought since it said Glock 22 that meant 22 long rifle...SCARY! | ||
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| <ssleefl> |
Your welcome monty ------------------ | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
Eric- I didn't offer to help cause I wasn't there. (This was 257 AI's thread originally). I do like your way of thinking though. Agreed, if more guys did what you say, it would help all around.
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| <Gary Rihn> |
Another quick story like the last few... I was in a shop when a lady walked in & said she "wanted to buy a gun for her husband" for Christmas. ( We all immediately thought "Why couldn't *I* be married to her?! | ||
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| <257 AI> |
I have offered to help in the past and have found that either these guys don't want to show their ingorance and accept help or they will take the word of the salesman who wants to make a sale over the word of someone who is trying to be helpfull and make their shooting experience more enjoyable. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
quote: Made me laugh. I recently shot a couple of marauding deer for a landowner who rang up a couple of days later to ask if I could dress another one he had just shot with his .22. I was tempted to get all huffy but seeing as I had nothing better to do and he was a nice bloke he brought it round in his top of the range Cherokee and I did it for him. He was really excited and was proud when I told him that despite breaking the law it was a) a good buck and b)well shot in the head and c)yes he'd done the right thing by shooting it again to make sure of it. This guy got more excitement out of this than flying his helicopter. I got to remember my first deer and he's on the road to a custom rifle. If ever you can make a hunting convert of a wealthy man you're into a good thing. 'Care to come along to show me how to shoot the Red Deer on my estate?' is the invite I've had from someone who had a best custom rifle made from my gunsmith who consequently gave me one (not best though) at cost. | |||
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| one of us |
Hell I know some locals that were raised in Idaho, texas and Montana, been hunting all their life and still can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a base fiddle... These types actually condem the city dude with his big gun and big scope, while they run around in their pickup shooting up the country side.... Kinda like the song "The cowboy in the continental suit", goes like this "theres one thing and a sure thing I've learned since I been born, and thats every educated feller ain't a plumb greenhorn"...That about sez it all..... I hunt a lot of dudes, most do what I tell them and they shoot pretty darn good for the most part, except for Germans and Spainards..Can't hit squat, they have no place to practice. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Kind of opposites of these stories are the places where some salesman a.k.a. "newly christened expert" tries to convince one of the above Dudes that he needs this magnum rifle instead of that .308 to really put the deer down! He was trying to sell a 7STW to a guy that sat there and told him he hunts in the woods, which in GA means 75 yd shots max most of the time. I also like watching the expression on most salesman's faces when you talk to them and actually know a little about shooting, reloading, ballistics, bullet selection, etc...They look like they've seen a ghost or something cause they know they've got to curb the BS while your in hearing range or you might come over to debate with them. Mike ------------------ | |||
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| <500 AHR> |
I hope I am never in the same gunshop as some of you guys when I occassionally get one of my rifles bore sighted. I often swap scopes between some of my rifles (or just plain replace a scope) just for the hell of it and get them bore sighted (for free by an old friend) since I am too cheap to buy one myself. The reason I bore sight them is to get them close so I do not waste as much ammo getting them on paper. I guess however, that some of you may consider me to be no better than the poor slob that just walked in with is custom big bore and a Leupold scope to have it bore sighted. Obviously since I had the gun bore sighted I cannot shot it or hit anything at all. Give me a break. By the way, it is getting close to hunting season and I love to hang out at the local gunshops and watch all the crazy crap too. Some people are very scary and this goes for some of the salesmen as well. My personal favorite is the guy who is holding onto some .30 super magnum and asks how far will it shoot? And, will it kill a deer? And, is it accurate? And, etc, etc. To me the scary thing is not necesarrily the buyers ignorance, but the saleman that tells the guy it will shot about 400 - 600 yards, yes it will kill a deer, and it is very very accurate. This scares me because now this individual buys the rifle not realizing that it will kill to ranges well over two miles (although not accurately). So now you are in the woods with somebody lobbing rounds off over a hill top and you a couple miles away have bullets sailing through the timber around you...scary. Todd E | ||
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| <Chainsaw> |
Fellas, My wife outshot two Law Enforcement Officiers with her Kel-Tec P 11 handgun vs. thier Glocks at our range. She whipped them quite soundly. I was amazed to learn that they had only went shooting once this past year. I think that we as shooters have to promote gunownership, teaching firearm basic safety, and helping the young in our nation get started in the shooting sports. The little woman and I have seen many take their first shot at the range we built on our property. Many then in turn purchased their first firearm and some have gone onto hunting. | ||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting I was at the gun store today and..........
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). The guy asked what she wanted to get, and she said that her husband wanted a "30-06 3" Magnum". He politely explained that she apparently had combined two different guns, and tried to explain the difference to help her. She again repeated, a little firmer, that No, she wanted a 30-06 3" Magnum. Again, the guy politely tried to explain the difference (rifle vs shotgun, etc). With that she stomped out, huffing "Well, apparently you just don't HAVE what I need!" & out the door she went. We all just stood there for a moment before anyone said anything, then we laughed our butts off, thinking about her heading to another, obviously more intelligent, shop & putting another salesman thru the same routine. (BTW, our fantasies of being married to her evaporated as she stomped out the door!)