I know that there is a special forum for optics and I also posted this question there. But you can't seriously hunt deer without binocs, well not in the open spaces of Idaho anyway.
I would apreciate some comments from experienced hunters concerning real life performance.
I am currently shopping for some hunting glass and the budget will allow about $200. I want a set of 10X40 roof prism for their compact nature, and I also want them to be waterproof.
After looking at Cabelas' and Midway's catalogs, and a major sporting goods outlet locally, I like the looks of the Burris Landmark 10X40. Then I found them listed at SWFA for $100.
Will any other binocs in my price range offer better resolution or more durability?
Thanks for any help.

Idaho Shooter

Idaho, I was wondering for a long time whether I should reply to your post. I don't think I can provide you with the answer you'd like, and I'd hate to rain on your parade. Still, you asked for an opinion, so here goes.

If at ALL possible stay away from cheap optics (I know this sounds terrible) even more so cheap roof prism glasses! Porro prism glasses are cheaper to manufacture well, so if you can't spend a ton of cash, get a pair of porro prisms! Glasses of 10x are pretty specialized, and not all people can use them, 8x is the safer bet unless you KNOW you can handle 10x. Don't buy glasses according to what you see in catalogs, you'll have little idea how the glasses are in real life. Attempt to get the opportunity to try out several glasses, and compare, compare, compare. Just as an aside, because you seem to have caught onto this already: also don't buy "compact" binoculars, they are a lot harder to use than full size binocs!

Ok, having been negative long enough, what do I think you *should* do? If you want something you'll be happy with for a long time, I think you'll have to save for a while longer. Apart from the absolute top end of the market (glasses for life!) such as Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss, it is possible to get decent glasses lower down the price scale, but probably not at the $200 you had in mind. 3 options come to mind: Optolyth (porro prisms) 7x42 or 8x42 Alpine series, Minox 8x32 (roof) at around $500, Kahles 8x32 (roof) at about $550.

Midsouth runs a special on some Swarovski SLC 8x30 ($590 - roof). These are "last year's model", and don't have the very latest in prism coating, but a couple of years ago they were the state of the art, and you'll be happy with them for a lifetime. The price is 2-300 below what you would have paid a few years back.

Cabelas sell the old style Zeiss 10x40s (roof) for $700 - awesome glass!

As I said, I'm sorry I can't be more positive about what you suggest. Sad as it is, good optics don't come cheap! Save, wait and get something you'll be happy with for years to come!

- mike

[ 02-23-2003, 13:55: Message edited by: mho ]

Take a hard look at Steiner. Used by NATO and priced right.

I have to agree with the above posters.If you want cheap binoculars stick to porro prisms.Roof prisms need to be phase coated to prevent eyestrain and headaches and the roof prisms in your price range are not.

I have used a pair of 8x30 Landmarks for several years and found them to be very servicable . We bought our son-in-law a pair of Nikon Sporter II s and they also appear to be a decent glass . $150 online price . But you are not going to get anything waterproof in that price range .

The next step up are the Pentaxes and Nikon Monarchs , which can be had just over your price range . By all accounts they are very good , and very close to the Euro glass . Probably the best buy in binoculars .

[ 02-23-2003, 19:17: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

I just went through an exhaustive shearch for good quality Binos, I looked at Stieners, Lecias, Pentax, B&L, Nikons, Bushnell, Ziess, Swaroski's, and Fujinon. I had a pair of wonderful older B&L 7x50's that were stolen so I needed to replace them.
I ended up buying a full size Fujinon FMTRC-SX 7x50 with compass and M22 ranging reticle. I will cite my reasons for the purchase:
1. Quality of image and brightness, although not compact I have excellent glassing ability in the early morning and dusk, as well as the ability to see in to foliage and shadow. Any Bino will do well in the store or light of day...try using it looking into the underbrush and to get that last shot before the sun goes. The problem with compact binos is that they don't give you the light gathering ability of a full size pair, and that you get more eye strain and fatigue with the compacts than with a full size pair if you do extended glassing.
2. Construction, the Fujinons are made to Military/Marine standards (as are the Stieners) fully water-proof and nitrogen filled, However, they focus individually to have such durability. Also they are a bit on the heavy side due to their costruction, but are covered with a lifetime warranty. I decided that I would accept the weight as I needed the optical quality and durability, When you really hunt seriously you will do a LOT of glassing.
Price, any High quality bino is going to cost you, good glass costs. With that said however, I found that the european brands for identical performance ran several hundred dollars more than Japenese Glass. I compared the Stieners and Fujinons side by side and found the Fujinons a bit clearer and brighter in the dusk and twilight so they are the ones I purchased. Expect to pay in the $500.00 and up range to get really good optical quality.
Eye relief, I wear glasses so I needed extra eye relief some had it and some didn't, Bothe Stiener and Fujinon had long eye relief.
As for all the Extras (compass, Range finder) I like them for ranging targets as well as being able to tell my son or wife "look at bearing 255, 15 mils above the edge of the clearing and you'll see..." I learned to love the ranging reticle when I was in the ARMY and had a pair of M22's I spent weeks and weeks looking through glass and called an optical repair company and went and had them teach me the basics about Binoculars and lens technology before I purchased a pair and then I ask about the brand here on the board to see what people thought about the brand I was leaning toward. BTW the Stiener's that you buy on the open market are Mil-Spec but not Identical to the Military models, the military models have coatings to protect from lasers, the Civilian models don't.
Good luck in your shearch, you are looking for a tool that will serve you for many, many years to come. ultimatly pick the best pair that you can afford that you like and fit your needs well, also call around once you know what you want to get the best price.
Hans

I got the Pentax DCF WP's in an 8x42 for $225. I think that's about the best deal around right now. Excellent binocular for the money. Look in Cabela's, you'll see the same one for $450.

washington hunter, I bought those same binos through a website for $309 and thought I got a good deal....The same web site had the pentax DCF 8X42 HR for $209. are you sure the model you bought is the waterPROOF model?, if so thats a good deal and Idaho Shooter should give them a look...I didnt look through a lot of glasses because I need the extra eye relief even with out glasses!....so i only looked at glass with the specs that listed eye relief of at least 21mm

The difference in the pentax WP's and the HR's beside the waterfproofing, is that the WP have 4 lens elements in three groups in the objectives as opposed to the HR's 2 element lenses in one groups in the objectives......

Idaho shooter I agree that you probably will get a more durable bino in the same price range by going with Porro Prism glasses....the roop prisms designs are more supseptable to dammage and as such need to be made much better...but the reward is a smaller more slimline bino.....good luck....Bob

I have the Burris Landmarks in 10X40, so I can comment on that option. Although it's a decent binocular, I believe I would recommend against it for a couple of reasons. First, I think the 10X is just a bit much for the average user. It's quite open here in southern NM (much like Idaho) and I would rather have the 8X. Second, mine was returned once for some kind of internal failure (images didn't line up) after a couple of months. Burris was very good about and sent a new pair, no questions asked, but now after a couple of years (1 year warranty) they are showing the same symptoms. I will continue to use them, but only while I save for better glass.

I'm fond of Burris and their customer service, but I say keep looking. I'm not sure about the top-end Burris glass that's warrantied forever, you might look there. The Landmarks are made overseas and only imported by Burris, hence the 1 year warranty.

Good luck with your search.

Someone above gave you some advice that you really should consider, to wit: Test the binocs side by side, searching out the shadows. Most of the big bucks I have killed were found in the shadows--bedded. If they are where the light is good, you usually don't need binoculars unless you are trying to "grow the antlers" on a smaller buck. Secondly, I am rather dismayed at the recent turn of events as regards the marketing of hunting glass---I have used 10X glasses-once, and then I gave thm back to thier owner. Outside of magnification jiggles, they have limited depth-of-field (the distance range in focus, like 100-110 yds). A 7X binoc has a much "deeper" range. The best binoculars I had ever had were Nikon 7X50's--which became misaligned after 2 years. Clear has little to do with sturdy construction--I just didn't pay enough, and had to do it again. Alas, there are very few 7X50s anymore, so I bought a pair of Burris Fullfield 8X40s. These are 3 years old, at a bit above your 200, with a lifetime guarentee. A bit heavy, reasonably clear(not as good as the Nikons). Had I not had to buy 2 pair, I could have bought....Buy at the extreme edge of your budget--you don't have to replace....Chuck

I have to agree with Chuck. The most expensive gear you buy, is the stuff that turns out not to cut it in the end. My cheapest but most expensive binocs and scopes were always the ones that turned out to be inferior in the end - left in a corner. Pay for something right even it it really hurts now, it will only hurt you once. Amortize a pair of 600$ binoculars over 30 years, and the price does not seem unreasonable.
- mike

Roof prisms are always the most expensive as they are the harder to make due to lens alignment. So...
Next, do the math.
$200 retail less 15% mark up by the retailer = $170.
Now the distributor has to make a few points.$170 minus 7% = $158.10.
The maker has to make double in order to stay in business.
$158.10 divided by 1/2 =$79.05.
What do you think you will get for $80?
Might be best to duct tape a couple of Coke bottles together and try them. It will be about the same quality.
In optics you get what you pay for. Save up your money until you have some serious bucks and then...buy full size binocs, not compacts. Once you hunt with them for 20 years and you divide 20 into the dollar cost....they did not cost much after all.
Just no way to fudge on quality optics.

Just got a flyer from Deutche Optic in which they advertise Swiss Kern poroprisms for $150. I have a pair of these, and they are as good as my Zeiss and not much bigger. They may have them up on their web site. Take a look at them. I think they are the answer for low cost, quality binocs. Ku-dude

I think for the $$, you'd be hard pressed to beat the Bushnell Trophy series of binoculars.