The concept of the Nosler Partition is a soft nose that opens quite rapidly and a bulkhead that drives the bullet on through for deep penetration. It seems as though most of the premium bullets either favor expansion (Swift, TBBC, Bitteroot etc.) or penetration (Barnes X, Failsafe etc.). The Nosler seems to have both sufficient expansion and penetration for most chores.

Some premiums work well on large,heavy game but have mediocre performance on deer-size game. Some do tremendous damage if bone is crushed, but minimal damage when going through the ribs. The Nosler seems to be a good compromise for most all game situations.

Some of the premiums have a BC very similar to a brick and shed that much velocity that they cannot be counted on to open reliably at the longer ranges where the Nosler still works very
well.

Then there is the issue of accuracy. The current Noslers usually group quite well in most rifles, while some of the premiums are extremely finicky.

I have also found that I can use Noslers and Hornadies in the same rifle with virtually no change of POI (no cleaning out moly or copper first). They have similar flight characteristics as well.

Are the new premiums really any better than a partition for an all-round rifle that will see a variety of uses (I understand the need for specialized bullets and uses-though they cost more)??????????
I have been told by a Nosler technician that they feel the original partition is better than the "Gold," but they needed to come up with a bullet that held a nicer mushroom for sales purposes when comparing their bullet to other brands, hence they moved the bulkhead forward and strengthened the nose.

What are your thoughts?

For an accurate controlled expansion hunting bullet, Nosler reigns supreme. Swift A-Frames are a close second.

I think they are. They are not super bullets, however they will do what they say they will do, within their design range, every time. Since circa 1959, I have never had a terminal ballistics failure with a Nosler Partition bullet.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Do I feel the Nosler Partition is the standard for premium bullets? Definately. I have used them for a LONG time and they have always performed exceptionally well under all types of conditions.

I believe it could be a close race....but it is a long way to the finish line. More and more hunters are looking at other ways and means so to speak. It is and has been a very reliable bullet over the years, and remains so today.

The partition is one step in the development of a better bullet, bullets like the North Fork may become the "premium standard" in times to come. They certianly have a weight retention edge over the Nosler and the only edge the Nosler seems to have over them is a lower price.

[ 12-28-2002, 10:36: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

I was a little too choosy this season and wound up with no venison in the freezer until yesterday morning, which was my last day available to hunt this year.

I prefer thick cover so by the time I heard deer over my weak-side shoulder the lead doe in a group of four was already in the pine straw at the base of my stand. They came in on my scent trail and man were they careful! They came and checked the scrape about five yards from my ladder and all were head-bobbing me.

This went on about twenty minutes and I had decided that my only chance would be at the last in line as they were leaving.

That's what happened but my only shot was a raking shot on the last rib.

The doe ran about 75 yds with a good blood trail. She had a ghastly wound all the way down the outside of her ribcage and her front leg was nearly severed at the top.

What bullet was I using? Well there was a third hole in the center of her chest. The nose section of the 165gr Partition from my .308 had shorn off on impact at that glancing angle and made that long surface wound and wrecked the leg. The base had done the only thing it knew to do and went straight ahead into the vitals.

I shoot a lot of different bullets throughout the year. But I personally wouldn't consider going after whitetail with a sub .338 cal bullet that's not a partition style or bonded. There is no way I would have taken that deep a shot with an insert-tip non-bonded bullet. I would have no venison in the freezer.

Why limit your shot opportunities? They are few enough already. And the high-cost complaint of partitions is a real eye-roller. When a person who makes x-dollars per hour spends 10 hrs hunting he has invested 10x dollars (opportunity cost) in the hunt. Then he wants to save thirty cents on the bullet that will determine if he brings home meat? Gimme a break.

So if you're rolling your eyes thinking I'm just another partition groupie, guilty as charged.

A Federal Hi-shok, Hornady, Remington, or PP would have worked as well. Deer arent'e that hard to kill. You make out as if Partitions are NECESSARY. They aren't.

I've hunted for over 30 years with Nosler Partitions and have never had a bullet do anything at all but perform perfectly every single time.

I use them for everything from whitetail to elk and wild hogs and they are incredibly accurate and they do the job on any game at any angle with good expansion AND penetration.

If I ever get to go to Africa I'll likely be shooting them for plains game but if I get to hunt DG then I might use another bullet.

Until then... Make mine a Partition!!!!

btw.. I've even had to kill a few feral dogs and coyotes with them too (while deer hunting) and they even expand well there too... The all around game bullet is the Partition!!!

$bob$

Nosler Partition bullets have always performed as advertised on game from light thin skinned jumper (deer) to bull moose. There are probably other bullets now that perform just as well or better but l have confidence in these bullets so l will continue to use them.

Have a good one!!!!

Partitions are a fine compromise bullet but they sure are not an end all, do everything bullet.
Whitetails are not particularely hard to kill if the shot placement is correct. Think of how many deer have been quickly killed by classic old Rem CoreLock 30-30 bullets.
I have found that non-premium bullets from Sierra, Hornady, Speer and others are all quite capable of quickly and humanely taking whitetails and they are cheap and accurate.
In my experience, the quickest dropping whitetails fell to a Sierra 120gr spitzer fired at maximum speed from my 7mm WBY. I only took broadside lung shots but the results were impressive. Deer that I have shot with a 140gr Barnes XBT @ 3,500 ft/sec, from my 7STW, walked or ran a short distance before they died. Deer that were hit with a Nosler 140gr B-Tip bullet (at the same speed) often had huge holes in their chests and went no where. These bullets are incredibly accurate and have high BC's if that is important to you.
With the exception of the X bullets, all the other bullets mentioned are much cheaper than the Partition and usually shoot better as well.
I shot a few deer with Failsafe bullets in the .308. This bullet is far sturdier than necessary for whitetails but did kill quite well.
Although I do like the Partitions, I never liked the fact that they shed much too much weight when encountering the light to medium resistance of a whitetail.
VH

I have shot the Nosler Partitions for 30 years, with no failures. Deer, Caribou, Elk, Brown Bear, Moose, have all fallen to my Nosler Partition reloads. Deer sized game can be successfully taken with any good bullet, I still use the Noslers on them. I shoot many rifles, and all of them will pick a bullet they like over all others. My .300 Winny likes the 180 grain Nosler Partition. My .257 Wby like the 115 and 120 grain Nosler Partition. My 7mm STW likes a Barnes 160 grain XLC, a .340 Wby likes the 225 grain Barnes XLC and the same size North Fork. Another .340 Wby likes the 250 grain Nosler Partition Gold and any North Fork. My .358 STA's like the 250 and 280 grain Swift A-Frames and North Fork's of 225, 250, and 270 grain. Yes the Nosler Partition is still the standard by which all others are measured, but perhaps your rifle will shoot something else equally as good or better, it is up to you to shoot enough to find that bullet your barrel likes. The Nosler Partition is not the only game in town anymore, but it is still an excellent choice, and always will be. I will say that for me, the North Fork has shot with pin point accuracy in everything I have shot it through, and I certainly have no worries about it failing once it is shot into a dangerous game animal. Good shooting.

For Big Game Hunting in North America you compromise nothing by using Nosler Partitions! They are the most lethal, dependable, accurate, consistant performing and readily available Hunting bullet EVER to come along! I have killed Moose, Elk, Mule Deer, Whitetailed Deer, Blacktailed Deer, Mountain Goats, Bears and Antelope with them with not one Partition bullet performing poorly! The majority of the Big Game animals I have harvested with Partitions have been with one shot! The Nosler Partitions consistently impart lethal energy and stopping power on Big Game with never an unexplained "pass through" or surface explosion like I have witnessed on numerous other "quality" Hunting style bullets. Nosler Partitions are my absolute #1 choice when Hunting Mt. Goats and Bears - when it is vital the animal be knocked down and kept down. I have been in on the kill of 22 Mt. Goats and in addition killed 4 of my own. The Nosler Partitions anchor the Goats while other "quality" Hunting bullets often FAIL in this regard! Anchoring a Mt. Goat is extremely important as a staggering Goat is likely to stagger over a cliff. The last 4 Bears I have killed also were one shot quick kills with the Nosler Partitions! In the thick brush of SE Alaska, norhtern Idaho, western Washington and NW Montana this is extremely desirable!
In regards to accuracy I find the Nosler line of bullets are ALL pleasingly accurate. When I get a new Big Game Rifle the Nosler Parttions are the first (and only - so far) bullet I try. They are easy to find accurate loadings for and when I buy another box of the same bullets a few years later they perform exactly like the previous ones! Try this with other so called "premium" Hunting bullets. I have watched my Hunting partners struggle with other so called "premium" Hunting bullets over the decades and quietly and confidently extoll to them the virtues and consistency of the Nosler Partitions. Eventually they use them and see the accuracy and lethality of the Partitons and they usually stick with them.
I began using Nosler Partitons in my handloaded Big Game ammunition in 1964 having taken at least 200 head of Big Game with them in Alaska, British Columbia, Alberta, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Oregon and Washington and, have observed first hand the shooting of at least twice that many other heads of Game - I would not consider purchasing anything but Nosler Partitons for my Big Game pursuits! Trailing wounded Big Game that should have been cleanly killed only took a few occurences and those incidents prompted me to try and convince my Hunting partners to use Partitions in the future!
If you want accuracy, consistant performance, lethality and availability in a Big Game bullet then Nosler Partitions are your best bet!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmintguy,

After that glowing testimonial I think I might just go out and buy another couple of boxes of those Partitions.
VH

Any time I am developing a round for big game hunting, partitions will be included in the test. They may not be my preferred bullet any more (Failsafes), but their performance on game is outstanding.

I think the point is that you are never wrong whe with NP's. The same bullet will work equally as well on TX whitetails as it will on elk. In one case you want violent expansion in the other you want deep penetration. The NP does both with boring regularity.

Gentlemen

A very short reply is: Hell yes they are

I always had a great deal of luck with them and keeps a few boxes for each of my rifles just in case. A house without partitions is not a home of a gun nut

I wonder when they will launch a bonded version of the PT? Swift will get a hard time when that happends

Is there a web site for North Fork bullets

/ JOHAN

Gentlemen,

I only use Nosler Partitions. I use the 175 gr. 7mm in my 7mm Rem Mag at approx. 3000 fps. This has worked on everything from blacktails to eland. The bullet has done it's job on two one-shot kills on 2000 lb. eland, and that is a pretty good testimony for me.

It has also performed perfectly on many different species of North American and African game, both up-close and far away.

I don't need any more proof than that.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Johan-
North Fork Bullets does not have a website. I'm sure there are several folks here that have their phone number handy, I don't or I'd list it for you in this post.
The Nosler is still a great design and due to cost as well as years already attained in the market place, it will likely never be topped in sales or overall popularity. It is not the be all or end all in bullet performance, I doubt any bullet is or ever will be. But it is a good design and works as planned.
The North Fork is reputed by several to be a super bullet, I can offer no opinion on that because I've yet to shoot anything with one! I have shot them in my 300Wby and they can make little bitty groups, every bit as small as the rifle's pet load that uses a 200gr NOSLER. I hope to try them next fall on real game.
My 375Wby has had a sample of the North Fork flavor but apparently doesn't like them as well as it should, by all accounts. Nothing tried yet gives under a 2" group, and that isn't good enough to beat out the other contenders for everyday use.

The North Fork information is -- North Fork Technologies, Inc. P.O. Box 1689, Glenrock, Wyoming 82637, Phone 307-436-2726, Fax 307-436-5780

YES.

Yep, Nosler Partitions are the Standard by which all other bullets are compared. Some cost less and others cost way more. You can't for the most part do better, sure some shoot better in some rifles , hold a little more weight . The Nosler Partition is also the reason there are so many really good bullets around.

John S & phurley

Thanks for the info, I can't wait to get my hands on them

have they been causing any high pressures or fouling badly?

Thanks again,

/JOHAN

My experience with Partitions is limited to three animals, but I think the contrast is interesting. On a Springbok, which weighs less than 100 pounds, the 30-06/.308/180 at 2875 fps, 200 yard shot, hit the heart and there was a spray of blood behind the buck. Devastating expansion on a small animal. On a large Kudu, the same bullet went all the way through, behind the shoulder, took out a fair amount of the heart, and dropped him a few yards away. On a raking shot on an Impala, the bullet had to go through about 1.5 feet of grass in the stomach, then through the heart and broke the far shoulder.

The ability to violently expand in light animals and also penetrate on raking shots or on heavy game is quite a tribute to the Nosler.

The 180 Failsafe did as well on Gemsbok and Wildebeest, but for all around use the Nosler seems hard to beat.

Dear Guys,

No question but that the Nosler Partition is a standard to go by. The NP performance is absolutley predictable. The bullet will shed everything in front of the partition and retain everything behind it. We would all do OK if it was the only bullet available.

Having said that, I don't use it much for my hunting. I started using Bitterroot bullets back in about 1972 or 73 and have been using them since that time for my hunting. The only problem I have ever found with them is getting them. Over the years though, I've accumulated enough to do me the rest of my hunting life. If I couldn't get Bitterroot bullets or if I should run out of them, the Swift bullets, Trophy Bonded, Fail Safe and several other bullets would probably do the job just as well. So would the Nosler Partition.

Tom

Tsquare-
I love those Bitterroots as well, just a shame old Bill can't turn many of them out. Today with all the other choices available I'm not as concerned about it!

I like woodleigh's, I have not had experience with Nosler Partitions, but the woodleigh's hang together unreal on the stuff I have shot.

Yep!! fer now

JOHAN -- Just the opposite, less pressures and fouling than other bullets. They provide an information slip with each box of bullets stating that they can be loaded with approx. 5% less pressure than other bullets. The grooving presents less area to the rifling, therefore you have less fouling. Good shooting.

"North Fork Bullets have been tested on pressure recording equipment and it has been found that they require, on average, 3 to 4 % less powder to produce factory velocities and pressures. Individual rifles can vary + or - 5% from that norm so it would behoove any user of this product to reduce top loads by at least 8% and then work up loads with an appropriate powder from a reputable manual until the velocity equals a factory load, with the same bullet weight, fired from your individual rifle. In this way you will achieve top velocities at safe pressures."

phurley-
The above writing is from the info sheet that comes with each box of North Fork bullets. There is no mention of reduced pressures in that statement. In fact, what he is telling you is that these bullets will typically develope more pressure for a given amount of powder! That is why they develope similar velocities with lower charge weights!
I have spoken at length with Mike Brady about this topic, and he was very adamant in wanting me to bring this issue to light, because of folks like yourself saying just what you did in your last post.
You cannot have more velocity with less pressure, it doesn't work that way. Pressure equals velocity, simple as that.

John S.; I don't normally get involved in ballistic discussions because I'm no engineer but it does seem to reason that if you had two bullets of the same weight driven down the same barrel with equal pressure, that is, each bullet shot separatly with equal charges of powder, that the bullet with enough diameter to seal off the expanding gases(obturate?)but with less friction than the other bullet as it traveled down the barrel would be traveling faster than the bullet with the greater amount of friction. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the idea behind the moly-coated bullets or the blue coating on the XLC line of the Barnes bullets? According to their literature, you get more velocity for each grain of powder because of the decreased friction or better yet, you can use slightly increased weights of powder because of the decreased friction.

I gave the guy at North Fork a call today and got the catalog and prices sent to me. How are these guys price wise?

Partition has set the standard. IMO, they have the perfect combination of terminal ballistics and penetration needed to take any game given proper calibre and shot placement. Launching the front core for energy transfer and retaining the rear core for penetration. Excellent.

There are many ways to skin a cat. While they were first to market, there are some others that are producing different designs that will accomplish the same thing.

88-
If you launch two bullets of identical weight down the bore of a rifle, the one with the least amount of friction will produce the least amount of pressure, and consequently the least amount of velocity. Your mention of moly coating serves to illustrate what I'm trying to say.
When I started using moly on my varmint rifle bullets, I immediately saw a decrease in velocity with my loadings. After asking several others about this I found they saw the same effect and had to bump their powder charges to get the speeds back up to previous levels. I did this too and found similar results.
Given that, did the moly increase the velocity AND lower the pressure? No. It did lower the pressure, but the velocity went down as well. In return for this, you get to add MORE powder to achieve the same results! What a bargain...
Moly was/is touted because it reduces copper fouling. That is it's main benefit, and that is somewhat of a mixed bag because moly fouling is no bed of roses in and of itself. I prefer to deal with copper fouling, as does Kenny Jarrett and a host of other respected gunmakers and shooters.
I suspect Barnes added their blue coating because the X bullets foul bores very badly in most cases, and that means bad reviews. Also, due to their larger physical size and monometal design they also tend to increase pressures with a given charge, compared to conventional bullets. The coating slicks them up so they create less fouling AND less pressure.
I suggest giving Mike Brady a call about this. He has an Oehler pressure system and has done a lot of testing in various calibers and barrels. No smoke and mirrors, just honest data.

Speed and pressure decrease with moly coating is not a significant factor. The reduction in pressure does not come from the reduced friction, but from the lower flame temperature as some of the moly vaporises in the bore. Now there is the advantage of moly coating. Lower temperature in the throat equals less flame cutting and longer barrel life. Also, reduced engraving force will allow the pressure to peak later in the bore, spreading the initial temperature rise over a larger surface area. This is good. Bottom line is that moly will extend the barrel life and reduces fouling, allowing longer strings before accuracy goes away. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of the "problems" associated with moly come from the other stuff that is used to seal the moly coating. I do not understand why one would want to remove all the moly from the bore anyway. It was put there to serve a purpose in the first place. Like the paint on a car that should not be removed by the car wash?

Having done pressure gun (piezo electric sensors delivering a signal linearly propotional to absolute pressure) testing with coated bullets ... I would interpret the data to say that coatings reduce the pressure required to move the projectile into the throat of the firearm. This occurs more rapidly than normal due to reduced friction. Thus the space into which the powder is burning increases more rapidly than normal resulting in lower pressures.

Bore residence time is reduced as one would expect. The difference was measurable in our rig which had sensors just in front of the chamber at 16" down the bore.

Ain't got nothin' to do with flame temperatures at all. That may be a side effect, but it is not likely to be the cause.

The fact that flame temperature is lower with moly present in the combustion process was established by Harold Vaughan and reported in Rifle Accuracy Facts P 230 to 234. He placed 0.07gr moly in the powder charge behind uncoated bullets and got the same reduction in pressure and speed as with moly coated bullets. He also fired coated and uncoated bullets alternatively and the results supported no residual effect of moly from coated to uncoated shots.

[ 12-31-2002, 11:28: Message edited by: Gerard Schultz ]