My previous location required that copper bullets be used for all hunting. I made a switch to Barnes and when I got a deal from Midway I purchased a large quanity of XLC's in my two most used calibers. Because of this I have taken the last several deer with a .25-06 using the Barnes 115gr XLC.

This fall I am hunting a new species in a new local with the same ammo as before. I managed to take my first ever Whitetail. I'm about out of the XLC's but really don't think I'll be buying any more.

Accuracy is ok with them though not as good as several others. It's the terminal performance that I question. I don't get quicker kills, blood trail on the last two didn't start for about twenty yards or more.

So here's the buck.


Here is the wound on the entry side.


Here is the exit. I cut away the flap of meat over the hole as it was absolutely mushy with bloodshot.


And this was the mess under the shoulder.


The shoulder was pretty much a total loss. From the damage I'm getting I think I'll be going back to 120gr. Hornady HP's. Nate

I have never tried XLC bullets, but in my experience TSX and the old X, ruin less meat than traditional bullets. I also find that its very hard to draw conclusions on this matter as where and what you hit is so important. Hitting bones mean trouble.

I dont think the 25-06 is ideal to meat damage. Slower is better.

What is the muzzle velocity ? What was the range ? You have to pick the right bullet for the circumstances. For example the 270 130gr should not be used within 100 yds -too much damage.

You will ruin less meat with the Barnes than other bullets. In your particular case you hit a lot of bone at very high speed on a young deer. The TSX's wil give you much better accuracy than the XLC. As far as the blood trail goes you must remember you are only shooting a 25 cal, they are not known for leaving a lot of blood behind. I shoot a 257 Roberts with the TSX and love it for deer and hogs. As with any caliber, if you hit the heart you will have good blood where as lung shots typically have to fill the chest before it stars to leak out.

Perry

Not sure what happened there, buty I have never had an "X" bullet or a "TSX" do that kind of damage.

From the picture, it looks like the hit was a little far back and the blood I am seeing on the carcass will clean off and don't really see that much excessive damage.

We use 115 grain "TSX" out of my wife's 257 Robert's and never have that type results.

I think slowing the bullets down a little and going with the "TSX" instead of the "XLC" will solve the problem(?).

Also the angle of the shot may have played a role. The exit hole is shown, but not the entrance hole was the shot taken as the animal was quartering to the shooter with the initial hit being toward the front part of the right shoulder?

One thing strange about the pictures, in the first two, the exit hole is on the left side of the body. In the second two, the exit hole appears to have moved over to the right side of the carcass?????

Let me try to fill in a couple answers. The velocity I don't know as I don't have a chrono but I am using a healthy dose of RL22. Distance was only about 75 yards.

The first picture is the entry wound on the left side. Animal quartering away. The exit was just through the shoulder muscle. Yes the shot was a few inches back of what I prefer, but I wasn't going to get the luxury of a shot with him standing still. I had to shoot offhand at a moving animal, quartering away, slightly below me, with the animal climbing a hillside. So although not perfect placement I don't feel bad about it either.

The amount of bloodshot meat is as real as the picture shows. This picture was taken after it had been washed with a hose, skinned, and hung for several days.

I guess I hear all the "I can eat right to the hole" comments but thats not been my experience at all. I have taken deer with the original X in .257 Roberts, XLC's out of the 7mm RM and .25-06, and the only one that wasn't messy was one taken at a severe angling away that entered at the back of the lung and exited in front of the shoulder at the top of the brisket. Everyone that exits though the offside shoulder is a mess.

I don't think I'll live long enough to kill enough animals to reach conclusions about every possible bullet combo but by coming here I can share my experiences and learn from others. At this point I'm not sure I like the Barnes bullets any better than if not less than some of the old reliable ones.

I have several bags of Nosler E-tip seconds in .308" 180gr. that I have yet to even load. But if they work like the Barnes I may pass them on to others. Is the TSX really different? It seems to me the X bullets open pretty quick if they open at all, and the front must fall off at high velocity.

Maybe I'm expecting to much from these new super bullets. Nate

P.S. About picking the "right" gun for the range, I was looking accross an area offering up to 350 yards of possibilities. The deer I took came through underneath me in the draw and out of sight. Then came up through the trees on my side. It is just the nature of hunting to be offered a shot you don't expect.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigNate:

I have several bags of Nosler E-tip seconds in .308" 180gr. that I have yet to even load. But if they work like the Barnes I may pass them on to others. Is the TSX really different? It seems to me the X bullets open pretty quick if they open at all, and the front must fall off at high velocity.

Maybe I'm expecting to much from these new super bullets. Nate



Interesting statement???

I have killed hundreds if not thousands of animals with the TSX and have never had one fail to open. Yes they do open quickly as to inflict as much truama as possible. Remember an aminal dies by blood loss so more truama means a "more" lethal bullet. A TSX is designed to open quickly, expand to 2x diameter, retain 100% weight and penetrate deep. You couple all these characteristcs and you do have a "super" bullet BUT it is still just a bullet. Bear in mind you hit a young animal, quartering, with high velocity. There is going to be blood shot meat. My finding have been that the TSX and similar bullets create less blood shot meat at the periphery (sp?)but more tissue damage close the wound channel resulting in quick incapacipation.

"..front must fall off.." I guess you are referring to the TTSX. Never heard of one coming off BUT even if it did you would zero change in impact and performance at 200 yards.

Hope this helps. Happy Thanksgiving.

Perry

]

If you use a Hornady hollowpoint, you will really understand what bloodshot meat is. Stay with the Barnes. The velocity is the culprit, not the bullet.

My experience with the Barnes XLC in 25-06 is very limited. I shot an Antelope at about 200yds with the 100gr XLC. I hit it on a broadside shot and didn't hit the shoulder. I only took out a rib on exit so there was little meat lost. The insides were destroyed though. I think the 75yd shot was the culprit in your situation. The reason I loaded the Barnes was because the previous year I used a 100gr Sierra Game King and shot a deer at about 100yds and completely destroyed the offside shoulder. I was hoping to avoid that with the Barnes in .25-06. I have since moved to Nevada where it is nearly impossible to draw any tag.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Not sure what happened there, buty I have never had an "X" bullet or a "TSX" do that kind of damage.

From the picture, it looks like the hit was a little far back and the blood I am seeing on the carcass will clean off and don't really see that much excessive damage.

I am with you on this crazyhorse. I see a lot of blood that wasn't cleaned off but I don't see that much blood shot meat. Once you start cleaning it up you will be amazed at how much of that blood is just on the surface. True blood shot is when the blood is driven into the meat. That looks like it is on top. Ron

Photo described as entry wound, looks to me like bullet tumbling. Just my observation.

Nothing wrong with the bullet. All shot placement. Judging from the entrance pic and your description of quartering away I am thinking two if not three ribs were impacted. Bone shrapnel can cause as much damage as bullet shrapnel. Too many people don't factory in the effects of hitting bone no matter what bullet they are using. On the exit side most of that blood should wipe right off. Just finished cutting a front shoulder that looked just like that. Blood was just on the surface between the different membrane layers, meat was just fine. This deer was shot with a 140 grain ballistic tip 7mm. I had an exit hole as big as a tennis ball. A half inch from the exit was a second hole that was about 30 caliber. First hole lined up perfectly with the missing rib bones from the entrance. Unless you put a bullet between two rib bones and hit no other bone all bets are off as too the amount of damage you are going to cause.

Nate

I hear the whitetails upthere are going gang busters in the panhandle this year.
The others are right about the blood, there dont seem to be much bloodshot.
I avoid hitting the shoulder unless it is getting dark or in steep country because hi-velocity does make a mess when bone gets in the way.


Sure wish I wa sup there this week .


Congrats on your first whitetail buck

Cal30

All the bullets today are about the same from a practicle standpoint..

As to bloodshot meat and meat damage, that is the effect of too much velocity, slow the bullet down and reduce damage..I can make a Barnes X do tremoundous bloodshot damage with a 25-06 or even my 6x as I can make the sizzle..or I can slow the bullet down to about 2800 FPS and they kill well but not alway instantly but you get good blood trails as expansion is very good, and I don't have to deal with the damage..My perfect combo on deer is the 286 gr. Nosler in my 9.3x62, it kills well and you can eat almost to the hole..They might run up to 50 or so yards sometimes but they bleed profusely and a blind man could follow them..I get the same effect with a 375 and 300 gr. bullets..

The other factor to consider is hitting bone, like the shoulders, or spine then a 25-35 will cause bloodshot meat..shoot them behind the shoulder, blood shot deer ribs are acceptable...

Judging from what I can make out of the photos, especially the 2nd one with the hide still intact, it seems like there may be a lot of "blood" damage as opposed to tissue damage. I would suggest that possibly what happened is that it pumped a lot of blood before it succombed. Bled to death, rather slowly.. Maybe..??

I also agree that the wound looks about 8 or 10 inches rearward of a more optimal placement..

FWIW Ive had more one shot/bang flop kills on deer with plain old speer hot cores than anything.. That is with a variety of velocities, from about 2200 fs up to 3100. Same results.

I'm not a white tail hunter, but from countless years of reading about them and talking with people...I just don't see a need for premium bullets to kill them. EXCEPT....in your case, when you are using a high velocity round and you get close. A HP or softer plastic tip bullet would have likely done some very extensive damage, more then you are seeing there. The tougher bullets won't "blow up" on an animal when shot close at high velocity.

Like you said, always plan for the shot you don't WANT to take ideally, because its more likely that is what you get.

Is a monometal bullet right for the job? Hard to tell, seems to have done you ok up until now. On the other hand, its fun experimenting with new stuff! Maybe use a stronger bullet, but not a mono? The 110gr Accubond or Interbond (I THINK those are coming out, could be the GMX) might be just the right ticket, best of both worlds.

Oh and congrats on your first white tail buck!