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300 SMK used for a 1 shot kill on this 5X5 Bull Elk at 320 yards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RD29c6w40w Complete story here http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php.../207627/#Post2594405 _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | ||
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A neck shot and one animal doesn't prove a thing. Heck, a 40 grain .22 LR into the spine will drop that same bull with the same authority. Does that qualify that 40 grain piece of lead as an elk bullet?  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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You gotta be kidding. You really didn't get enough of arguing about bullet performance on that TSX thread over at the campfire? | |||
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It just proves Ron White is right, "You can't fix stupid".  Don't let so much reality into your life that there's no room left for dreaming. | |||
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What's funny is that jwp475 has NO connection to the elk that was killed. He is just linking to someone else's thread on another forum entirely -- stirring the pot without anything in it, if you will. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I thought about typing a legitimate reply, but it would be akin to conversing with a brick wall.  It would be a waste of my time, not to mention a waste of bandwidth. ANd it seems like the others agree as well. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Ron White is correct it seems _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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jwp475, I don't have a dog in this fight, but perhaps it is a bit over the top to put this in the context of "proper shot placement". Here is a quote from the original thread over on 24HourCampfire:
I'm really happy for this guy's dad, he may be getting on a bit, but he got his elk this year. Power to him! By the sound of it, though, it was probably more a case of flinching in the right direction, or having the elk walk into the bullet... Getting older or not, I don't know of that many people who consciously take neck shots at 320 yards under field conditions. But maybe I'm wrong, and it is all part of this newfangled "range it,check the wind, dial in correction,aim,sqeeze and only one shot" business?? - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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This topic has been beaten to death so many times that the flies have never left. So again, WHAT DOES ONE ANIMAL PROVE? You have no connection to the elk, there is NO mention of bullet performance -- and it was a neck shot. The same results could have been had with an array of calibers and a ton of bullets. But what if that SMK landed on the center of the shoulder? Is it designed to handle that type of impact and maintain its integrity? What if it slipped between ribs? Is it designed for proper expansion at extended ranges? Sierra says it is not. Plenty of testing by many individuals shows the same -- that it is a poor choice. Yes, it may give spectacular results one time but fail miserably the next. We owe it to the animals we hunt to use the proper tools for the job so that a quick, humane kill is the result. A Sierra MatchKing is NOT a proper tool for big game. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Bobby--kind of doubt you have killed as many animals over 250lbs as I have but I could be wrong. Never had I had a SMK fail to bring one down -- the trick is using the right SMK for the job as they are all different. It will take some research but it can be done. Killed a 2 over the last couple of weeks with a 1 shot kill using 150SMK(posted pics of one of the little devils on another thread). Was going to use the 250SMK on another but the big nasty got into a creek before I could get on him--maybe get a few more after Turkey day. Will agree that for the general public that just go and pick a SMK to use may not be the best thing to do. For the record, have in the past had more than one BT fail miserably in the field and many consider those to be a hunting bullet. It is all about the application and that includes MV, possible impact range (I have rifles that will make a Nosler Partition fail if used improperly), and the type of animal being hunted. For that matter doing the due diligence with any bullet requires that criteria to be considered.  | |||
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300 Grain SMK recovered from a Utah Moose  Going out on a limb herte, but I'm pretty sure that it was recovered from a "Dead Moose" Another 1 shot kill with a 300 Grain SMK  The lungs from the above Elk  And your experience with them? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Boss Hoss; You have mentioned on a couple of threads that some SMK's are different...i.e., designed with terminal ballistics in mind, instead of just accuracy. Not doubting you, but just curious. Why would Sierra design some of their SMK's with hunting in mind, and others with only accuracy in mind? Seems like it would not make economic sense. Just doesn't make sense to me, can you help? jwp475: On this board you are arguing SMK's, on another boad you are arguing TSX's. Always seems to degenerate into name calling. May I suggest that you chill, it's only a hobby. | |||
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First I never made any such statement about the SMK being designed for ANYTHING but accuracy. Please slowly read what I have written and then comment as in this case you are making yourself not look very smart. I also sent you a PM on this about 2 weeks ago if memory serves. I just so happens that by COENCIDENCE that some of the SMK bullets work well in hunting applications because of core composition and jacket thickness which also includes the taper ratio compared to a GK for example. There is a lot to this that you are not fully grasping so go back as I said earlier and reread the posts I have made on the subject. | |||
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The Sierra book flatly states that the SMK is not recommended for hunting. Even Ray Charles can see that. All ya wanna do is stir the pot. Why are you or anyone else, trying to prove the manufacturer wrong. I have little respect for anyones ethics if they use them for hunting. The only exception might be for someone wanting to save the fur when varmint hunting. Bear in Fairbanks  Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes. I never thought that I'd live to see a President worse than Jimmy Carter. Well, I have. Gun control means using two hands. | |||
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Simple-----you are not informed. This is a long and detailed saga and you do not have all of the facts. | |||
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BH: I stand corrected...I misread your posts. Probably not the last time that I wll make myself not look very smart. OK, correct me if I am wrong (we've already established that my reading comprehension is not too good), but it sounds like you would only recommend a few of the SMK's such as the 250 or 300gr in 338, the 190gr in 308, and the 142gr in 6.5MM. And you primarly shoot at long ranges, say 350+. Would that be correct? | |||
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Boss Hog wrote:
I probably haven't. I'm estimating I've only killed about 40-45 animals that went 250 or over. With weights over 200, the number is only around 75-80...hardly worth mentioning amongst present company as I'm sure that pales in comparison to your numbers. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Yes sir that would be correct. | |||
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How many of those of those kills were with SMK's? | |||
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Bear in Fairbanks wrote:
How true. And he can "see" that because Ray Charles isn't nearly as bullheaded as some posters tend to be!  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Like I said before --- some people are not aware of the background information of the SMK. With the financial ramifications associated with any recommendations of the SMK for hunting by Sierra would cost the aforementioned millions in lost sales to one of its best customers the USG. You are doing a good job of stirring the pot BTW!!  | |||
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Boss Hog- If you'll research the thread (I am not doing it for you), you'll find that a few years ago on this board, this same debate surfaced. And one proponent of the SMKs basically called me an idiot when I said the MKs don't always expand. He said "put up or shut up" and that he'd give $100 to the first person who posted a photo of a recovered, unexpanded MatchKing. Let's just say this fellow was at least a man of his word and sent me the $$ when I quickly posted those photos of the 6.5mm, 140 grainers. (I've tested about every bullet out there, by the way.) They can't even expand in test medium on a consistent basis. Thus, I have the intelligence to choose a BETTER bullet for game. 'Nuff said. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your experience. | |||
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Tomahawk, All that I will say about this is that my information comes from the source. Have killed too many of the little evil tusked creatures along with assorted deer, aoudad, varmints including some pretty big dogs over 100lbs and coyotes to doubt certain SMK's abilities. Never had a failure to kill an animal that I hit period with a SMK. The empirical data that I have amassed indicates a different conclusion than yours. I am glad you are so intelligent please do carry on sir. Have A Nice Day. | |||
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As posted by Saeed here https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/234103709/p/1 [/QUOTE]Saeed Administrator Posted Nov 18, 11:24 AM Hide Post We were going to go on safari to South Africa in 2002. And as on a previous hunt there, we found that sometimes one has to take rather long shots at some animals. So we built a rifle specially for this purpose, and chambered it for our 30/404 wildcat. I tried differnt makes of 180 grain bullets in it, and we got over 3400 fps with all of them with very good accuracy. So, in the interest of testing, I loaded several different types of 180 grain bullets in it. Including the Sierra Match Kings. Our first hunting area was in Zululand, for zebra, reedbuck and nyala. All of these were shot at relatively close range. I used the 180 grain Match King bullets, and all worked very well. They did fall apart, but not any more than normal soft points as loaded by the factories. As a matter of choice, I prefer bullets that hold together and penetrate rather than those that expand explosively for hunting. But if my only choice is between Match Kings or normal factory soft point, I would pick the Match Kings. www.accuratereloading.com [/QUOTE] _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Why do some posters resort to an ethics arguement in these threads? If the bullet killed the animal quickly, where do ethics come into play????  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Before we knew better,25 years or so ago,we used SMK exclusively for deer hunting.We bought a few boxes of 165 gr 308 on clearance that lasted for years.With them we brought home quite a few deer.Seems like there were a few instances of less than stellar performance,both over expansion and no expansion,but always killed with good placement.After our few hundred were gone,we moved on to other brands and calibers of bullets Even back then,they werent recommended for hunting. ****************************************************************** SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM *********** | |||
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Sierra has hunting bullets in the same calibers and similar weights as their match bullets. These bullets are usually as accurate as their Matchkings, so there is no reason to hunt with the match bullets. I say this not as someone who has hunted with match bullets, but as someone who has shot matches with hunting bullets. | |||
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i agree!  | |||
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Well first off he never flinched and he hit where he was aiming, and the elk never walked into the bullet either and if you even watched the video you would have seen that. I’m sure you don’t know many people that can shoot well enough to take neck shots at 320 yards few can and these old guy is one of them that can. Than again he wasn’t shooting an off the rack Wall-Mart special either. The only thing you have correct in your post is… maybe I'm wrong, and it is all part of this newfangled "range it, check the wind, dial in correction, aim, squeeze and only one shot" business?? | |||
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I don't get it. Barnes, Nosler and several other bullet maufacturers offer bullets that are very accurate and have proven performance on game. Sierra sells a bullet that while is also very accurate, the advise from the manufacturer is to not use it on game. And theres folks here that insist they know the only true path, they have the inside scoop, they are the only one to have all the facts, education and experience. These Enlightened Ones have been ordained by God to lead the unwashed masses into the Light using SMK's for hunting. I guess I can only conclude the internet is a wonderful invention as it allows us to be blessed by the presence and pontifications of the Enlightened Ones. | |||
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I happen to know a bit about Bullets, Hunting and the US Government. But, I sure do not understand the above statement.  | |||
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Please read the JAG White Paper and THEN think about what would happen if all of that was put into jeopardy by the marketing folks at Sierra. Now think about that and get back to me. | |||
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On the contrary --- just shows that some are not motivated to seek out and use this type of information. May be that one does not posses the necessary skills, relationships, intelligence, or experience to garner and utilize this type of information. Please carry on. | |||
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Thankyou Boss for the motivation. I just can't believe I've made it all this time without the guidance from a faceless nameless, placeless, person, (if in fact you are a person,) such as yourself. Carrying on as directed. | |||
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Come to the SHOT or the ACGG-SCI show and I will help you to understand --- then it will all become clear. | |||
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What a pointless, wheel spinning thread. I can't believe that I wasted my time on this pos. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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