The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Does Anybody Use Sierra Gamekings For Elk?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Does Anybody Use Sierra Gamekings For Elk? | Login/Join |
| one of us |
This fall will be my first elk hunt. From all that's been said about how elk can soak up some lead, I was wondering if the Gamekings are OK? All that is ever recommended is the premium bullets when it comes to elk. I was thinking about using the 215-gr. in my 338-06. I have not tried the 210-gr. Nosler Partition yet. I also have 200-gr. Hornady Spirepoints and 200-gr. Speer Hot-Cores. I would think a 215-gr. bullet in the lungs should equal dead elk. Just curious as to what you guys think. C-ROY | ||
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| one of us |
I have used the 250/.375 Gameking on elk. According to the technical folks at Sierra, the .338's and .375's both have high-antimony cores and are somewhat tougher than the lesser calibers. Still, their conventional design and tapered core at the boattail limits their terminal performance. I would think, however, that you would do just fine with the 215/.338. Elk are tough, but that bullet is going to penetrate to the vitals and give you some useful upset regardless of whether it works in a "textbook" manner or not. However, I'm a big fan of the 210 Partition, and would recommend it, if it shoots well in your gun, over the Sierra. Sorry, no experience with the Hornady or Speer. | |||
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| one of us |
I tend to agree with Allen's view on hunting Elk. When it comes to Elk and bullets, buy what you can afford and works best in your rifle, but make sure it is a proven bullet. Now, all that being said, I've used Hornadies in 225 grain in my .338 Mag for years and never had a single problem. I've put them through Elk from any angle possible and never worried about penetration. All my rifles also shoot the Hornadies VERY well. Better to have a good bullet that shoots with average accuracy and practice until you can shoot offhand quickly, than to use a marginal bullet that shoots well. As Allen said, Elk hardly ever cooperate when it comes time to shoot. Hope you have a great hunt- Sheister | |||
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| one of us |
Allens comments are real "wisdom of the ages" stuff ,a t least in my opinion. I shoot an elk every year and I use partitions , almost exclusively. As they have shoown themselves to be proven performers for me and I know what they can and cannot do in each of my various calibers. The only Gamekings I have used were 300 grainers in my .375 H&H, they work quite well on elk. Again......try the 225's or 250's in your .338-06 instead of those varmint bullets you want to use. They are pure and proper elk medicine, trust me. FN | |||
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I'm sure they work 95% of the time, my question is why would anyone want to risk it when you can buy Noslers or a premium for just a little more, and know that your not going to go wrong, and that you can take what ever shot you get, even stright away with the RIGHT bullet. Even in the best elk country you may only get one chance, and if you blow it because of bullet failure, then shame on you. Elk hunting ain't cheap no matter how you do it,and a 50cent bullet is no place to conserve..It don't take a seventh son of a seventh son to figure that out. ------------------ | |||
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I shot 1 elk with their .338/250's (it took 2 shots) and both came unstuck completely. Since then I have used Nosler's. Hardly statistically significant sample but why fool around when Nosler's or Swift's work so well? C.G.B. | |||
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| <Caveman> |
My uncle has taken 15 elk. Some bulls, some cows. All have been taken with Sierra Gamekings. 10 of them were with a 270 Win 150 gr and 5 were with a 300 Win Mag, 200 gr. He swears by them, and another reason why he loves them is the fact that they all shoot well out of his rifles. That builds confidence. I have taken only one elk (5x4), last November. I used a 300 Win Mag with Nosler Partition Golds 180 gr, my uncle was with me. I shot him high behind the shoulders laying down, he got up and I shot him again in the back of the neck. Then, he dropped. He killed a cow the next day with the 200 gr Sierra at 382 yards! She dropped in her tracks and she was as big as my bull! If they shoot good and you are confident with them...shoot them! They work...I have seen it! Good luck! Elk hunting is fun, but hard work! Corey | ||
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One of Us |
I have a lot of friends that would never use a premium bullet on elk. I'm with the majority here... I can't understand NOT using premiums. In my mind it's simply a matter of "false economy." Certainly with larger calibers like .338" 250's and .375" 300's, there's probably enough metal there to get the job done even if the bullet comes apart. Why risk it though? My acid test for an elk bullet is that it must be able to stay together while breaking-down the heavy pelvis and rear-end of an elk for those sometimes opportunities that come in the timber. Most non-premiums can't do that as they come apart. Who wants to pass up an anchoring shot after all the work that goes into elk hunting because of a poor choice of bullets? Not me! BA | |||
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I think the 215 grain Gameking should suit your needs fine. I've used them on deer and caribou with good sucess. Also dropped a caribou last year with a 180 grain Sierra in 308Win. I don't understand the theory about using premium bullets so I can shoot an elk at any angle. What ever happened to being a skillful hunter...part of which is getting a good shot. Shooting at elk even with the best bullet in the rear as it's running away borders on unethical in my book. | |||
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| <allen day> |
You'd understand the reason for premium bullets if you had to hunt the short five-day bull elk seasons we have to contend with here in Oregon, where you simply don't have the luxury of being so very choosey about what sort of shot you either will or won't take. Around here, you take your opportunities as they come to you, and if you decide to pass a shot at a given bull, you may not get another one before the season's over. That's why we hunt with plenty of rifle and we employ good bullets that won't come apart on shoulder bones - bullets that will penetrate deep and keep on going. Anyone who's ever had to track an elk that took a hit from a flimsey bullet that blew up on a scapula and didn't get inside (I have, and more than once) tends to change their tune about bullet selection in short order. I am absolutely NOT recommending or practicing careless, sloppy shot selection, I'm talking about taking good, calculated shots under less than ideal circumstances. There's another side to this business also as far as non-resident hunters goes: Guided elk hunts are getting more and more expensive every year. Now why on Earth would anyone step-over-a-dollar-to-pick-up-a-dime on bullet expense when quality guided elk hunts start at $5,000 or so and go up (way up!) from there. That sort of concept is an illogical mind-blower that makes absolutely no sense at all. I know a fair number of professional elk guides, and they all share these complaints (to the man!) about many of the clients they guide: Pilgrims that can't ride; pilgrims who can't get up the mountain; pilgrims who can't shoot; and pilgrims who bring ammunition that's loaded with junk bullets that come apart. Premium bullets make a guide's job just that much easier, and they help ensure a humane kill and the hunter's ultimate success. AD [This message has been edited by allen day (edited 03-01-2002).] | ||
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| <Caveman> |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brad: My acid test for an elk bullet is that it must be able to stay together while breaking-down the heavy pelvis and rear-end of an elk for those sometimes opportunities that come in the timber. Most non-premiums can't do that as they come apart. Who wants to pass up an anchoring shot after all the work that goes into elk hunting because of a poor choice of bullets? Not me! Well, there you have it, spoken from a true hunter. Some of you think it is best to shoot these "PREMIUM" bullets and believe you can shoot an animal in the ASS and this superbullet will better your odds on taking the animal. Sometimes its best not to shoot. I agree with JAB, some of us hunters with or without "PREMIUM" bullets rely on marksmanship and put the bullet where it counts. I dont care how hard the hunting is and the "work" put into getting a shot. The animal deserves respect and therefore they should be taken as cleanly as possible. That goes from Elk to Whitetail. Corey | ||
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one of us |
The short answer is "not again." I was lucky enough to grow up in elk country and have killed something on the order of 20 elk. The only time I tried a gameking was a 250 grain in my .375 H&H. The bullet desintigrated on the front shoulder, and it was only by luck that a chip of bone punctured the elk's aorta and killed it. If you insist on non-premium bullets go for a 250 grain Hornady in the .338. Otherwise, go with a premium Nosler/Swift/Barnes/etc. It seems like every first-time elk hunter thinks they need a 500 yard elk cartridge, so they think speed. Elk are tough, go with a heavy for caliber bullet and learn its trajectory. Then learn how to stalk to within 300 or fewer yards. | |||
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one of us |
Gamekings will work. Noslers are more forgiving as are other "premium" bullets. It's important to know how a bullet will work in your gun. The bullet you choose to shoot out of you're .338-06 won't come apart as easily as it would out of a Win Mag or Weatherby. Read through some of the posts here, there was one where people were happy to suggest using a .270 for Elk. Your .338-06 is by far better IMO and if you choose a shot well it will work great. I do use some premium bullets but in some situations a slower bullet of standard construction will work fine. All that said, I agree the partition is a good choice in 210 if you shoot that light a bullet. I do think a 250 gameking would work with excellent results and you can afford to practice like crazy with your hunting rounds. Another thought is to practice with cheaper bullets of the same weight as what you intend on hunting with, then switch to your choice of hunting bullet and check zero. 50 Noslers will last a while if you only use them to shoot animals and if you get one shot kills one box of bullets will last several years. Either way consider the performance of you rifle and match the bullet to your needs. I've used Sierras in several rifles and they work if you use your noodle. | |||
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| One of Us |
Corey, maybe if you shut your mouth and get a little REAL experience under your belt you might have something to offer here... since you obviously don't, please back away from the computer and get your ass up on an elk mountain... Brad Amundson | |||
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Moderator |
FWIW, I've killed two bull elk with 200gr Sierra GK's out of my .300 Win Mag. First one was a quartering toward me shot at 32 yards, the other was a broadside shot at about 250 yards. Both bullets were recovered and the jacket and lead were found together, but loose of each other. I haven't had a problem with the GK's but have switched to Noslers "just because". I'd use them again in a heartbeat though, but I'd refrain from any raking shots. Canuck | |||
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| <Daddy2B8162> |
I do appreciate you all who can stalk to 50 60 yards of an Elk, but some of us don't have that choice. I myself have a prostetic leg from hip to toe and makes a quite stalk next to impossible. So what I have learned to do is to shoot the distance. I use a 300win mag with 165gr Noslers. Have taken a dozen Elk, cows and bulls, and have had no problems with my varmit loads with good shoot placement. In my situation, I would use nothing but a proven bullet with good shot placement and that puts meat in the freezer. Just my $.02 Ed | ||
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quote: I generaly stay away from these elk things as I have no experience but I have to say I was starting to wonder until I read this post. I would like to ask the question:- Are people who 'achor'(cripple?) elk from unconventional angles happy that they are acting in a humane manner? | |||
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| <Caveman> |
quote:
Oh, did I offend you? Please Brad, tell us unexperienced hunters what it feels like to top "elk mountain" and shoot an Elk in the ASS. | ||
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The reason I like heavy for caliber bullets (Speers generally) is not that I want to shoot elk in the ass but at times I have to help bring down a wounded elk and bad angles are the norm in this situation. The tenacity of an elk is hard to believe and having seen hard hit elk go a mile over a mountain and semi frozen stream directly away from any road with a broken shoulder and a deflated lung I will try to break this animal down. This elk was hit with a 180 grain sierra pro hunter from a 300 weatherby. | |||
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| <allen day> |
Corey, you're taking Brad's experience way out of context, and you're going far out of your way to create a "tidal wave in a tin cup" over his comments. And based on what experience of your own with elk? Brad is a highly eithical hunter with a very solid background behind him (he lives in elk country, for Pete's sake!) and he does not endorse shlockey, atrocious hunting precedures - this I know simply because I know and trust him. He's a good hunter, he's intelligent, he's honest, and he's ethical. AD | ||
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Corey, You obviously are more interested in stirring the pot than listening to what is being said here. The fact is, if you hunt elk long enough you will be faced with this shot once in awhile. Personally, I will take the shot in the rear hips or going away up the tailpipe when that is all that is offered on a legal elk. It works exceptionally well, puts elk on the ground, and will usually bleed out an elk fairly quickly, since the blood vessels and arteries are grouped heavily in the rear pelvis/hip area. | |||
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| one of us |
"Up the tailpipe when that is the only shot offered" Like I said where are the ethics. I don't have any statistics to back this up, but I bet that a lot more animals are lost from "up the tailpipe" or rear end shots than from lung shots. And the statement about driving a bullet through the lungs of an elk so it can run off and die doesn't make much sense. If you shoot and elk through the lungs and don't have the skills to track it get out of the woods. With both lungs hit it can only go so far. Yea there will be the occansional exception and one might get away, but more will get away with ASS shots. I won't be teaching my kids to shoot "up the tailpipe"...hunting deserves more than that. I live in Alaska, not "elk country"...maybe I don't know anything. | |||
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| one of us |
JAB, the fact is even lung shots on elk are sometimes not immediately fatal and an easy to follow blood trail aren't as common as people want to think. My brother shot a 4x5 elk through the lungs with a 30-06, but the Corelok just pencilled through. Luckily, we had knee deep snow to track in, and a bit of a blood trail once in awhile. After much trailing, crossing fences several times, and distinguishing this elk's track from a couple herds it mixed in with, we finally found it lying in a lodgepole thicket almost 2 miles from where it was shot. After gutting, the lungs both had a perfectly placed hole clean through, but not enough damage to cause massive bleeding. Another time and another elk, the heavy scapula bone was hit with the same 30-06 and those shitty Coreloks and blew off the leg, literally, and the elk ran off on 3 legs. Several hunters reported seeing this elk running while we tracked it for almost 5 miles and finally lost it in a patch of Salal approximately 5 acres in size right at dark. Very little blood trail in that case also, and the dry, grassy ground didn't give up tracks easily. My tracking skills are probably as good as anyone else, but eliminating tracking is really the effective issue here. Any animal put on the ground quickly is much more effective than tracking a wounded animal as long as it takes. Especially in some of the hell holes elk call home. In both cases above, a premium bullet would have made the difference between a long tracking job or not. As far as shooting game in the ass, hey, do as you wish. Ethics has very little to do with it. I've found that this shot, when executed as accurately as any other shot should be taken, to be at least as effective and at least as quickly lethal. But in any case, the results are substantially more reliable with reliable bullets, which in my book means at the minimum a Hornady Interlock, Noslers, or Swift Aframes. Your predjudice about shooting game in the ass is simple ignorance of the technique. Used properly, it can be quick and humane as any other shot. I probably won't convince you that this is an ethical practice, since you obviously have your mind made up about most hunting situations in general. Keep in mind, many hunting situations aren't as black and white as you paint them. But I won't disagree with your desire to teach your children in any ethical manner you wish.- Sheister | |||
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| one of us |
Last summer I bought some 250 grain Sierra BT bullets for my 338 win mag. I worked up a load that had a muzzle velocity of about 2700 and would shoot � inch groups. I normally use hornady�s but because these shot so well I thought I would try them this year. The last weekend of the season I decided to take a break from elk hunting and look for a deer. I found a nice fat 4X4 mule deer and decided to take him. The shot was a quartering away shot at about 175 yards. I aimed for the off shoulder and touched one off. At the shot the deer wobbled off for about 40 yards and went down. When field dressing the deer I noticed a large amount of damage to most of the internal organs. I also noticed no exit wound. When I got home and skinned the deer I found the bullet between the body cavity and the off shoulder. The bullet was perfectly mushroomed but did not even break the off shoulder. Even though the bullet mushroomed and killed the deer very well I was very disappointed in the total penetration. I would have expected complete penetration from any angle with a 250 grain bullet from a 338. I have to seriously question if these bullets are a good choice for elk. Most elk that I have shot with hornady, barnes, or noslers have had complete penetration. I think I will go back to one of those. [This message has been edited by mtelkhunter (edited 03-01-2002).] | |||
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| One of Us |
Allen, thanks for the kind words. Sheister... exactly. Those that don't elk hunt are horrified with the idea of a rear-end shot. Those that have actually done it know differently. IMO it is entirely ethical, humane and effective as long as the range is reasonable and the cartridge/bullet combo are up to the task. My last really good bull was a nice six point that went 313 B&C... not an enormous bull, but his hindquarters were massive. After a 3.5 hour stalk in below zero weather I got onto him on a knife-edge ridge at 8,000 feet in thick blow-downs. He was standing in his bed. He had heard me but could not see me or scent me. The only shot available was his rear-end. Good planning eliminates a lot of chance which was why I was carrying a 338 Win Mag loaded with Nosler Partitions... I wasn't worried about the shot. I hammered him (from fifty yards)... he was piled up inside of seventy yards with a nearly unbelievable blood trail. A finisher in the lungs and he was done. I skinned and quartered him and brought the horses in the next day to get him out, which was quite an adventure in itself because of where he was! Corey... though cold, on top of that elk mountain it felt wonderful. Please tell us your experiences elk hunting so we can learn from such a sage as yourself. Brad Amundson | |||
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| One of Us |
Corey, I went back and read your original post in which you informed us you shot an elk "high, behind the shoulders," finishing him in the neck. To me and many experienced hunters, "high, behind the shoulders" borders on POOR shot placenment. Often, "high and behind the shoulders" means a lost and/or wounded elk. Neck shots are generally something I won't do if a better shot is available. Funny how you condemn something (and someone) you have no experience with while unknowingly illustrating with your story a shot that can loose an elk. We all bungle shots, but I generally don't ignorantly brag about it while at the same time condemning others as inhumane and unethical. I think I hear the High School bell ringing... Brad Amundson | |||
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| <Caveman> |
Brad, I have been called many things, but never sage. I'll take it as a compliment.  Your experience on the mountain sounded like fun! Congrats on the kill! I must disagree with you again though, a 313 bull is enormous!! You should be very proud of him. I agree, your rifle/combo was a great one for your bull under the circumstances. I love Elk, and Elk hunting and admire people such as yourself that have done it your whole life. As far as my experiences, I have hunted my whole life, since I was five. But, I have only hunted Elk for the past three. I have had a few shots at some bulls, but chose not to take them. The shot I chose to take I discussed earlier. Novice...at elk hunting, yes...but you cant fault me for wanting and waiting for the perfect shot. Corey | ||
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| <Caveman> |
quote: Well Brad...the neck shot was the ONLY shot I had at him and "high school bell" or not I would rather shoot an Elk in the neck than the ASS. I took the neck shot so I wouldn't "loose" him. At the "high school" I went to we spelled that lose. Corey | ||
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| one of us |
Folks, ask Saeed if he ever shot a buffalo in the bum. He has a nice photo somewhere. Quite effective that "Texas heart shot". Oh by the way I would reccomend using only premiums for elk but if you insist on a conventional bullet go heavy for caliber with the bullet. It will give you lower velocity and consequently less bullet upset. Additionally if it hits bone and fragments it will provide larger secondary projectiles. Good hunting. "D" [This message has been edited by D Hunter (edited 03-02-2002).] | |||
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one of us |
I just don't undertand why anyone hunts w/ non-premium bullets? The idea of using the right tool for any job just makes more sense. Bull elk are very big & you should plan for the worst shot possible & be ready for it. I think that's what Brad is implying. I doubt he waits for a rear end shot, but some time you have to take a low percentage shot or none at all. I have had my share of "none @ all" & lived w/ it, but it's nice to have the options that a premium bullet gives you. | |||
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| one of us |
Here are my thoughts on this. (If you care to read.) First off, I find these forums a bit interesting, a bit entertaining, a bit educational and mostly something to do when we can not be out hunting/shooting or getting in shape. That said, I think it would be a ton of fun to have a big camp fire and invite all from these forums to a couple of day of BS'n,hunting, shooting and getting to know each other. You ever notice how much easier it is to talk with people when you can look them in the eye? There are a few people on here that I'd love to get together with and pick there brain for ideas and their thoughts. There are also some people on here it would be fun to get to know and to find out what exactly is there experience, you know really sort out those with the book knowledge and those with the knowledge from experence. It would also be kind of fun to dog pile any who disagree with me-eh. Ha ha On the Sierra's, I've seen it done a ton, what's a ton you say. Without counting really closely say somewhere north of 30 killed. Most of them were with the old 270 with a 130 Sie Bt. I would also ad that none heave ever been lost. I would also add that we hunt in country that is pretty darn open, and that we hunt for meat. We do not sneak around in the Dark Timber much like Brad or like Ray. Probably because I am not nearly as sneaky as Brad or Ray. I also would say that for the most part I use Noz Pt's any more. If I were to hunt in the Dark T and were to want to take the shots as they came then I would use a big gun (like Brad's 338-although I tend to prefer the 340). Or say my 375 Wby. And I would make sure only with a premium bullet. I really get a kick out of people getting all up in arms about someone taking a shot at the south end of a north bound critter. Have I ever done it? Not yet-would I you bet. As long as I used the right bullet and cartridge and had the cool to drop the hammer when all looked right. I know Brad he is a hunter- he has hunted elk- he also has the cool and the discipline to know when to shoot and when not to. And he has (in my opinion)earned the right to advize people on this subject. And in my opinion if they are smart they will listen. Will they always agree with him I doubt it, do I always agree with him or he with me. Once again I doubt it. However I do respect him and am darn sure gonna listen! Here's one for you to chew over. How's about this subject. Running shots, I see a bunch of people take these every year. How's come people never get nervous about this? And yet they do about things like should a Sierra be used? Should you use a 270 or should you shoot one in the seat of the pants? Sorry about the rambling here gang. Guess this just sort of set me off, as if you couldn't tell.
Dog | |||
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| <eldeguello> |
No. I use Nosler Partition jacketed bullets for everything, even though they are not needed for deer hunting. By the way, the 210 grain .338 NPJ is NOT a varmint bullet.(Unless you consider elk, moose, and grizzly bears to be "varmints"!!) | ||
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| one of us |
OK, I confess I have done it. The last Elk I took was a 5x5 that I shot going away at a dead run in timber at a range of about sixty-five yards. The rifle was a .270 and the bullet a 130 Nosler Partition. It broke the hip, ran the length of the animal below the spine and exited the shoulder. The animal piled up right there and I did quickly have to put in a finisher. No, the .270 is not my Elk rifle. I prefer my .338 with 210 Partitions but I had a .270 in my hands and a bull Elk in front of me. I had started out for Mule Deer and at the last minute picked up an Elk Tag. This was Colorado and they were available over the counter. If I lived in Elk country and could hunt often, I would probably be much more picky about my shots. I don't. What I do have occasionally is a few days to go Elk hunting at considerable expense and effort. I certainly prefer my .338 and Nosler bullets. I learned long ago to take the shot that is offered and hit 'em as hard as you can. I would like them standing still and broadside every time while I rest my rifle accross my worn sweat stained Stetson, but I suspect that usually occurs most often at gun writers keyboards not in the field. At least not for me. | |||
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| <Rogue 6> |
A couple years ago I walloped a decent 5x6 Roosevelt with a max load of imr4831 and 180 gameking. It was a classic quartering away shot through both lungs slightly high of the heart and out the off shoulder. I know the shot wasn't stem to stern, but I couldn't have asked for better performance. Since then I've used 180 grain partitions, and Scirrocos, and 190 gr interlocks for elk in my 300 win. | ||
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