What do you think is the toughest animal species in North America to take a trophy example of and why?

I would like to rule out animals that are tough to get only due to cost or very limited tags.

I would imagine some loose definition of "trophy" is necessary. By trophy I mean an animal that would make "the book" but, I think there is alot more to it than that.......however, I will leave that portion up to you.

To start it off......my guess would be a true monster Mountain Mule deer.

Regards,
Dave

Being a bowhunter, I'd say any of the bigger 3 bears (Griz, Brown or Polor) due the the shot distance required. For over all toughness, not counting cost or rarity I'd say the 4 sheep species would be the toughest due to the terrain necessary to overcome to hunt them.

My 2 cents

Dave,

I believe you have the toughest trophy right in your backyard. An honest to goodness trophy whitetail from northern New England is a trophy indeed.

Low animal densities in the big woods and forested habitat make a very challenging hunt. I hunted Maine for 25 years and I only remember 2 really big bucks that we ever shot. We were very happy with any legal deer.

Regards,

Mark

For really tough slugging, I would say a 10" or better Mountain Goat is the one. They live in far more rugged country, on average, than any Sheep or Mulie does and the really big ones are few and far between.

That question is very difficult to answer and you can't leave out cost and tag availability. Were you live has a lot to do with the answer. I know a very accessable area (to me) that can produce 200 inch mountain mule deer. Stone sheep are a dream for me wereas a bighorn is simply a matter of time. Grizzly are darn near impossible yet if I drew a tag minimal time and money would be required to get one. A big whitetail still eludes me although I have seen my share. Yet a couple of years with an outfitter and "his" property would no doubt increase my odds substantially. I've been so close to 360+ Elk that I could hear them but one that big doesn't hang on the wall. If I drew a goat tag getting him wouldn't be an issue but I'll never draw. I'll never hunt the desert bighorn, just don't have the bug bad enough. Anyway, the variables are too many and priorities so varied that answering the question becomes very difficult. The good news is that at 27 I have a lot of time to still figure it out.

What Kutenaymtnboy said.

30-30 Man

Good posts!

Mark,

I hear what you are saying about Maine whitetails! The big ones require alot of effort and time to aquire. I have two friends who guide for a living (Stone&Dalls,Brown Bears,Elk,Moose,Caribou,Mulies,Pronghorn,Whitetails etc..)and both have told me on more than one ocassion that when it is all said and done a Big Maine Whitetial will be one of your most memorable and prized trophies.

BTW, I sent you a Private Message a couple days ago regarding Black Bear hunting. Did you get it?


Chuck,

You are correct. It is a bit unfair of me to eliminate cost & drawing tags. I did that because I just did not want it to be a discussion based on money or luck.

Regards,
Dave

I actually tend to think that your question as posed has more validity than if it had involved the cost of hunts. I am poor, but, I live in B.C. and have a great deal of bush experience, so, apart from age and fitness issues, I have the opportunity to hunt most big game animals if I choose.

The only other people on the forum who can hunt here with the exception of fellow residents are those who have both deep pockets and a high level of motivation; the cost of non-resident hunting is very high and most hunting in B.C. is physically very demanding.

So, there is a lot of truth in what Chuck says,but, the original question is also valid in that it allows for objective replies based on the animals behaviour and habitat; this is why I chose the Goat, based on my experience. Much Stone's and Dall's Sheep hunting here is no more physically difficult than Mule Deer hunting and easier than Elk as a big ram weighs less than half what a big bull weighs and you must pack out all of the meat.

I also consider a big Whitetail to be a superb trophy, especially from densely populated areas. I do not care about trophies very much, but, I admire people who have the patience and skill necessary to harvest an animal under those conditions.

K-boy has it right.

The Mt Goat is the toughest N A Big game hunt.

Bighorns, Dall sheep, mountain Goats are all tough to get, but there may be one tougher. The Wood Bison in the Yukon is said to be very very tough. Several guys have gone to hunt them and come back exhausted and empty handed. For me personaly, its the Woodcock, I can't seem to hit one of the damn things.


Joe

A 190 class mountain mule deer on public land would take the cake in my book.

A 9 ft. plus Brown Bear is the toughest trophy in North America to achieve. The Big Bears are not only is costly, but scarce and not every tom,dick, and harry is willing to accept the danger involved. The rest including sheep and goats are a matter of time, money and physical challange. The Big Bears are all that and a big batch of courage thrown in at crunch time. That is my .02. Good shooting.

I live in western Washington and I would have to say that a "book" blacktail would have to be my choice for the toughest to harvest. It is just real hard to hunt them where they live. The brush is thick and it is almost impossible to keep quiet while hunting them. Lots of average bucks are taken every year in western Washington and Oregon but VERY few "bookers"

Wolverine, Doll Sheep, Spirit bear

ChuckWagon,

What is a "Spirit" bear?

Regards,
Dave

When I was stationed at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, the whitetail used to eat the grass along the road I drove to work. Racks as big as 20 & 24 points were common to see at dawn and dusk. They are common, and someone who hunts the Edgewood area of APG gets a monster buck. Normal, eh? Well, I heard a story that I would not believe, except I saw it. A true Albino whitetail deer, buck, with a monster rack. Too elusive to count, and only saw it for about 10 seconds. I had to look twice. There it was, running, stopped for just a second, then running again. Never heard or saw anything like it. Never got a shot, cause we were walking to our stands. (APG is very restricted with designated stand areas, and shooting lanes) I heard all of you, and the spirit bear sounds like an equal challenge.

a buck 50 will get you bulls&*t, 2 cents will get you what?

I would have to also agree with hvyw8t and the 190 class public land mule deer

Gatehouse,

I have never heard the term spirit bear used except for the giant ice bears allegedly still roaming Kamchatka.

Thanks for the clarification.

Regards,
Dave

Kermodi (spirit) Bear is the white phase Black bear that is found along the Northern BC coast and extreme souther part of the AK panhandle.

They are rare in most of that range but on Isle Royal BC they are quite a few.

This one is in the Terrace BC City Hall.

Guided or un-guided... public ground or private?

Brad has a very good question here as certain animals can be found far more easily on private land which is closed to public hunting. The guided-non-guided issue also enters into the equation because anyone who wants to hunt Stone's Sheep must be guided, if you are not a B.C. resident. Given the growing anti-hunting and especially anti-non-resident trophy hunting sentiment here, I doubt that there is more than 10-20 years left for Stone's Sheep hunting in any event.

The Kermode variation of the Black Bear is protected in B.C. and thus is not really a legitimate consideration; there will never be legal hunting for this animal as it is an icon to the environmentalists.

I also think that the truely disgusting, racist attitude that the aboriginal peoples whom we have pampered for so long have special rights to resources will eventually put an end to hunting in B.C.; this is the way that many of them will be mollified so that the corporations can get the oil, gas, timber, hydro-power and water, without interference.

To me, the toughest trophy is the one that average hunters have reasonably equal access to which is why I pick Goats.

Kermodi and Glacier (blue) Black Bear can be taken in Alaska. They are very rare but considered a sub-specie of the Black and there are no laws against taking one.

No guide is required for a US citizen.

I've hunted all over the country and still think the southeastern whitetail buck on heavily hunted public lands takes the cake.

You can sit in a box stand on a plantation and watch them parade by all day while sipping iced tea and munching on cornbread.

But if you want an old mossyhorn from way back in the public land swamp, the kind with REALLY long hooves 'cuz they never set foot on hard dry ground and that get hunted year round by poachers... You'll work for it and maybe if you get really lucky and if you hunt for years and years you'll get a fleeting look at one...

They live in thick woods where you can rarely see more than 30 yards and lie up in briar thickets in the daytime that armadillos can't hardly penetrate.

Their food and water is all around them (although of relatively poor quality) so they are almost impossible to pattern.

They tend to stake out small territories and let the does come to them when in rut.

But they're there and they're surprisingly big and have racks that you usually think of as being on midwestern bucks.

Yeah... These swamp ghosts are worthy of the stealthiest hunter's attention and a TRUE trophy for the student of truly difficult trophies.

$bob$

Dave,

Try my e-mail.

Mark

I'll say fair chase mountain lion (no dogs) is the toughest trophy out there. Though it is do-able in the coastal provinces with the increased populations since the dogs were prohibited. FWIW, Dutch.

I never thought about Cougars, but, you are probably right. In many seasons as a firetower person, alone in some of the most isolated areas in both B.C. and Alberta, starting in 1965, I have NEVER seen a Cougar in the bush. A friend saw one on a lookout in the Kootenays, but, he is the only person I know who has. So, this probably is about the toughest trophy, all things considered.

kutenaymtnboy,

Brad does raise a valid question.....guided vs. unguided, public land vs. private.

There are so many variables depending upon the state or countries laws, land owner rights, hunters sense of ethics and skills, money and time that he can afford to spend, guides access to an area(s) as well as ability to greatly increase odds & possible trophy quality etc.... Basically, I can't narrow it all down to a reasonable playing field. You folks can make those calls just be sure to tell us why?


Off topic but, I have to address your last paragraph.

I receintly went on a hunt (last Fall) and I saw some of the most disturbing and disgusting abuses of animals and hunting that I could ever imagine. I was totally taken aback as I had never seen or heard the like of it. I asked the guides "What the f&%k is this!!??" His response in complete disgust was "Native people hunting." "Why would they do this?" I asked. His response.........."Because they can." It was truly disturbing and I won't ever forget it!!!
Your mention of timber & hydro in this regard are spot on....

Regards,
Dave

Good thread and a lot of interesting replies. But Ill side with Brad on this one. Too many unmentioned variables.



Like with a lot of "generalized" hunting questions, the correct answer will vary with the geography. Around here, Im guessing that desert bighorn in some of Utahs vast and sometimes very rugged desret terrain could be excrutiating.

Ive also heard horror stories of the Henry Mtn Bison hunts, which are once in a lifetime hunts. Undoubtedly those who are mounted on horseback will be far better equiped for it than those without.



"Fair chase" brings out yet another variable. One other hunt in this neck of the woods that may be worthy of mention is the illusive Utah Black bear which must be done "with no dogs or bait"! As I understand it, "Old Ephriam", a Utah Blackie, is still a B&C record holder.

A Mtn. Lion hunted without dogs is definitely tops just because you will most likely never see one. I have seen one in my 32 years and consider myself lucky. I think a black bear without dogs almost anywhere in the lower 48 probably comes in a close second.
When it comes to all around hunt difficulty, not just getting the shot, I have to agree with LongshotRX on the Wood Bison as a third place finisher. Imagine -30 degree temperatures in a Yukon February, deep snow, Bison that live in sheep country, then just two of you packing the thing out. Fun stuff! I can't wait to go back!

Best,

JohnTheGreek

My vote goes to the Sasquatch followed closely by the illusive Jackalope. http://www.sudftw.com/jackcon.htm
Seriously my vote goes to the Desert Bighorn their scarcity in general making a trophy example even more difficult to come by.

I've seen only 3 or 4 cougars in the wild. So without dogs, I would imagine it's pretty hard, unless you get lucky with a predator call.

Black bear hunting is easy without dogs or bait. That's how we do it, and the biggest problem is deciding how picky you are goign to be about the bear. But, we've got a few bears around here

Kutenay... knowing you and I hunt a lot alike I should also ask, fly-in / horse-in with permanant camp or backpack-in... also, solo or with a partner... the variables are endless!

Actually Brad, hunting horses themselves is probably the toughest and you can't (or would be wise not to) shoot them to get them stopped. Oh sweet mountain hunting on your own horses (usually colts) memories.

Muskeg, that is what I was refering to. The Alaskan white phase color bear. A blondie I think that bilogicly this is really a different sub strain than the true sprit bears in BC that are protected.

Great post! There are so many good choises...all would be tough.
For me...Like some others on this one. It would be a mountain lion w/o the use of hounds. Just getting one would be a trophy. A book cat would be like winning the loto.
Seems like everyone but me has seen them. Except on here. Like many of you. I spend most of my spare time hunting and fishing and I have never even seen one. I have set up on their kills, Put fawn decoys out and bleeted. Squeeled...you name it, and so far. Nothing has worked. I could put in more effort. I am always ready just incase I get a gift. Guys see them while they are fishing some of the rivers I fish for steelhead...But then. I will not have hunted one... just gotten lucky.
I'll take it!

i am not sure what the TOUGHEST would be, but i do believe that you would have to work hardest to get a really good trophy ram.

The Kermodi crosses from the BC side to the AK side (and visa / versa) of the Portland Canal. The same Bear would be protcted in BC but not once it climbed onto the AK beach. None have been taken in AK in recent history though.

I was not refering to the lighter phase (sometimes whitish) Glacier Blue Bear of the northern panhandle.

The Glacier Blue Bears taken in the southern panhandle have all been the dark phase.