Since we have been talking about bison a lot lately, I thought I would pass this opportunity on to AR. One of my outfitters is running a hunt for the bison that roam outside of Wood Buffalo National Park. These animals are legally hunted outside the park and, since they are not "pure" wood bison, can be legally brought back to the US (unlike the one I took last year in the Yukon). The outfitter is 100% on Bison over the last few years and knows a heck of a spot where he finds them every year. The hunt will be really rustic and will require a lot of snowmobiling and a chilly camp in February but should be well worth it! Please note that his will be a true wilderness experience. No pampering will take place, sub-zero temperatures are likely, frostbite a possibility, and hard work will be required to skin and remove the animals from the bush. I know there is someone out there who is interested in the prospect of such misery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <br /><br />The price is $4000 which may seem steep but the hunt is legit. No fences, no ranches, no pickups, no excuses . . . LEGIT! This may cost me a customer, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but whoever books this hunt will be hunting with me at the same time. I'll even let you shoot first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <br /><br />Feel free to send me a PM here on AR for more information.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />JohnTheGreek

John,

I heard about these hunts. I considered it, myself. I quess there is little to no hunting pressure and the chances of getting a big bull is good. I think it was 2 winters ago, that a trapper was killed by a bison in roughly the area you are talking about.

Daryl

Daryl,

I heard about that incident! It was my understanding that he just ran across the thing while on his trap line, decided to fill the freezer, wounded the bull and was run over while following it up. Guess that goes to show that bison just ain't the 100% docile creatures they are often made out to be!

If you ever decide to undertake this hunt with an outfitter please let me know or if you want go after them on a "do it yourself basis", you certainly have at least one person interested in joining you!

Best,

John

Hi,
I thought it was impossible to do a do-it-yourself hunt in Canada, and all non-residents need a guide..

Well, sort of. If you know someone in Alberta, they can be your "hunting host". This used to be a Class C guide licence, but they figured people were abusing it, so they cam eup with this scheme. Basically, an Alberta resident gets a permit as a hunting host for whomever he wants to bring up to hunt with him. The maximum is two people, if I remember correctly, and the resident is not allowed to charge for his services. This is supposed to be one of those "for friends and relatives" things. I've done this with a couple of cornhusker buddies of mine. If you do decide to come, and you've ever had a DUI or such, download the pre-admittance forms from the Canadian Gov't site, and save yourself a lot of hassle. As for the hunt John speaks of, it's in tough country, and it's much tougher in February. Temps can drop to -50, plus windchill, and you are far away from ANY civilization (no hospitals, roads, etc.) The bison are considered neither fish nor fowl, as it were. If they are out of the park, and not on private property, they aren't domestic animals or game animals, so yes you can hunt them, and tags aren't required (unless they've changed the law recently). Rustic would certainly be the word. The only way to get the game out (and you in, actually), is snowmobile (hence February) or helicopter. Challenging hunt, though, just be prepared. - Dan

John,

I would be interested in a Do-It-Yourself hunt. Unfortunately, I will be in Red Deer, ALta. this winter taking a coarse. I will look more into it for the following winter. Nothing else to do in Febuary, but hunt, anyways.
Like Dan say's, it is a tough and remote hunt, but you have been there-done that, here in the Yukon. It would take me 2 hours and I would be packed up and ready to go. I have got a new Skandic 600 with only 500miles on it. A hunt like this would get a few more miles on it. The cold weather makes you feel that you are alive!

Daryl

LOL! Alive? Only until you have to answer the call of nature in a snowbank. Once your bottom is frozen though, it just has to get better after that. Yeah, you're right Daryl, the remote hunts are the best ones, I think. - Dan

Daryl and Dan,

I agree that there is nothing in the world quite so cold as a Yukon outhouse in February but the hunting and scenery are definitely worth it! Let me know when you want to head over there Daryl. I will definitely join you!

Best,

JohnTheGreek

This sounds like my kind of hunt. Live here in the warmer part of Alaska but have had my winter experience in the arctic - shot the New Years Eve fireworks show in Barrow many times, hunted for musk ox on an island in Bering Sea in February. Can attest to the fact that you lose control of your fingers after a few minutes exposure to -40 and a 40 mph wind.

Unfortunately, I am a handgun hunter and you Canucks are not too receptive of that idea.

Funny thing is we Alaskans had a plan worked out with you guys to import Wood Bison and start our own herd up in Teslin area. State, native organizations, SCI, everyone was all lined out, except our USF&W wouldn't permit it because they were endangered (would be a violation of CITES or soemthing like that). Makes a heck of a lot of sense to stop a reintroduction for that reason when there are enough animals to allow a hunting season in Canada - not.

Dan , what is this hunting host deal. I might have to take up rifle hunting if I can impose on my Canadian friends. Is it Alberta alone or can it be done in BC and YT?

Hey guys,

Finally we're talking!! John, I sent you the details about the D-I-Y approach for wood buff!! With a couple of guys, this does not have to cost an arm and a leg. Yeah, -40, sure wind chill, and I'll reget the whole darn thing when I'm on that skiddoo, but life's too short to not risk a limb or two! Let's plan a week, hire a plane, find the herds, hire the skidoos, freeze our asses off, and split the meat. So one or two of us will get a bull and one or two might not. Who cares?! We'd have lived for a week!!

As a booking agent I shouldn't say this, but #$$^#!$ the outfitter, we can do this on our own. Peter in Ft. McM will help us get the areas to scout in the clear, a plane hire costs only $125 an hour....what say you? If y'all say naught, I'll go and kill a buff elsewhere...this is not to be done alone....

Frans

Rob, it's not us Canucks in general that have a problem, it's the powers that be. I guess they figure you won't be able to reesist the temptation of knocking over a liquor store once your allowed to roam around with a one hand gun in your mitts. Damn government! Anyway, I don't know about the other provinces or Territories having hunting hosts (or class C guides). Seems to me they used to. For sure here in Alberta, I've done it, but I don't know about the other places. Perhaps Daryl can enlighten us about the Yukon, and I still have friends in the NWT, so I'll call them when I get home and ask. Or it might be on their (the NWT, Icqualit, and whatever they're calling the third one) web site. Frans, I would join you, but I've played out in that weather lots, and I don't think my ticker would stand another go round. Hey John, turns out there is a Greek restaurant here in Bozeman. I'll give it a whirl this week. - Dan

Rob,

That reintroduction to the Yukon Flats should DEFINITELY occur. What is ironic about the fact that Alaska has a huntable herd of plains bison is that wood bison are native to Alaska and plains bison are not. I realize people have been saying this for years but it is a fact that the USFWS issues pertaining to wood bison are not going to be around very long. The issue is actaully not CITES but the Endangered Species Act. The USFWS has never, by tradition rather than written policy, allowed the importation of something covered by the ESA but, as I said, this may be changing. Hopefully, these changes will allow the reintroduction to take place in Alaska and we can get some more herds of these things running around native habitat. The existing herds have enough issues with their lack of genetic diversity, brucellosis, and bovine TB to also have to live with beaurocratic garbage!

Frans et al.,

Lets do this! There is nothing I would like to do more than a DIY bison hunt up there. I can call some of the bilogist folks up there too as I KNOW there are some splinter herds that have broken off that are fair game (literally).

WHO'S IN?!?!?!?! Northern Alberta In Febraury . . . bring your shorts and suncreen!

JohnTheGreek

[ 09-15-2003, 01:37: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

Off to bed, and to guide all coming week...I'm 95% sure in on this! One thing we need to keep in mind...the number of Albertans and the number of non-Albertans has to be equal! Hunter Hosts can take one hunter per year, two if one is a relative...I don't know if we can arrange some convenient marriages before that time ;-)

Frans

It's pretty easy Franz, poof!, he's a brother in law. You do have to sign a certified paper stating the relationship (both hunter host and hunter), but nobody checks. - Dan

You should check with Alberta Fish & Wildlife if a Hunter Host is even required for these hunts, as no lic. is needed. I have guided a good number of people on the Hunter Host or the Class "C" as it use to be called - both resident and non residents aliens. If the Hunter Host is required, do not misrepresent the facts on your application - people screwing with the system is why it got more restrictive a couple years ago.

I know this area where these Buff are and it is very wild and remote and not for the inexperienced at those temperatures, so you must be very well prepared. I can also tell you the success rate on Bulls is very very low. I know of one outfitter who has operated in their for the past 5 years and has killed only one Bull - the rest have been cows......

I would like to join you. It is not possible for me this winter, unfortunately. It will be 2004-2005 before I will be free again.

Daryl

Yukoner ... don't forget to get hold of me regarding those pheasants down here in Southern Alberta this fall.. Right now we are having a ridiculous wet snowstorm !!! Grrr! I know a chap that says that they hired a plane with skiis and went in and whacked a couple of bison some years ago.. They might even have been unclear of the park boundary ?? At least that is how the story goes... I'd give it a try in late December when I have holidays .. It would be great... And I'd even whack a cow.. I'm afraid that some of these varmints are diseased, however ... Something to remember if you get carried away and eat raw liver on the spot !!!

Richard,

I'd take a cow too and just be thrilled at the experience of being out there and doing what I was doing! I have never seen stats on how many are diseased up there but I would wager a great number have both Brucellosis and Bovine TB. The WBNP population has been falling for years and the disease problem is, of course, why they can be hunted outside the park. Neither the Alberta or NWT governments want the WBNP herds infecting the disease free herds (or hybridizing them with their plains bison genes) that they have spent so much money transplanting. Exactly why they put these healthy herds so close to WBNP is a mystery to me.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

[ 09-17-2003, 01:40: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

John, I hope they get things figured out here in AK with the woods bison, as I am going to be to old to hunt before I ever draw a tag.

Keep waiting for western Canada to secede so things might get a little more friendlier toward handgun hunters. A single shot TC with a 14" barrel is the weapon of choice of most gang bangers so I can see why they don't want me to come there and spend my money. Hah.

I am going to look into this Hunter Host thing as I have a hunting buddy in BC with horses that I can impose on. Might be worth pulling out and warming up the ole .375 H&H and .300 Wby for a hunt.

Back from the bush...

So about the bison and hunter hosts etc...I'll contact the President of the APOS about this, he should know. I hold a "2003 Big Game Guide's Designation" valid till March 31st, 2004, but not an outfitter designation...

Since bison is not game, there are no tags, it's not hunting, so do you need a Wildlife Identification Number for that? A Wildlife Certificate? An outfitter? A guide? A Hunter Host?

I'll try to find out.

Frans

Those are good questions Franz, and I'll be quite curious to see the answers. Have at 'er. - Dan

Here's my question to APOS:

"I've got a question on the bison in and around Wood Buff NP. They are not considered game, right? So for shooting them, do you need WIN, and Wildlife
Certificate? If you come here as a foreigner (say US citizen), do you need WIN + Wildlife Certificate? Do the rules on hiring an outfitter/guide or Hunter Hostfor non-residents and non-resident aliens apply to bison "shoots"?"

To put it bluntly, can I take an American out to the buff area and let him kill a bison, without an
outfitters designation?

And here's the answer:

"Buffalo outside of Wood Buffalo are open season without a license for anyone. Since there is no license you can't enter in Pope & Young or Boone And Crockett."

Leaves the matter of how you are going to get your guns into the country, if you are not "going on a hunt"

Frans

Hi Frans,

I would doubt very much that the left hand (Canadian Customs) would know what the right hand (wildlife dept) was doing with regard to gun import issues. I would personally risk it . . . but there isn't much I wouldn't risk to hunt buffalo.

JohnTheGreek

P.S.

The deadline to buy extra tags in Custer is the 22nd. Hows it looking for you? I tried to get them to wiggle on the price for a few of my clients down here and they wouldn't budge. DAMN IT!

John,

I guess it'll have to be one or the other..either wood buff or custer buff. I'm foolishly leaning towards the wood buff, the ones with the -40C and tuberculosis in them.

Frans

Frans,

I'm up for both if you are. . . name the time and place for the WBNP adventure if you can get enough people into it.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Any other takers besides Greek John and myself?

Frans

Interested yes. Able to go, no. Please let me know how it works out for you.

richard,

thanks for reminding me. I will get in touch.

Daryl