Hi, My son and I have been using .300s with 180 gr Rem CLs for years for Maine whitetails. Until last year I'd never had one fail to exit (usually with a .50 cal hole). But then the kid shot a really big deer and bullet wound up under off-side skin totally pancaked @ 115 gr retained. Well, he's done it again with same result, pancaked under off skin @ 130 gr residual.

Both deer were killed quickly, yes, but up here cover is thick, coyotes are plentiful, and we really don't want to chance leaving one overnight. So we are wondering if switching to a bullet more likely to exit 100% of the time would make sense and maximize blood trail?

For those with experience with TSX, I assume complete penetration on deer is the rule? What weight would you suggest for big whitetails to 250 yds from .300 Win and .300 WBY? We considered Partitions but they are distinctly less accurate in our rifles.

All advice appreciated. Thanks.

Sam

Ther's not much question that a Barnes will exit most of the time, especially on deer. I have only recovered one from an Elk and I've used Barnes since 1992.

You don't need more than the 130gr Barnes, but use the bullet weight that shoots the best in your rifles.

My buddies Vanguard in 300Weatherby did not care for the 168gr, but really loves the 180gr TSX, while the same buddies Sako 300 Win and another friends Browning 300WSM love the 168grs.

Since switching to Barnes, I have not had to track any game (yet).

In 30 cal, you really only should be considering 150-180 grain bullets. I use 180 grain in my 300 Win, but primarily use this rifle for elk. For deer, I would be more partial to 150 or 168 gr tipped TSX. Especially with hard recoiling rifles, the tip helps insure you don't get bullet damage in the magazine. I would probably start with the 150 grain option for deer only, but certainly test the 168 grain version and just go with the best accuracy.
If these bullets shoot well in your rifles, you won't be disappointed. I've taken over 150 head of game with the TSX bullets in a variety of calibers, and have been extremely impressed.
Bill

I have used the Barnes TSX in 7mm Mag & 7mm08 and they have been devastating on game out to 300 meters (338 yards). Yes it is reassuring - and they shoot well in my rifles.

I shot a big colour phase balck bear in BC at 307 yards and it was lethal. Same with deer in New Zealand.

In a 300 mag I would look at 165 gr to 180 gr bullets.

BUT - why change? Your results are typical of great bullet performance on deer - pancake under off side skin is what they are designed for. If you place the bullet in the heart lung area, you will kill the deer quickly. If you hit the front leg, you will still anchor it as long as the bullet and bone fragments enter the lunds. The TSX will not make a differnce if you miss the lungs.

Good luck

quote:

BUT - why change? Your results are typical of great bullet performance on deer - pancake under off side skin is what they are designed for. If you place the bullet in the heart lung area, you will kill the deer quickly. If you hit the front leg, you will still anchor it as long as the bullet and bone fragments enter the lunds. The TSX will not make a differnce if you miss the lungs.

I go along with this thought, and I am a fan of Barnes Bullets.

If you are concerned about the posibilitu of a deer moving off after a heart/lung shot, move your aiming poit a few inches forward and break the shoulders. A hit thru the shoulder does not in reality damage that much meat, and most deer and other critters have a real hard time pushing themselves along the ground.

Your post is similar to the recent discusion where the bullet actually did what it was designed to do, kill the animal, but because of the shooters own ideas of what type of performance he expected, he considered it bullet failure.

Fair enough. I understand the great rhetorical terminal ballistics argument: "at what point in the death of the animal did the bullet fail?". But I'm trying to maximize likelihood of blood trail. Perhaps I'm too simple-minded, but aren't two holes better than one? Or is the difference not that noticeable?

Sam

Sam

I always prefer two holes over one. The more air and fluid going out of a motor the faster it stops. Sometimes however a hunter needs to look at his successes, see if what he is using is that bad. I like having an exit wound so there will be a blood trail in case things go wobbly. However with 30 calibers and larger, instead of taking a heart/lung shot and hoping there is enough expansion and tissue damage for the animal to either drop or leave a subsrantial blood trail, taking a shoulder shot and breaking one or both shoulders, is going to get the critter off its feet. Placed right there will also be damage to the lungs and possibly the heart.

I have shot a buck with my 375H&H using 250 grain Barnes "X" Flat Base at about 45 yards taking out the whole top third of its heart and it still ran over 60 yards before going down. Had I put the bullet thru the animals shoulders he might have made it 10 feet.

If getting the animal off its feet as quickly as possible is your goal, whether you change to the "X" bullet or TSX or stay with the Core-Locts, change your aiming point and break the animal down and then finish it off.

Everyone is giving you true advice but I think we are kind of splitting hairs here. Both a TSX and a core lokt out of a .300 Win mag or Wby mag are going to kill a deer quickly every time if vitals are hit.

I think you answer your own question when you say that both deer were killed quickly with core loks.

I suspect that the size of the deer has less to do with a shoot through than the range he was shot at.

I have been shooting 200grn TSX's out of my .300 RUM for several years now and have taken everything from pronghorns to zebra with no bullet failures of any kind. One advantage of the TSX not mentioned is the fact that they generally do less damage to meat than lead core bullets because they don't frag. I've killed 5 pronghorns in the last few years and used the same 200grn TSX bullets I use for elk. I get smaller exit holes than my partners who shoot 30-06, .270 etc with lead core bullets. I high shoulder just about everything and lose little to no meat. I've taken elk, mule deer, antelope, black bear, kudu, zebra, springbok, oryx, whitetail, hogs etc. without a single issue.

Fantastic bullets that will always hold together, always exit and have never let me down.

I also am a fan of the Barnes TSX in all of the calibers I load for. My .375 shoots the 235 gr TSX at around 3000 fps, 1/2" groups. Kills everything DRT. Mr .300 RUM I use the 180's. One hole groups at 100. My .300 Win, I still use Hornady Interlocks 180 gr. My .30-06 still loves a Hornady 165 gr. PERFECT bullet performance according to someone way more knowledgable than me suggests that it flattens out on the offside hide. He says that it has expended 100 percent of it's energy inside the animal. The only better performance I could ask for is for it to make a tiny hole on the off side and fall straight to the ground. If that deer is hit in the vitals, it's dead. It might run a little way but it's dead.

Just a little something to chew on. I havn't had the oportunity to shoot truckloads of game like everyone else with the Barnes bullets but can tell you that with 160's out of a 7mm Rem Mag, and 115's out of my .25-06 or 100's out of a .257 Roberts, NONE fell where they stood. I aim for the top of the heart. I did shoot an elk through the neck with 200gr x's out of a .338WM at about 35 yards and it ran before it tipped over with both jugulars blown out.

An x or TSX isn't a majic wand. You'll still have to aim different. In fact the only flops I've gotten were with lead core bullets that expanded violently. Some passed through (Sierra & Hornady) while one in particular didn't. (Nosler BT) I quit using the BT as I found it inconsistant. Nate

Well, you've all given me alot to chew on. Sometimes, as you've noted, the "problem" really isn't a problem. Maybe I just needed to hear that from a group with far more experience than I. I've never lost a deer to those 180 CLs.

Punching the shoulder is something I had not even considered, b/c of the meat damage concern. But, yes, so long as you stay around the 1/3 up the chest level, there's little meat to lose there. But gosh, that clearly anchors them. Then, what better projo for punching bone than a TSX? Of course, I'd have to "reprogram" my 15 y/o! Always told him 1/3 up visualize the heart but avoid the shoulder.

Still thinking on it. Thanks to everyone for clearly a vast amount of experience, wisdom, and common sense. I really appreciate this site.

Sam

I started using TSX bullets about 6 years ago when I built a .375 RUM for a Zimbabwe Buffalo hunt. New rifle, new bullets. Both 270 and 300 gr TSX bullets work very well in that rifle, and I've had two very successful hunts in Africa with them.

Over the past 30 years, I've killed a small herd of Montana Elk with 180 gr Partitions at .300 Win velocities (3000 fps). My only complaint with those bullets was the recoil flattening the tips of the bullets in the magazine, and they created a very large bloodshot area around the bullet's path.

I'm a firm believer in the 1/3 up behind the shoulder shot, and I've killed most of my North American big game animals with that shot.

Several years ago, I bought a .300 Weatherby Vanguard, primarily for an Elk rifle. It shoots both 168 and 180 gr TSX bullets equally well. So far I've only hunted with the 168 gr TSX bullets at 3290 fps.

I've only killed 4 animals with this combination, a Blackbuck, a Scimitar horned Oryx, and an Aoudad in Texas, and a bull Elk here in Montana. All were 100-150 yd one shot kills and all were complete pass throughs.

I shot the Elk broadside, 1/3 up in the crease just behind his front shoulder. The 168 gr TSX bullet did not hit any bones. It made a .30 caliber entrance hole, and a 1"-1 1/2" exit hole. At the shot, the bull turned around, took two steps and fell dead. There was 10' of blood spray on the snow on both sides of his tracks.

When I skinned that bull, I was suprised to find only a few inches of bloodshot area around the wound channel compared to 10"-12" of bloodshot on each side of the wound channels of previous Elk that I had killed with 180 gr Partition bullets.

I don't shoot TSX bullets in all of my hunting rifles, and my .300 Weatherby is not my primary Deer and Antelope rifle. But I've been happy with the results of the TSX bullets on the 4 North American and 19 African animals that I've killed with them.

I think the amount of bloodshot meat is directly proportional to impact velocity.

I took a buck angling away with the .25-06 & 115 gr XLC's a few days ago and the bloodshot area was the worst yet. But it was only about 75 yards away. The off side had about a ten inch diameter area ruined. It is the closest shot with Barnes for me so far, but the worst bloodshot also. It exited the shoulder. Not a perfect shot but given the situation.... I shot one two years ago at a worse angle (same combo) but it exited in front of the shoulder and damaged very little. Nate

If you don't want blood shot meat don't shoot a deer in the meat.

This is the exit wound of a large bodied deer shot with a 165gr. Hornady SST. Muzzle velocity was about 2950 and the deer was shot at 30 feet.

The deer was shot broadside double lung behind both shoulders. The only meat that was lost was a little rib meat.

For what it's worth this deer ran 40 yards before it fell but I wasn't really worried about loosing it.

Wow! I never cease to be amazed by the vast combined experience brought to this forum.

Well, wouldn't you know it - my nephew just took his 2nd deer in real close, using 180 gr CLs in a .308 Win. DRT, of course, downward angle through shoulder blade actually tore heart apart. Est impact velocity under 2400 fps (18.5" bbl) but no exit.

Funny how I shot almost 30 animals with that bullet with 100% exit (various ranges, BTW) from .300s and now the last three we've used failed to exit. Statistical variation/small sample size, I suppose. I think we will make the switch and probably go with the 165 (or 168?) in the WBY. Later make the switch in my brother's .308 and '06 (150s?).

Again, thanks to all for the quality of your responses.

Sam

Sam,
Once you start using monolithics, you will never look back and ever use a lead cored bullet again. The TSX is an awesome bullet from Barnes which has proven itself on the toughest of game all around the world.
I failed to pick up whether you mentioned that you would be shooting with factory ammo loaded with TSX or if you will be reloading yourself.
It is almost impossible for a monolithic to fail, since there is nothing to break up, except for the petals, which you would want anyways. Weight retention should be no less that the high 80%.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
Hi, My son and I have been using .300s with 180 gr Rem CLs for years for Maine whitetails. Until last year I'd never had one fail to exit (usually with a .50 cal hole). But then the kid shot a really big deer and bullet wound up under off-side skin totally pancaked @ 115 gr retained. Well, he's done it again with same result, pancaked under off skin @ 130 gr residual.

Both deer were killed quickly, yes, but up here cover is thick, coyotes are plentiful, and we really don't want to chance leaving one overnight. So we are wondering if switching to a bullet more likely to exit 100% of the time would make sense and maximize blood trail?

For those with experience with TSX, I assume complete penetration on deer is the rule? What weight would you suggest for big whitetails to 250 yds from .300 Win and .300 WBY? We considered Partitions but they are distinctly less accurate in our rifles.

All advice appreciated. Thanks.

Sam

Your problem isn't your bullet, it's your expectations, and a TSX won't always exit I assure you.

Another culprit is the added velocity of your 300's... it may seem counter-intuitive, but often (depending on the bullet) added velocity reduces penetration... slow your 300's down to 308 Win levels and you'll likely get better penetration. Personally, I can't understand using a 300 on Maine woods bucks, but to each his own.

quote:

Another culprit is the added velocity of your 300's... it may seem counter-intuitive, but often (depending on the bullet) added velocity reduces penetration... slow your 300's down to 308 Win levels and you'll likely get better penetration. Personally, I can't understand using a 300 on Maine woods bucks, but to each his own.

A the saying says, your mileage may vary, but from my experiences with both a 300 Win Mag and a 300 Weatherby, I have nevver recovered a bullet from a deer or elk, did not matter if it was a Barnes or not, ranges from 100 yard to 300+. All were pass thrus with proper expansion. The shooter got enough penetration to kill the buck, just did not get an exit wound. How is slowing the bullet down going to produce better/more penetration I don't see that, especially if he sticks with what he is using?

This is another of those "Bullet Failures" based on an intrinsic desire of the shooter. He is wanting an exit wound so there will be a blood trail in case the critter decides he needs to be elsewhere before his body realizes he is dead. I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I look upon a non-exiting bullet as a partial failure, simply because things in the woods are rarely "Text Book" examples, too many variables.

Like Marius has already said ,once you go to the monolithics you will never go back to a lead core bullet. I've taken deer elk and moose with the 180 TSX in a 300 Wby and deer and elk with the 165 TSX in a308 Norma. The 168 gr bullets did not group as well in MY rifles so I stuck to the 165 & 180's. The 180 TTSX is also super in my 300 Rum. I would suggest you use whatever shoots best in your rifles. One bullet and your set for deer elk bears and moose.It don't get much better.

I like lead.

Marius, I'm planning on purchasing the heads and loading them myself.

The two bigger deer shot by my son dressed 218# and 208#. One was shot broadside, low in neck just ahead of shoulders @ 110 yds. Last one was hit @ 140 yds just behind left shoulder, centered a rib going in, quartered through chest punched diaphragm 2" from rib cage and came to rest under skin. My nephew's deer was shot with same bullet from a short-bbl .308 punching through shoulder blade, heart, but no exit.

I've killed quite a few smaller whitetails with that .300 WBY load from point blank to 325 yds (and a cow elk at 400 yds) and had exit with every one of them (including the elk, which I hit twice as ordered by my guide). Dunno, maybe my son is the problem?

"Based on an intrinsic desire of the shooter" is certainly correct. I fully realize only one of those 3 deer ran at all (35 yds). But I still would prefer a reliable exit hole. Sounds like I can get it with a 165 gr TSX, so am leaning that way.

Thanks again,

Sam

quote:

I think the amount of bloodshot meat is directly proportional to impact velocity.

With the same bullet, yes, however, some bullets will produce more bloodshot tissue than others. For exmple a rapid expanding varmint bullet vs. a sharp pointed full metal jacket bullet.

The 20+ elk that I shot with 180 gr Partition bullets at a muzzle velocity of 2990 fps produced much larger bloodshot areas than the bull elk that I shot with a 168 gr TSX bullet with a muzzle velocity of 3290 fps. ALL hits were broadside, most were behind the shoulder at ranges of 50 to 200 yds.

Most of the elk that I shot with the Partitions were shot before I had a computer and participated in these discussions so I didn't take any "blood and gore" photos of the bullet damage. I did, however snap a couple of pics of the entrance and exit wounds that the 168 gr TSX bullet made on the bull that I shot last year.

This first picture shows the bullet entrance hole through the skin (bottom arrow) and into the rib cage (top arrow).


The second picture shows the exit hole through the rib cage (top arrow) and through the skin (bottom arrow).


Note the very small bloodshot area in either photo.

quote:

If you don't want blood shot meat don't shoot a deer in the meat.

This is good advice, and is why I don't aim for the shoulder on North American game. However, many of the elk that I shot with Partitions had a bloodshot area of 10 to 12" around the bullet hole, even if no bone was hit.

I think the Partitions are designed with a soft front half that rapidly expands and fragments thus very quickly transfering much of the bullet's energy to the entrance area of the animal. I often found the rear half of the Partitons just under the skin on the off side of the animal. ALL of the bullet's energy had been transfered to the animal.

On the other hand, TSX bullets are designed not to fragment and the bullet retains much of it's energy, and penetrates deeper, often passing completely through the animal. Of the 23 animals that I have shot with TSX bullets, the bullets completely passed through all but 5 of those animals.

Your photos are clear proof as to why I use Barnes bullets for my hunting, you can practically eat right up to the hole.

quote:

If you don't want blood shot meat don't shoot a deer in the meat.

This is good advice, and is why I don't aim for the shoulder on North American game. However, many of the elk that I shot with Partitions had a bloodshot area of 10 to 12" around the bullet hole, even if no bone was hit.
[/QUOTE]

Buffybr,

I think that we are saying the same thing just in a different way. I Agree 100% a TSX is probably one of the best choices for an elk. All I am saying is if he is shooting a deer with an lead core bullet and 2 out of 3 are dropping in their tracks and the one is going 35 yards what is the problem? Also a square broadside lung shot does not ruin any meat because you are not shooting any.

quote:

Originally posted by MN Hunter:
All I am saying is if he is shooting a deer with an lead core bullet and 2 out of 3 are dropping in their tracks and the one is going 35 yards what is the problem?

If I showed you the terrain we hunt I think you'd understand. Kid's first deer (taken with .243-100gr partition) ran just over 100 yds despite a perfect hit and full penetration. It was the kid's eyes that found the slightest pink tinge on patchy leftover snow.

Yes, the .300s usually do better but I think you still need to figure on a outside maximum of 125 yds for a reasonably placed (not perfect) shot. It doesn't take much unappreciated angle, plus a few inches to rear, to end up hitting back of just one lung and into the abdomen. That's a killing shot, but not necessarily a DRT killing shot. Most of the property slopes down to the Piscataquis River, dying animals run downhill too darn well.

Every so often over years I've had to draw 125 yd semicircles from a spot, then go bird-dogging. If you are used to open country you might be amazed at how difficult it is to completely cover that semicircle. One year a permittee (friend in LE) lost a spike on our place. Deer had traveled just 100 yds, but I literally walked within 4 feet of the carcass and missed it. Even if we can find one next AM, a night out can be too long b/c of coyotes.

I'm asking alot when I say I'd like full penetration, good bloodtrail, plus lots of power/pound.

Thanks,

Sam

quote:

I'm asking alot when I say I'd like full penetration, good bloodtrail, plus lots of power/pound.

No your not. Because of the conditions you have described concerning the terrain/brush etc. etc. you hunt in, that is why I recommend the shoulder shot breaking the animal down and getting it off its feet ASAP.

Try some of the TSX of different weights, 150-165-168-180 and see which one your rifle likes the best as far as accuracy goes. Once you figure out which bullet/load works best from your rifle, then look at where you are trying to place your shots.

A high shoulder shot, clipping the spine will drop the animal on the spot. Won't actually kill it, ot will require a finisher, but the animal will be paralysed from the neck back and will not get up and go anywhere.

I shoot 180 gr TSX bullets out of my 300 WM. I'm pushing these bullets with 69.9 grains of IMR7828 for a not so impressive 2815 fps, but this is extremely accurate in my rifle. I produced this load specifically for a trip to Africa last summer. So far, this load has taken the following: 2 kudu (168 and 225 yards), black wildebeest (271 yards), common duiker (30 yards), blesbok (70 yards), mountain reedbuck (125 yards), scimitar horned oryx (265 yards), blackbuck (75 yards) and bull elk (~200 yards).

I've yet to recover a bullet as all have been complete pass thrus. The tracker/skinner did find a petal on the exit wound from the second kudu that was taken at 225 yards. Of these 9 animals, the blesbok and scimitar horned oryx required an additional shot. The blesbok because of the initial shot being a Texas heart shot and the scimitar because of a bad first shot that hit too low and broke both front legs and just missing the chest cavity.

I've also noticed minimal meat damage from the use of the Barnes bullets compared to the Nosler Partitions I use in other rifles. I look an addax in August with my 7mm-08 using 140 gr Partitions. I wish I would have taken a picture of the blood shot between the skin and body of the addax! I took it squarly on the shoulder and the blood shot portion went all the way back to the hind quarter. It was something I'd never seen before.

I'll post a nice neat little picture of the blackbuck I took last year off the exit wound when I get off my wife's computer and on mine.

I don't think you'll be disappointed in your decision to move to the Barnes bullets! I'm a firm believer.

One of the nicest bloodtrails I ever had the pleasure of following was from a 376 Steyr shooting the 230gr Speer (I believe that was the weight). If I remember right the velocity was about 2800, and that bullet just punched a big hole through both sides. Very little bloodshot meat, and LOTS of blood sprayed out both sides. Sounds like an excuse for another rifle to me! If it's really that thick and shots would be <100yds on average, why not go big and slow?

I would try 165-168gr. If you do not like them, go to the 150's. Monometals like speed.

I have recovered two 110gr TSX, one 130gr TSX, and one 130gr GMX out of my 270. Every one that I have recovered went through the stomach or have penetrated full length. I have no idea how many deer/antelope I have shot with those combinations.

I have never recovered a 53gr TSX shot out of my 22-250 after using it on over three dozen deer/antelope.

So, as you can tell, I am a big proponent of TSX/monometal bullets. Here are a couple of my thoughts.

I think you will have a higher chance of getting complete pass throughs than regular cup and core bullet.

I think that animals shot with monometals tend to run a little farther. Unless they are structurally broken down.

Another thought I have is this. Depending on shot distance, you may be better served with a bigger diameter cartridge. Heavier bullets will increase your chance of having two holes, and they will be bigger holes.

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
If I showed you the terrain we hunt I think you'd understand. Kid's first deer (taken with .243-100gr partition) ran just over 100 yds despite a perfect hit and full penetration. It was the kid's eyes that found the slightest pink tinge on patchy leftover snow.

Yes, the .300s usually do better but I think you still need to figure on a outside maximum of 125 yds for a reasonably placed (not perfect) shot.

Sam,

If you want to anchor a deer for a last light of the day shot so it doesn't run down your big hill then by all means listen to Crazyhourseconsulting and shoot a TSX through both shoulders or the spine and watch him fall to the ground!

But... a 100 grain partition from a .243 is not what you asked about. It was a 300 win mag shooting core loks? As far as thick cover goes I have never hunted in ME but I suspect that it is very similar to Northern MN where I hunt. In fact when you are talking about 125 yard maximum shots that seems extremely far for thick cover like I am used too. Either way I am not trying to say that shooting a TSX and shooting at front shoulders is not an effective way to take whitetails. I am just saying that if you have never lost a deer in years of what you have been doing I am not sure how much you can improve on that.

My question to you is why are you and your son always shooting your deer in the last light of the day? I believe ME rifle season runs most of November during the rut like here in MN I would think if those big boys are moving around chasing does statistically it would be very difficult to only be seeing them at the last light of the day year after year. If you have some secret grunt call or something that brings them in every time you use it at dusk please send me a PM

quote:

Originally posted by MN Hunter:
But... a 100 grain partition from a .243 is not what you asked about. It was a 300 win mag shooting core loks? As far as thick cover goes I have never hunted in ME but I suspect that it is very similar to Northern MN where I hunt. In fact when you are talking about 125 yard maximum shots that seems extremely far for thick cover like I am used too. Either way I am not trying to say that shooting a TSX and shooting at front shoulders is not an effective way to take whitetails. I am just saying that if you have never lost a deer in years of what you have been doing I am not sure how much you can improve on that.

My question to you is why are you and your son always shooting your deer in the last light of the day?

Back in the '70s I shot my first several deer in ME with a .22-250 and 55, 63, 70 gr Sierra/Speer heads. I didn't know thing one about deer or deer cartridges. But that was in an open field and I could see where they were going. None ever ran more than 125 yds. Flash forward - we own a place just 10 miles from my parents. We're looking over a very nice 150 yd square opening. All around is really thick, nasty stuff downhill to the river. The .243 experience was singular........ie., once was enough to convince me not to try again. Minimal blood and 100+ yd run despite double lung (high) and aorta clipping. Not the best approach for this setup. I was relieved when the kid wanted to switch to the .300 as his next deer dressed out 218#.

I know what you're asking,ie., just how much of a problem do I have? But, like most here, I'm always looking to improve (if possible).

BTW, mostly we've taken them in the AM. The last was kinda funny. Kid came home at 4P and I showed him a brand new rub (previous night) not 50 feet from the barn. He asked: "can I go out". I said "you only have 45 minutes of legal time". Whining ensued. He prevailed. Sat down at 4:15....I was sitting in a gazebo with a book watching......4:30 bang. B/c it was late I wanted to get to it right away. Happily it only got 15 feet into surrounding cover (35 yds total run) b/c he made a great shot given angle. Sure wish I knew a foolproof way to call them in. Both the kids' last two deer were bigger than any I've shot in a lifetime at this. Think it's time for him to let me shoot one.

So I've decided to try the 150 and 165 gr TTSX heads next season. Ordered some "wipe-out" cleaner, too (I'm a cleaning fanatic).

Matt and SDh, I'm not falling for that one. I already have too many (incl. 5 .300s). Going to try a monolithic in .308 first.

Sam

Sam,

These are the only pitures I have taken of the wounds from the use of the 180 gr TSX bullets out of my 300 WM.

The blackbuck was taken at roughly 75 yards. As you can see from the pictures, he was quartering away. Target was the middle of the opposite shoulder.

Entrance can be seen in this picture.



As the bullet passed thru, it sucked a portion of the lungs out of the exit wound.



The exit wound was a nice neat round hole on the center of the opposite shoulder. The buck ran/whobbled about 25 yards from the shot location.



I didn't take a picture of the buck after skinning him, but I can say meat damage was very minimal to the shoulder with the exit wound.

Good luck!

Intersting picture of the Blackbuck with the lung sticking out of the exit.

The very first Elk I shot with a 140gr Barnes X, in 1992 with my 270Win, had a chunk of fat sticking out by her right hip joint area, which was the exit. She was quartering towards me and I hit her just behind the left shoulder @175yds, so I got about 3-4ft of penetration. I was impressed.

Graybird, That does it, I'm sold. That is exactly what I'm looking for from the .300s. Thanks, Sam

quote:

So I've decided to try the 150 and 165 gr TTSX heads next season. Ordered some "wipe-out" cleaner, too (I'm a cleaning fanatic).

Matt and SDh, I'm not falling for that one. I already have too many (incl. 5 .300s). Going to try a monolithic in .308 first.

You won't be disappointed, just trying to be an enabler the with the bigger caliber suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
Graybird, That does it, I'm sold. That is exactly what I'm looking for from the .300s. Thanks, Sam

Good luck working up a load. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the results!

I have seen and know of Barnes failures. I have had 3 failures as I recall, one with TSXs early on, although I eventually found the animals and in each case the bullets HP pinched shut on bone I suppose it was on bone or so it appeared..

I have had 100% success with GS Customs Monolithics, Woodleighs and I am a big fan of Noslers, and if banging up the points is a problem then buy the protected Point Nosler.

That said, I have never had a problem with the Round Nose or spitzers Rem Corelokts on deer, elk or plainsgame, From time to time even a monolithic will stop on off side skin for various reasons, and many hunters prefer for a bullet to expend all its energy that way inside the animal..I am an two hole advocate as I like those big time blood trails even if the animal runs a bit further. If I had a corelokt expanding too much then I would opt for a heavier Cordlokt bullet, like a 180 in the 06 or 300 and perhaps slow it down to 2700 FPS on Whitetail..

Ray, You know, until last year I'd had uniformly excellent results (to me, this includes making two holes) with 180 PSPCLs. I have nowhere near the experience of many folks here. But all of a sudden I have 3 consecutive no-exit kills. (Yes, I know, they were kills) Maybe it's just statistics, ie., I was just due?

The last was my nephew's 145# dressed 6pt that he took @ 35 yds with a 18.5" bbl .308 RSI using Rem factory 180 gr CLs. Entry was posterior scapula and rib cage angling down nearly broadside. I didn't go digging for the slug, but I am certain it did not break shoulder/long bones on the opposite side. Now I think it is very safe to say that MV in that gun is well under 2500 fps, and probably less than 2400 fps.

I understand your point and kinda hate messing with success (even if it's not perfection). Seems like all bullets are compromises. So I will work up the TTSXs in just my gun first before making changes with the kid's.

I have mixed feelings about NPs. I've used them with success on elk and moose. I'm pretty sure the NP saved the day on a raking shot from nearly dead behind on the elk. I never could get NPs under 1.5 MOA. The CLs do much better than that in these 700s. Accuracy is part of my confidence in the rifle.

Thanks, Sam