As of this morning (Thursday, November 2nd 2,006) the Elk were bugling up a storm here in SW Montana!
As my main Elk Hunting partner and I chased all the Deer (Whitetails and Mulies!) out of our favorite Goose Hunting field and began setting up his ""Big Foot" Goose decoys this morning, we were thrilled to hear at least 35 to 40 full out bugles from a herd of 240 Elk just across a small river (500 yards away!) from us!
We were both amazed!
He has already filled his Montana Bull tag with a nice 6 pointer but I was all twitchie and alert in the pre-dawn darkness listening to bugle after bugle - my Elk tag was STILL in my pocket - uncut!
My partner, who spent the WHOLE archery season afield trying to get Bulls to bugle back at him, began the discussion this morning of how he (as of this year!) is now a nonbeliever in the "amount of sunlight reaching the retina" scientific explanation of "when the Elk rut starts"!
He observed and relayed to me that the Elk did not bugle til very late in September and only once it got quite cold at night.
I semi-concurred with this observation of his.
One reason I tend to agree with him is because I spent an unusually high amount of time afield this whole September myself - Moose and Elk Hunting and always in GREAT Elk country!
The Elk simply started bugling in earnest, here in SW Montana, much later than normal!
My partner thinks 4 weeks late - I think 3 weeks later than "normal" (which for decades had been around the first of September)!
Anyway once the light began to allow for observation of the Elk herd I became "sure" the Bulls were still rutting!
November 2nd - for Pete's sake!
Observations: Bulls were chasing each other, Bulls were bugling, Bulls were trying to cut Cows out of the main herd, several Bulls were seen "jousting" vigorously, some Bulls had recently been in wallows and the Cows were acting "coy" and flightey - you know, like they do during the rut!
Most of these actions ceased once I called in the first flight of Canadian Geese and we "unloaded" on them!
Our first shots were taken right at 7:20 A.M. and our last "limiting out" shots were taken at 7:45 A.M.!
The Elk had moved only 200 yards more distant as we banged our way to a "limiting" halt!
When I hiked back to get my VarmintMobile and returned to pick up the decoys I used my binoculars to scan the huge herd of Elk. There were four or five 6 point Bulls and about 20 raghorns and spikes in the herd!
Unfortunately the rancher won't allow Elk Hunting in his fields.
Drat!
Just thought I would pass this along for your perusal and observations.
Incidentally the Wildfowling resource in Montana is ABSOLUTELY underused and wonderful!
We had SO much "tonnage" of Geese (these were the BIG Canadians I am sure!) that we decided not to shoot our limits of 7 Mallards apiece!
It would simply have been to much!
Our Labs were "Johnny On The Spot" during the Hunt and they were shivering as well - not just because of the 20 degree temperature at sunrise but because of all the honking and bugling!
We were lucky it was so warm this morning as yesterday it was minus 2 degrees at sunrise!
Long live Montana!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

nice work on the honkers, bull i shot bugled at me on the 10th of oct,2 inches of fresh snow and a chilly morning.not normal for n.wy.but it has been my experience when you have a full moon early in sept.(1st-5th) the rut will be late.and a study of elk calving reported in the news today stated 70% of the individual herd will calve within 6 days to protect the from predation. so flip side of coin is that crazy, magical week of sept. when the bulls are going off. same 6 days less gestation??? anyone know how long is a cow elk' cycle/heat

Ravenr: I think 28 day cycles are the norm for Deer, Elk, Moose and other creatures of that size.
Maybe the "second" (or third?) rut is on now?
Anyway I saw what I saw and we were somewhat shocked.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmitGuy

Granted this is the latest I've heard of elk bugling. A co-worker said they heard a bull bugle one time on the morning of October 31st.
It's called a 21 day estrus, as you probable already know.
Good Hunting

Steve

P.S. The only good wolf is a dead wolf!!!

Heard the same thing here today in NW CO.
At daylite (cow hunting)we caught a big herd coming back from the hay meadows and 5 or 6 bulls were sounding off.
On another ranch when I took my hunters that start Sat. in atnoon 2 bulls where talking.
A very strange year.

Thats crazy...

I've heard elk bugle just about all times of the year, but rutting activity like that is strange.

The first bull I shot with my bow was the 7th of Oct. I've heard them going nuts and chaseing cows as late as opeing day of rifle season in MT wich is usually the 3rd sunday in Oct, but never any later. That is strange. To bad you coudn't have wacked that sucker.

poorly worded question,what i guess i ment to ask the crowd was how long are they receptive to the bulls, i know they cycle/28 but they won't accept a bull if they are not at peak estrus.those that don't "catch" will re-cycle 28 days later.how long is that peak?

Ivan: I concur with you regarding your hearing Elk year round, as I have witnessed that myself - but those vocalizations in the other 11 "off months" were most often just single bugles and more often, what I have heard were barks, chortles and grunts or "wimpy" bugles.
Our observations yesterday were remarkable in the accompanyment of so much other "rutting" type activity!
Ivan, you also touched on a somewhat well kept Elk Hunting secret - I archery Hunted Elk in Montana for 20+ years and I quickly learned that the last week of September and the first week of October often produced the most rut induced "madness" for the Bulls! Thus making them somewhat easier to get them in close or to get close to them!
Plus I would take advantage of that trend every year and go right from Elk Bugle Hunting with archery gear to the Antelope Rifle opener (which opened this year on October 8th!
See there is a method to my madness!
I just had a meeting with two Elk Hunters that travel each year from the Bitterroot Valley of Montana over to my neck'o'the woods to Hunt Elk.
They both remarked on hearing Elk Bugle in the last several days prior to my mentioning the same to them.
They have been here for more than two weeks (retired) and not only got two Elk but one Deer and four Sage Grouse!

Ravenr: I am re-reading my voluminous book "Elk Of North America" by Thomas and Towell published by Wildlife Management Institute and Stackpole Books, 1982 - to see if I can answer your specific question, "how long the Cows are receptive at each occurrence of estrus".
I don't know offhand but when and if I find out I will relay it to you here.
Time passes as I search - aha - in short I have found this so far (page 280 - 281 from the above cited reference) "For conception to occur, copulation must take place during the short period of sexual receptivity of the Cow Elk. This (receptivity period) may be as short as 12 hours or less"!
Another scientific source stated this "receptivity period to be as long as 15 hours.
So it seems 12 to 15 hours is a possible answer.
Then the text continues with this "If fertilization does not occur, a second estrus occurs 21 days later". "This in turn may be followed by a third estrus and one cow Elk exhibited a fourth estrus"!
Ravenr: I am still perusing my books and if I find anything more relevent I will add it.
I wonder if this though answers your question?
I wonder if the Bulls gather harems and do their rutting activities just to keep the Cows "around" while they wait for this 12 to 15 hour "receptivity" time slot.
Only 1 percent of all Elk births are of twins!
I knew it was not the norm but thought it was more prevelent than that.
Interesting.
I like Elk.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Ivan, you also touched on a somewhat well kept Elk Hunting secret - I archery Hunted Elk in Montana for 20+ years and I quickly learned that the last week of September and the first week of October often produced the most rut induced "madness" for the Bulls

Congrats to your buddies. What flavor of elk and deer did they kill? Did the sage grouse come from the SW corner? I havne't seen a sage hen in years.


Shsssssss Good info though.

From my own expereince I see the rut like this... I basically break it up in 3 parts. Pre rut, 'the peak' and the post rut. It seems like they are seperated by about 3 weeks on either side of peak (or as you reserched 21days). IMO the hardest time to kill a big bull or even get close to him is during the peak. He's occupied with tang and could care less about anything else. Now the little satallite bulls are looking to cash in this time of year and this seems to be when the majority get whacked.

The first cows will come into estrus around the first week of September or last week of August. Only a few however, the majority come in about 3-4 weeks later, or around the 21-24th ish in my area. Its been my experience that this is not the best time (the peak) to call in big bulls as they are glued to cows as opposed to looking for it i.e. or 'calling' for it. Which makes sense because of the such sort window that they are in heat. (deer are exactly the same BTW) IMO the best time to call in a big love sick bull is the pre and post part of the rut.

I love hunting the peak though, just because I get to hear and see so many more elk. I hunt meat rather than horns so I give myself the best opportunity notch my tag, but if I was serrious about killing a big bull I would hunt the first two weeks of september when they're out 'trowling'.

sounds like you guys have piled a few tan-sides,figured the "come and get me big fellow" time was hours.hormones and secretions in prep for those hours may trigger the cow gathering by bulls,and moon phase control that trigger.
the bugler this year was #50 and got a fun ticket for #51.good luck on the mt.hunt

You boys down there in SW montana seem to be getting a better hunting season than us boys around Central MT. I haven't got a crew put together to chase waterfowl, but we have had luck chasin pheasants, huns, and sharptail.

If you need someone to remove some elk for you I need to fill my General tag. This is my first elk season and the elk country here is being overrun by flyboys (Airforce) and the others in mass migration from Great Falls.

If you're heading south to the L Belts you bet you're gonna have plenty of attention.

I lived in GF for 15 years and there are much better places to head than south of town.

It'll take you some time and such, you can be for getting away from a goodly amount of those fellas if one is in the want.

Good luck to ya

Mark D

Just got off my deer hunt in southern NM. Elk were still bugling here too..This was in lower elevations too, where I have never seen elk before. Have hunted same place for 20yrs. Pretty cool to hear though

Ivan: I took two limits of Sage Grouse this year one in the Blacktail Valley (east fork) on the opener and then a little later the other limit in the Medicine Lodge Valley.
My friends got their Sage Grouse near Argenta just recently. Along with their Elk and a 3x3 Muley.
I am on hold right now waiting for the "gumbo" to dry up over in north central Montana so I can go pack out two Big Bulls for my partners, who got lucky on the special tags!
I have kind of put my season on hold trying to be available to help these guys with their "special tags" - last time I am gonna let that happen!
I ain't gettin no younger myself!
Hopefully I have 8 more "good" Hunting seasons left in me?
I went out locally here last night on a "sight seeing" type Hunt and there is a herd of 520 Elk on private land and we heard about 8 bugles in 5 minutes from them.
More later - dinner bell!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I just came home from elk hunting with my wife, the bulls were bugling like crazy, we saw several BIG ones ,we were cow hunting and will go back in the morning, a friend got one, my wife had hit it but the other woman finished it off, we were hunting with the warden and that was that, last shot owns the elk.. But we saw several hundred head out in the sage brush....