Ladies and Gentlemen:

I've done a fair amount of research on this topic, but would like some more information.

What effects have you seen in your locale on the game population like mule deer, elk, etc. that were caused by wolf predation?

If you have detailed descriptions of the predation that you don't want to post publicly in this forum, please feel free to PM me.

I think many of you know my position on this animal, so I won't reiterate it here.

Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale

I have a small honey hole that I can always count on finding some elk living in the area. Three years ago I didn't draw my archery tag, so I headed up to this little honey hole to hopefully get some elk meat for the long cold Wyoming winter. When I got back into the area every elk and moose track that I crossed (and that wasn't many) there was at least one wolf track on top of the elk or moose track. I had killed a Bull in this area every year that I hunted. Plus the Wyoming Game and Fish sold 1500 cow/calf tags, every year the number of tags dropped. 2009 they were down to 150 cow/calf tags. Not only are we loosing our game herds the Game and Fish in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are loosing money, and for them to make the money needed to try and keep our Game herds in good shape our license keep going up and up.

I can't imagine how many Outfitters and small buisness have been hurt by the over population of the wolves. Many hunters looking for a elk hunt will book a hunt down in Arizona or New Mexico because the last time they hunted here in Wyoming they werent seeing the game they had in the past.

Thank You

Steve

Yale,
Unlike some of the Eastern game experts that post here, there are a few of us that live in Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho that have posted all along of the tragedies that the wolf "re-introduction" has had on our big game herds.

A simple drive in Yellowstone NP from Gardiner to Cooke City will show the devastation the wolves have had on the elk there. Twenty years ago, in the summer it would be common to see hundreds of elk, several moose, and probably bighorn sheep in 3 or 4 locations. In the winter you would see thousands of elk and would definitely see sheep in those locations.

On that same drive in the winter of 2009 and summer of 2010, you are lucky to see a few elk in the summer, and probably won't see any moose or sheep. In the winter, you might see a few hundred elk, maybe a few sheep, and probably no moose.

I did a post a while back on the reduction in Montana hunting licenses in 2010 compared to previous years and like for moose, many units have been closed and there are something like 79 less moose licenses in SW Montana. In the 35 years that I've lived in Montana, 2010 is the first year that there are exactly ZERO late Gardiner elk licenses, and only 30 general season cow elk licenses. Prior to the wolves, there were thousands of late tags and hundreds of general season cow tags.

IMO the wolf "re-introduction" set big game management back 100 years, and has destroyed one of the greatest successes of big game management in the history of the Western United States -- the comeback of Rocky Mountain Elk.

It wouldn't have been so bad if the US F&WS had kept to their original plan of 30 breeding pairs and 150 total wolves in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.

See my post in the other "wolf" topic section. It appears that wolves have largely run the elk out of the Chamberlain basin in Idaho. It's not surprising. Elk are adaptive animals. Man ran them off the plains into the mountains and wolves are now running them out of the more benign mountain areas and turning them to areas where they will eventually act more like mt. sheep than traditional elk.

I live in SW Montana and have for all my life (50 years) I have been hunting big game elk and deer since I was old enough to get a licence. Where I live I am 15 miles from a major elk winter range. I spend an average of 30+ days a year hunting elk and deer in and around the area. I have watched the elk herd build over the years to a point where the fish and game was issuing 600 cow permits in order to keep the elk numbers down to a number that the range would support. During this building process we had fires, droughts, floods, logging and just about every kinds of disaster that could cause harm to the elk and we never had any drop in elk numbers. We had a hard time killing enough elk to keep the numbers down. The fish and game kept making the seasons more liberal and issuing more cow tags and we still had a hard time keeping the numbers down.

Then 4 years ago a wolf pack "discovered" the elk herd. In the last 4 years the number of elk has dropped by 75%. The fish and game has we are way to low on elk and have cut the cow permits to nothing! Not a one! and they have restricted the seasons allot. After watching the elk for over 40 years build up regardless of what we hunters or natural disasters had done and see it all crash after the wolfs found it, it is very hard for me to come up with any other cause than the wolf. The only variable that has changed is the wolf.

So anyone who says the wolf don't have an impact on the elk come to my place and I can show you first hand.

MT

Thank you all for your informative input.

I just had a long, detailed conversation with a hunting friend from Cody, Wyoming. His statements and observations about the wolf predation comport with all of your assessments.

I am going to do something about this.

Maybe the Big Game Forever group is the appropriate medium to push the cause.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

My wife's family and I have some hunting land in northern Minnesota. This is the extension of a hunting camp going back to 1933. I have hunted the area since 1983.
We have always heard a few wolves at night. There has always been some spoor seen. The last five years or so, hunting has gotten progressively harder. There are fewer deer, and they are way more skittish, hanging in larger groupings in harder to reach areas.
The amount of wolf sign has increased dramatically.
The state commisioned a study three or four years ago, and the bottom line is that something should be done to control the population, before it gets problematic in areas with more people, and agriculture. It has been politically impossible to open a season, or permit trapping.
There was a reason they were persecuted to the point of near extermination. They are economic competitors.
It would be nice if the population could be controlled before it is completely out of hand. I don't forsee it any time soon.

When the population of wolves is left unchecked, they are able to dramatically outpace the reproductive rate of their prey. Deer, Elk, Moose, Livestock reproduce much slower. If one compares the rate of wolf kills to support a growing pack to the rate of fawn or calf recruitment, the ungulates are way, way, behind. They, the wolves will have sheer numbers on their sides very quickly. It is too late now in some areas. Some elk, deer and moose herds are being devastated. Whats going to happen when they have no natural prey?
DW

The wolves in Idaho have devastated the elk herds and caused massive relocations. The numbers are completely out of hand.... way above the agreed upon reintroduction levels and the green folk keep raising the number and going to court to stop the hunting. Last fall was the first wolf hunt in Idaho and many were taken. They are huge. The hunting of wolves this fall is stopped by another law suit.

Many have been taken close to larger population centers as the wolves will follow the game herds down as the snows come.

Many elk hunting areas have been wiped out. I used to hunt in an area with archery equipment where the biggest problem was the size of the elk herds were 50-100 critters with 100-200 eyes that made getting close a real problem. We would bust up the large herds and then as they would attempt to recollect try to hunt them. My buddy rode his horse for 3.5 days in that same area recently and saw one cow during that ride.

One of the biggest problems is the Wolves are killing 4-5 times as many games animals as expected. The eastern treehuggers assumed the wolves would only kill what they needed to survive, but that's not the case. They kill for sport, kill to train their young, and leave alot of dead, partially eaten critters. I remember being able to see over 1000 elk at time in Yellowstone. The though of those great herds being reduced by 90% is depressing.

Mt ELkhunter

Which part of SW Montana are you from, I’m from Darby ever one back home I talk to says the same as you looks like I need to find a new place to retire.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I just learned a bit more yesterday after conversing with a hunting friend in Cody, Wyoming.

He told me that the present wolves introduced in Yellowstone and Idaho are not related directly to the wolves that resided in the Rocky Mountains prior. The new wolves are 150-200 lb. Canada grey wolves and the indigenous wolves were a smaller cousin and apparently not as rapacious (efficient?) as the new predator.

I am going to do something to stop this as soon as possible.

This is really starting to piss me off.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Hey Chris, Here is the other side of the Wolf coin. First off, there are no Wolves in SouthEastern KY.

There has been a small herd of Elk in Western KY for many years at the Land-Between-the-Lakes(Kentucky Lake and Lake Barkley). But that is besides the point.

Back in the early 1990's a group got together to discuss the restoration of Elk to SouthEastern KY. The result of many meetings resulted in vast acerages of "Reclaimed Coal Mine Fields" being planted with appropriate "Brouse"(no Aspens) for the Elk Reintroduction.

The Ultra-Leftist Radical-Liberal democrat voting fools have had plenty of ink on how horrible the Strip Mining is and how it totally destroys the land. Of course, you can nearly always count on the exact opposite being TRUE when these fools begin their rants. And they were totally WRONG about the SouthEastern KY Reclaimed Land.

In 1997 the very first Reintroduction happened with the release of "Seven" Elk. The next 3 years had releases of more Elk(I don't remember the exact numbers).

Then there was a HUGE concern about some Diseases getting accidentally introduced "if" more Elk were brought in, so the transplanting of Elk stopped. That would have been about 2001-2003.

Today there are well over 10,000 Free Range Elk that have Bred from those meger beginnings. Elk are moving into the adjoining states and returning to land they once occupied many years ago. And 1000 Kill Permits will be issued in KY again this year.

No Wolves + great Brouse + a lot of open acerage mixed with vast woods + responsible F&W Management = lotsa Elk!!!

Dear Hot Core:

Same deal in western Pennsylvania.

Some of the biggest racks in the world based upon the limestone substrata.

You should see some of the photographs one of my friends has of these elk.

Finally, the Pennsylvania Game Commission is reintroducing wild pheasants into Pennsylvania. Its about time.

Maybe we can transplant the Pennsylvania and Kentucky elk back into Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in 10-15 years after the wolves have eaten them all up.

I still think we should gather up all the wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming and dump them in Fairmont Park in Philadelphia. It would solve the over population of white tail deer in Philadelphia and its surrounding suburbs.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Hello All:

It would be interesting to take a poll among us Cody people & see how many favor having the wolves...I'd venture hardly any. The officials even admit that the Yellowstone Elk have been drastically reduced in numbers...one eetimate was from a 16,000 herd to 6,000. In time all hunting will be gone...a rancher friend has found Moose calf kills by Wolves too.

We who live & hunt here in the Rocky Moutain States will agree with MTHunter, Yale & all the other anti-wolf people. And the fact that wolves also will kill indisciminately...not just for food like a Grizz will.
They are a plague on our wildlfie & affect us hunters directly.

There was a good reason why they were eraticated in the first place...it was sheer idiocy to re-introduce them.

Best Regards,

White Bison

I can not believe I left this out. Any of you Anti-Wolf folks who have Friends, Relatives, Neighbors and Buddies who "Voted for clinton" should remember he and his hand picked man babbit are responsible for the Wolf Reintroduction.

When you hear them cry and whine about Wolves, it is always a great time to remind them that THEY are responsible for the Wolf being put back into the system.

quote:

YALE - "He told me that the present wolves introduced in Yellowstone and Idaho are not related directly to the wolves that resided in the Rocky Mountains prior. The new wolves are 150-200 lb. Canada grey wolves and the indigenous wolves were a smaller cousin and apparently not as rapacious (efficient?) as the new predator."

Correct! These transplanted Canadian Grey wolves are huge! Here are a couple of pictures of a male that was shot a couple of years ago by the Idaho F&G with approval of U.S.F.W.S. It and its good buddies had been killing livestock about 45/50 miles to the east/northeast of Boise, Idaho, in the Danskin Mtn. Range.

NOTE: The pilot of the chopper in the blue jump suit is 6'4" tall. The rifleman who shot the wolf is not as tall but the size of the wolf in relation to the two men gives ons some perspective as to the size of these wolves.





I recently watched a 30 minute interview on the local Boise PBS station in which one of the Id. F&G Commissioners and an Id. F&G Wildlife Biologist spoke. The Commissioner stated that before 1995 when the wolves were transplanted here, the Lolo Zone, one of the best elk hunting zones in the United States, held over 12,000 elk. Now, 15 years later, there might be 2,000 elk there.

That is very steep, rough, difficult country there and the wolves have absolutley slaughtered the elk herds in that Zone, alone. Plus all over the State.

Yes, the object of the PETA greenies, et al, is to eventually ban hunting.

L.W.

quote:

Originally posted by Leanwolff:

quote:

YALE - "He told me that the present wolves introduced in Yellowstone and Idaho are not related directly to the wolves that resided in the Rocky Mountains prior. The new wolves are 150-200 lb. Canada grey wolves and the indigenous wolves were a smaller cousin and apparently not as rapacious (efficient?) as the new predator."

Correct! These transplanted Canadian Grey wolves are huge! Here are a couple of pictures of a male that was shot a couple of years ago by the Idaho F&G with approval of U.S.F.W.S. It and its good buddies had been killing livestock about 45/50 miles to the east/northeast of Boise, Idaho, in the Danskin Mtn. Range.

NOTE: The pilot of the chopper in the blue jump suit is 6'4" tall. The rifleman who shot the wolf is not as tall but the size of the wolf in relation to the two men gives ons some perspective as to the size of these wolves.





I recently watched a 30 minute interview on the local Boise PBS station in which one of the Id. F&G Commissioners and an Id. F&G Wildlife Biologist spoke. The Commissioner stated that before 1995 when the wolves were transplanted here, the Lolo Zone, one of the best elk hunting zones in the United States, held over 12,000 elk. Now, 15 years later, there might be 2,000 elk there.

That is very steep, rough, difficult country there and the wolves have absolutley slaughtered the elk herds in that Zone, alone. Plus all over the State.

Yes, the object of the PETA greenies, et al, is to eventually ban hunting.

L.W.

MT
I live just outside of Butte. For years the winter grounds just 15 miles from my house use to winter about 1500 elk. On a really bad year the number may be down to 1200 and on a good year has high as 1800 but it has averaged 1500 for the past 30 years. Last year the count was less than 400. The only thing that has changed is the wolf.

Yep when I read posts from people that like the wolves they seem to always live in another part of the country it is a good thing people from Montana ,Idaho and Wyoming don’t get to run our own wildlife programs any more we had to many elk and no wolves what were we thinking it sure was tuff killing an elk and feeding the family every year thank you California and the east coast you sure saved use. After reading this post I fill like DEWEY talking about keeping Americans out of Canada but he is right the two coasts are not happy unless they get a say in everything in North America.

quote:

Originally posted by Leanwolff:

I have to admit I have mixed feelings about wolves. I'd hate to see them eradicated. Look at those pics; I'd love to turn one of those things into a rug.

On the other hand, it's just insane not to control their numbers. You all can blame Kali all you like for the situation. But really, it's not Kali in general. It's SF and LA in particular. They perform the same mischief with the mountain lion. Limousine liberals have never personally seen a mountain lion strolling through the Castro district or West Covina. Ergo, they are convinced mountain lions are an endangered species. No amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.

It's just insane. I remember showing such a limousine liberal a USDA forestry report detailing the amount of harm uncontrolled numbers of mountain lions do in CA. It is precisely because of the fact that they can prey on livestock that excessively high numbers of them can exist, far more than their natural prey species could ever support. Consequently they do a great deal of harm unnaturally suppressing the normal population of prey animals and damage to the rural economy.

The typical liberal reaction? They just refuse to believe it. They can't articulate a coherent reason. They just refuse, because it goes against their uninformed prejudices.

http://jalopnik.com/5665074/ru...terrupt-traffic-stop

Wolves did you say ?? Here's a lighter look at a wolf situation !

What a major mistake.The states should listen to the people in the states living with them instead of the out of states interests...