I've blathered on about how great the RN is but I'm about to change my tune .
I bought my 7x57 as a do it all rifle able to hunt the tiny roe through to red stag with the ability to handle a boar or a moose at a pinch if the 9.3 goes down.
What do I find - anywhere where there is wind or the chance of shots over flat ground where range estimation is difficult and my 7x57 do it all remains in the safe .
A pointy bullet which offers the same stability, accuracy,penetration and expansion is required.
140gr Partitions are on order - I feel I will lose no terminal effect but gain a lot in versatility.
[ 02-12-2003, 15:47: Message edited by: 1894 ]
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
quote:Originally posted by PC: And so the Round Nose Fraternity loses another member and the bullet companies will discontinue another RN offering
If I was staying in the woods all the time I'd stay with them but I'm not so I don't feel I can.
Zeroed 0.5" high they're 3.5" low at 200. I know for a fact that one out of the 4 deer I shot last weekend would have been wounded or missed due to inaccurate range estimation. On featureless clear fell with dead ground and overcast light it is easy to think something is at 175 when in reality it's at 230. With a centre of chest hold you'd miss under or likely wound. Zeroing higher is not an option as neck/partialy obscured shots need to be taken at closer ranges and aiming off for these is ill advised.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
Another option is to change that 0.5" high to 2.0" high at 100 yds or meters. A dead on center chest hold will probably take you to 270 plus yds. Every rifle I have with the exception of the 222 and 22-250 (1" high) is sighted for 2" high at 100 yds.
Posts: 363 | Location: Madison Alabama | Registered: 31 July 2002
I feel that out to 300 yards there the ducks nuts and thats as far as I shoot at any rate, if they shoot 2" lower at this range it is neither here nor there onpig/roo sized game for me at least, and the added killing perfromance that I belive flat noses first and RN's second possess easily out weigh there poor in flight characteristics.
And just to add 1894 thye look a hell of a lot cooler than pointed bullets. I was considering all the BC stuff to not long ago but others have convinced me it is not an advantage unless your a real long range hunter/target shooter.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by rifleman1: Another option is to change that 0.5" high to 2.0" high at 100 yds or meters. A dead on center chest hold will probably take you to 270 plus yds. Every rifle I have with the exception of the 222 and 22-250 (1" high) is sighted for 2" high at 100 yds.
A roe deer has a chest about 10 inches deep. Aim centre and with a 2inch high zero you've ruined the front of the saddle. Likewise it means that at the ranges you have enough accuracy and confidence to neck or shoot at partial targets (ie out to 80 yards or so) you have to aim off which is not a good idea.
All my rifles are just under an inch high at 100, sods law if I make this one 2 inches high I'm going to forget and miss as a result.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
Facts are there is very little difference one way or the other at sportsmanlike ranges which I believe should be 300 yards and under, although I confess to bending that rule from time to time, I am still trying to adhere to it howsomever.......
Most of this trajectory, and a lot of other business is hogwash from a practical standpoint but most refuse to believe it because it would ruin the game....
I doubt that any animal I ever hit with a spitzer would have been missed with a RN even at extreme range where I probably wiggled on instead of off....
Posts: 42190 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
I "discovered" RN bullets during the last hunting season. They served me VERY well in driven hunt of boar and roe deer. My BAR 300 WM likes the 220 RN Sierra, (V/0 2470 fps.) and I got 100% instant kill, while in the past, with the 180 spitzer Sierra and Speer, animals could often run away for 20-30 m. even if well shot (rib cage). Anyway shots are close, 30-80 m. and seldom over 100 m. I will keep on using them in the future - Lorenzo
quote:Originally posted by Atkinson: Facts are there is very little difference one way or the other at sportsmanlike ranges which I believe should be 300 yards and under, although I confess to bending that rule from time to time, I am still trying to adhere to it howsomever.......
Most of this trajectory, and a lot of other business is hogwash from a practical standpoint but most refuse to believe it because it would ruin the game....
I doubt that any animal I ever hit with a spitzer would have been missed with a RN even at extreme range where I probably wiggled on instead of off....
Ray,
I used to agree but I've changed my tune as new stalking opportunities have become available.
A roe is a small animal and whilst not the primary target of the 7x57 as an allrounder it must be able to cope and cope well.
A zero that allows precision shooting up to 100yards without aiming off means no more than 1" high at 100.
Range estimation in these pine forests or arable fields is hard. With dead ground, the sort of poor light you get in Winter culling over here plus the differential in deer sizes it is easy to get it wrong by 50 yards.
With my 154gr RN load at 2,630fps if I mis estimate something as being at 200yards when it is in fact at 225 yards then with a centre chest hold I graze the brisket, smash a leg or miss.
With the 140gr partition at 2,800fps it's a good heart shot
I'm not saying RN are no good in fact I'm very impressed with them in the woods indeed. I am saying they're not as good an allrounder IMHO and with the benefit of hindsight I can think of 4 roe in the last 9months that I would have missed with that load combo
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
A quick scan of my Sierra reloading book shows that a .308 180gr RN at 2700fps and a dead on 100yd(yards) sight-in drops 16.80"(inches) at 300yds. A 180gr spire point,same fps and poa, drops 14.66".
At one time, I had a load for a 165gr .308 bullet worked up that was pretty close to max. I then tuned a load for a 180gr bullet that would shoot to the same point of aim at 100yds. Thinking I could have the best of both worlds. Then I found that the 180 wasn't having to take a back seat to the 165gr bullet when you got out to my personal maximum range so I started using the 180 for everything.
Perhaps you could sight in a 150gr spitzer to hit POA at say 250yds and tune a 150gr RN to hit POA at 100yds with the same sight picture. My only complaint with that is Murphy's Law dictates that regardless of the situation, I would have the wrong bullets in the rifle.
Rgds John
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
1894 -- let me ask you a slightly different question. What results have you had with 154 Hornady RN's? I loaded some for my Zoli combination gun, which is 12 ga over 7x57R. My load is about 2500 fps, and is quite accurate at ranges I will use the somewhat rudimentary iron sights on the rib. I plan to take it to the SE Alaska alpine tundra for blacktailed deer/ptarmigan hunts in August and September.
For your 7x57, you might try Speer Grand Slams, in the 145 gr weight. I've had terrific success with them in .280 Remington. They offer a flat point, but a more streamlined shape than a round nose bullet. They are also extremely accurate in my rifles. You could probably gain significant trajectory advantages without giving up any performance on game. I would not hesitate to shoot elk or moose with them, at reasonable ranges -- in the 7mm, probably up to 250 yards or so.
Posts: 119 | Location: Ketchikan, AK USA | Registered: 20 January 2003
1894, Although I disagree with your summation because I see little difference in trajectory in my guns as I sight them in (2,5" high at 100) I can use a center hold if need be, but I know the exace trajectory of my gun so that is a minor problem up to 300 yds..I just hold accordingly and trust my range estimation which is seldom off...
I agree that the spitzers shoot flatter and if your comfortable with them then by all means they are for you...I am just aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat...either bullet will suit me fine when it comes down to the nitty gritty..
Posts: 42190 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
At 200 to 300 yards the difference in trajetory is not significant, but depending on your hunting conditions the difference in the amount of wind deflection may be important. The difference in wind deflection at anything more than a light wind is greater than the diffence in bullet drop.
quote:Originally posted by muledeer: 1894 -- let me ask you a slightly different question. What results have you had with 154 Hornady RN's? I loaded some for my Zoli combination gun, which is 12 ga over 7x57R. My load is about 2500 fps, and is quite accurate at ranges I will use the somewhat rudimentary iron sights on the rib. I plan to take it to the SE Alaska alpine tundra for blacktailed deer/ptarmigan hunts in August and September.
It's worked very well indeed. Very accurate, stable with excellent killing effect but no unpleasant holes.
The only reason I am planning on changing is the fact that my whole reason for the 7x57 was a general purpose rifle as my 6mm rem and 6.5x55 are set up for roe stalking. The 7x57 has to be at home with roe in the clear cuts and fallow in the woods or reds on the hill. The RN will do all this (and cheaply) but a 140gr partition will have the same trajectory and wind as my other rifles which will give me a lot more confidence.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
You said the magic word: confidence. That's what so much of the shooting game is about. You can shoot one kind of bullet for years with good results and then have it fail you one time and you will never use it again. Needless to say, use the bullet that gives you confidence.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
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