I drew an elk tag for an area which has a 4 month season lasting till January 31st. It is in an area that would have wintering elk. That tells me the Wyoming Game & Fish are trying to use hunting as a migratory herd density population control method.

Last night I called and spoke to a manager of a large ranch within the area to ask for permission to hunt on the ranch he manages. I was polite, introduced myself, explained who I was and where I was calling from and said I was looking for permission to hunt on ranch property.

He paused for about a second and said, "Hunting is closed". No explaination like "the out-of-state owner has put a stop to hunting on the ranch, sorry" or anything. Short, sweet and final.

I asked if I were to hunt in a certain drainage if I would possibly encounter ranch property. He said I would. I told him I would check with the G&F to make sure I knew where public lands were so I wouldn't be tresspassing.

I then called the "very local" game warden for his suggestions. I repeated my conversation with the ranch manager.

He said, "That guy is the whinny-est one we got up here. Right now he has 600 head of elk on his place he is complaining to me about and he won't allow any hunting!". He then told me, "This guy is THE reason I recommended such a liberal season. He is doing all of the complaining about elk damage and then he does this to us".

We talked a bit more about migration, if it has occured, possible best times, areas, Hunter Management tresspass slips to get on private property in the area etc. and said our good-byes.

Guess I'm posting this for a couple of reasons.

1) To get an honest perspective from ranchers or others who hold large huntable properties of why the ranch manager would do this.

2) To inform other hunters of my experience.

3) To hear your comments.

Go figure... Elkslayer

Sounds like the knucklehead here in NM a couple years ago that was shooting cows by the dozen and leaving them to rot in the name of "depradation." If there's one good thing to come out of the Democratic administration we have now it's the hold they've put on this kind of crap. Maybe if you offered this dude a couple grand... That's what it takes in this state to get landowners to "manage" game.

Could be any number of reasons the guy won't let hunters on . It sounds like absentee ownership and the manager may have orders not to allow hunting . Who knows ? Maybe the idiot is just anti-hunting to sart with , there are a few of those floating around..........maybe bad experiences with hunters trepassing , tearing up fences and scaring stock.....it does happen ; all too often , I'm afraid .

What is a "hunter trepass management slip" ?

DesertRam.........I recall some of the details from that case in NM . It seems to me that the man in question sort of had his back against the wall , with hundreds and hundreds of elk cleaning up his irriagted alfalfa every night. The Game Dept. offer of "help" was a dozen or so landowner cow tags........like that would have saved his crop . I don't know if I would have done what he did , but apparently he was totally within NM law at the time .............

In Wyoming there are Walk-in hunting areas which are private land which the G&F has negotiated with the land owner to allow hunting.

Some land owners allow hunting without wanting to know who is in the area. But the land owners who want to know who is there and what vehicle they are in ask that the hunters "pre-register" with the G&F so the land owner can have a list of who is on his land.

It is a reasonable request.

There are several farms where "game fences" have been put around the property, some by owner and some by G&F in New Mexico to avoid the situation described above.
Some ranchers have had a few too many slow elk (cows) and saddle elk (horses) shot on their land to trust hunters. I was talking to G&F guy and he told me about a mule (not deer) coming through a checkpoint last year
If your going to complain about depradation you should arrange to pull your herd in and get as many hunters in as possible is my opinion though.

I had a similar thing happen to me when I was still living in CA. I was in a casual conversation with a fella in a sporting goods store when he mentioned how badly wild hogs were damaging his property. I asked him if I could lend him a hand by shooting some of the porkers. He replied with, "that would be great! I charge $375 a pig".

End of conversation.

I'm surely not going to pay the man to fix HIS problem. He wasn't running a 'hunting' operation anyhow, he just had some pests on his place.

Gib

[ 11-13-2003, 18:16: Message edited by: Gib ]

From a grand scale to a much smaller scale. As a teenager I would spend many a summertime hour in pursuit of groundhogs. My friend and I were hunting a property that bordered a large farm. We accidentally wandered on to this property and the damn place was overrun with groundhogs/holes. When we realized we had wandered off the property we had permission to hunt on we backed out. We inquired to the land owner whose property we were hunting as to who owned that other farm telling him what we had seen and as to whether the guy would allow us to hunt. The guy chuckled and said the farmer would allow us to hunt and being young and stupid we thanked him and headed off to get permission to hunt groundhog paradise. We found the farmer and introduced ourselves and asked permission to hunt groundhogs only on his property. He then proceeded to thank us as they had become such a nuisance damaging his crops and gave us permission to hunt AFTER we had put in a couple days work on his farm. SEE YA!

I guess game comes in different sizes and from different locations but people are pretty much the same everywhere.

[ 11-13-2003, 18:49: Message edited by: odie401 ]

In Colorado, game damage to fences, hay, etc, will be compensated for by the Colo Div of Wildlife if the landowner allows hunting. If not, no money. Which is the way it should be.

Hi,
I don't know anything about depredation permits, but have heard of them. Do they allow landowners to shoot a large quantity of the animal? Can they sell this right or get help?

As a rancher that feeds a lot af deer, not on purpose, I can relate to someone who complains about wildlife. I do not allow open hunting however. The reason is that I hunt with several friends and family that keeps the deer to managable numbers and damage to a tollerable amount. I don't like to let hunters I don't know hunt my property for the obvious reasons of liability. At the same time I always explain to anyone that requests permision why I say no.
There is one thing that you must admit overrides it all and that is personal property rights. I would have to agree that if you recieve compensation that you should have to take some action on your own to remedy the problem.

Maybe that Rancher has had a bad experience with Hunters?, I find over here in Aus that a farmer that wont allow hunters on , sometimes has had stock shot or gates left open or something like that, on the other hand, the amount of Farmers who have come to me and said do you want to shoot some big grey Rabbits(kangaroo's)astounds me, they can get permits, but the farmer might have 300 roo's giving him curry and the authorities might give him the go ahead to shoot 5 but thats the goverment for you.

Doesnt the state of Wyoming negotiate with private landowners to allow public access? That was more or less what I read into the limited info that Ive seen. If that is the case, then shouldnt that stubborn old goat be letting hunters get to the Elk if he is recieving whatever perks the state allows?

Along the lines of Liability. I like what the state of Nebraska is doing. They are trying to get a law passed that says If a Landowner allows Non-Paying hunters to hunt his/her land they do not need to carry Liability insurance and can not be found liable for any accidents.. And conversely if they do make hunters pay they Must carry a min of $1 Million dollars liability insurance. My hope is that other states will follow. I've talked to quite a few landowners that don't allow hunters just because of liability.

Elkslayer,

Just wait for the joker to go bankrupt and sell his ranch. Hopefully, it will be bought by someone who is pro-hunting. Then go out there and have fun!

Good hunting!

It sounded like this guy was just a manager. The real pro-hunting rancher probably already went broke and a Ted Turner type owns it. Real Ranchers are not buying ranches they can't afford it.

odie401, what is the problem with EARNING the privilege of hunting on someone else's property by trading a couple days work?

I would JUMP at the chance.
The landowners (mostly large paper companies) where I live accept only cash, which I am very short on, in return for allowing hunting on their property.

Elkslayer, it may not help, but certainly could not leave you in any worse position than you are currently in, for you to work that angle, also. The worst that could happen is to hear "no" again. Best case, you gain access.

[ 11-14-2003, 18:47: Message edited by: wingnut ]

This scenario is common. The problem is,I wouldn't rely on anything the game and fish says.

In my area,a millionaire owns a golf course and small ranch,bordering national forest. By late september or the first snow,the golf course is then supporting 300 plus elk. The cocksucker that owns the property won't allow hunting. So he cries to the game and fish. The game and fish,then haze the elk off the property. You would think,since the G and F,are supposedly pro hunting,that they would be happy to have these elk off of private land so that the elk can be reduced. They aren't happy. The GandF use regular public channels to talk on while running these elk. So anyone with a scanner and a general elk license responds,by driving up to national forest area. Fish and game have every person on the pay roll,sitting on the county road leading to this area. The Gand F then go out of their way to slow hunters down and keep them away from the fleeing elk. I've watched these assholes try and do vehicle searches,run drivers licenses and anything else they can come up with to buy time. So the elk can be run farther away from hunters.

The best part is these fuckers have the balls to then hold workshops,in order to discuss the direction of elk mangement and the difficulty they are having in getting a good elk kill. When the public confronts them about the golf course fiasco,the GandF act stupid and deny everything.

Here recently,the game and fish reported on an incident near hart mountain,that resulted in the taking of numerous elk. I've yet to see any specific details,but the report says one hunter killed more then his limit. Which could mean anything,such as shooting elk on someone elses license. There were ten hunters and they ended up killing elk legally. Evidently some hunters in vehicles got in the path of elk trying to get back to hart mountain,mostly by accident. The dickheads at the game and fish immediately start whining about "confused Elk" and how the hunters really didn't mean to keep the elk from getting back on the mountain,and how tragic the situation is. Give me a break. You issue elk licenses and then don't want elk killed.

I drew an elk depredation tag last year for an area in south central NM near the little burg of Sunspot. Same situation--rancher was screaming for G&F to stop the elk from doing crop and fence damage but under NO circumstance was a hunter to set foot on the ranch. They had to kill 30+ elk from this ranch. When I was told I would have to just skulk around the perimeter I refused the hunt and asked to G&F people to tell the rancher that I hoped the elk ruined the entire property.
That's probably a bit harsh and radical--so be it!

Good Hunting,

Our fish and game just care about all the tags being sold and really will not listen or help. But they will offer 90 late cow permits where a guy ends up with over 300 head on his property every year. I have offered to fix fence and help with things but no way. The elk leave his place at nite and go off to other farmers fields and tread trails back and forth, they, the other farmers will give you permission if you can be lucky enough to catch them on their place before they get to the other guys place. But they give that guy--land owner permits 1 for ever 600 acres I think of land he has, total 6 0r 7 permits every year and with his permits, he gets to start in Oct. and go--Jan 2004 There is also alot of Hunting clubs surrounding the hunting unit, But youre not allowed to hunt late hunts on that type of land also called CWMU- units were they do make those clubs give so many permits to regular hunters at tag prices with a draw, very few. This year he had some one do some work on his property for some type Fish and Game deal. Well bet youre butt Their there will be problems this Dec 13-Jan-2004 if no permission is granted. I beleive like mentioned above no money or help from the fish and game for any thing on the farmers land if he will not allow people on there. There is another guy will a million or 2 just next of him, same way. And both of those land owners really own mountain sides and the tops also, not not very much farm land below them. Same as mentioned above these hunts are suppost to be for a reason DEPREDATION HUNTS. Money,I do not have much, just like to hunt and do not waste what game I get.

What is sad about Utah, is that they will pay these same landowners for the crop damage. Guess where these funds come from. I have often said that locked up lands and high fees (from licenses, tresspass fees, etc.) will eventually destroy hunting. This is just another example.