Tried the Barnes "X" bullet at the range yesterday, and was seriously impressed w/ the accuracy.
What kind of performance are folks getting with this bullet on mulies,elk, out to 200-400 yds, w/ a .300 Win Mag.????
The best "hunting bullet", that this rifle has ever shot.....sakofan...

Expect 100% weight retention, and almost always an exit, from almost any angle. If they shoot well in your rifle, they are one of the best bullets for hunting you can shoot.

Just shot a black bear with one (180 gr XLC out of 300 win mag). Hit him on the shoulder quartering towards me and the bullet kept on going after it exited above his hip on the other side. At about 75yds, it sure rolled him.

Chuck

If interested in 200 gr. Barnes X .308 there are some for sale @:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=294821

Regards,
hm

sakofan
Its difficult for me to restrain myself when I get talking about X bullets, but I will try to keep the list short.

1) I have never found a gun that I couldn't get to shoot X's well(I suppose they exist).

2) 4 bullets...That is all a network of us B.C. hunters have recovered. All were recovered from big northern moose. The rest are stuck in the landscape somewhere.

3) Clean kills with minimal meat damage.

4) X bullets expand down to approx. 1600fps.
I have spoken to several people that use them at long ( LONG ) range. They report great success.

5) You can use a very light for caliber bullet on deer sized game.

6)You get to tell your buddies that you
"Xecuted" something or that you "Xterminated" another fine buck.

If you are really stupid you can call yourself

X-man!

Love that bullet!

Jamie

Thanks fellas, maybe my "quest", for the right bullet, for my beloved Sako, has ended!!
And a special thank you to X-MAN for his...Xcellent review of this round...sakofan...

My problem with Barnes is that I can't get them to shoot as well as I'd like. I've tried them in my 338 Win Mag, a 358 Winchester, and my 45-70. I have some to try in my 25-06 and 257 Roberts. I keep trying, but maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Bob257

How much have you played with the seating depth Bob? Getting that taken care of will make all the difference in the world, as far as accuracy goes. Also, the XLCs tend to be a little more forgiving in the accuracy dept. I hope they work out for you!

X-man, I Xpect to hear some Xciting Xamples of your shots this year!

[ 05-27-2003, 19:56: Message edited by: the444shooter ]

I have had great success with the X bullet. Never recovered a bullet from a whitetail yet.

Bob my favorite in the .25 caliber is the 90 grain X -BT. That shoot he best compared to 100 gra XLC and the 115. X like to be seated much shorter than usual. Also in my different guns they like to go fast for more accuracy.

I want to try some the the new ringed model.

Hcliff

I guess I'll take my chances with this seemingly,X-ceptional bullet.....Thank you, gentlemen...I remain,...sakofan....X-it...sorry, coudnt resist...

Do the xlcs foul less than the original x bullets? that was very annoying in my first attempt at using the barnes x. it took for ever to get he copper out. i shot a 150 grain xbt into some phone books and the weight retention was almost 100%. my qustion is does the bullet act like a solid when it enters an animal? some of the beauty of a partition is that hydrastatic jolt the animal gets upon impact. what happens when the bullet just zips through them ? it seems like the barnes is better suited for dangerouse game that require pure penetration. out of the 7 elk i have taken over the years i have yet to recover a partition from any of them. how much more penetration do you need?

hvyw8t, you brought up an interesting question.
I shot, about 15 or so Barnes through my rifle, and it "seemed", that I had very, very, little copper come out when I cleaned my barrel.
The fact you X-perienced, (sorry), copper fouling kinda goes contrary to my limited time with this bullet.
I realize that 15 or so rounds should not result in a ton of copper fouling either. Just kind of wondering...sakofan...

I had a bunch of copper fouling after only 12 rounds. way more than any other bullet. i should also bring up the fact that the rifle was a 7mm stw shooting 150 grain xbts. the barrel is a shillen match stainless #5. so its not like the barrel is some rough factory whore. i get so little copper shooting partitions , its weird. also in working up loads for my 7 stw, barnes lists 77 grains of r22 as a max load for the 150 xbt. i started at 73 grains and had to stop because of extreme pressures. and i mean extreme. i did just what the barnes boys said and started out 50 thousands off the lands. go figure. freaked me out so i stopped.

Sakofan,

There is a good reason why Barnes makes their own copper removing soloution and its perhaps the most aggresive one on the market.

I view X-bullets as a specialized sort of bullet that are at their best where major penetration is nessesary. For that they are truly revoloutionary, but personally I dont consider them an all around hunting bullet. On lighter game where some greater expansion is desirable their characteristics are too much like a solid.

Thanks again too all...Special thanks to Wyojoe for the info, you know??
I X-pected (hehe), very little in the accuracy department from this bullet.
I heard from friends, nightmare style groups, copper fouling, ect.
And to boot, my Sako only shoots certain bullets well, if at all. She is a fickle b%&#h!!
But, after one round at the range using 74.5gr. IMR 4831,Fed 215M primers, Win. brass,I'm thoughly impressed!!!
Only SMK's have shot this good, w/ this rifle.
and the "X", out did the great MK pet load that day!!
5 shot group measuring .382 at 100 yds. out of a sporter barrel, w/ my first load.
I cleaned her out after the session, and got minimal, I mean minimal copper, using Barnes CR-10.
This X-periment, has been worth while...sakofan..

[ 05-28-2003, 14:35: Message edited by: sakofan ]

Thanks for some of the replies. I'll have to play with the seating depths. Maybe I have them seated out too far? I really haven't measured the distance.
Sakofan-what bullet are you shooting in your 300? I have a Browning A bolt that I'm just starting with.

Bob257

Bob...I'm shooting the 150gr. Barnes X..
I'll be trying the 180gr. next.
I have had real good results w/ the IMR 4381 powder too. Not tried it on bullets above 168gr. though...sakofan..

The seating depth, was 3.445...

[ 05-28-2003, 19:42: Message edited by: sakofan ]

Couple of points that may be of interest in regards to the X bullets. I started using them in '90, not long after they came out. Was talking to Randy Barnes one day a while back, he said I must be one of the first users. I started out with .338 (225 gr) because I had a bullet failure with Nosler Partition (I think they have improved them since then). Since '90, I have used them in every caliber from .243 up to .338. I use nothing else for hunting. Points: It is very important to have your barrel super clean when you start using them in order to help prevent copper fouling. Super clean! They can be fickle to get to group, but if you mess with loads and seating depth as mentioned above, they will come in. Don't look at it as a target competition bullet; it is a hunting bullet and if you can get 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards, be happy; you really don't need better for hunting. Occasionally you'll get better. The XLC's I have found to be better in every case, but they aren't available in every caliber or weight (bummer). If available in the desired caliber/weight, I always use them. Be careful about pressures! Being solid copper with no lead core, they are more ridgid and don't compress in the barrel as much as regular bullets. I have found that when pressures start to climb, they go fast! Real fast! One of the advantages is that you can use a Barnes X in about a 10-15% lighter weight than other bullets and get the same killing effect, hence you can get more velocity which means flatter, if that is an issue with you. Back to the cleaning, after shooting X's, it is quite advantagous to clean real well again before going to other bullets. My experience is that if you don't, the copper (you will get some) is much harder to remove after firing other bullets. Seems like it irons it in or something.

Bob257,

Barnes recommends setating depths to start at .050 off the rifling lands. It is best as I am sure you know to use a Stony Point seating depth gauge for this but not necessary. I have been shooting 180g XLCs from my .308(I know this is a bit heavy), and have had decent accuracy(they shoot better than I do). I think you will find that they shoot best .050 to .060 off the lands. Barnes states that they require a little more freebore than other bullets since they are longer than other similarly weighted bullets.

[ 05-28-2003, 20:23: Message edited by: Dave In LB ]

I use them in my .338 exclusively. The 225 gr X bullets shoot into less than 3/4 of an ich, using either IMR 4350 or RL-22 in my Tikka. I don't shoot this gun a lot from the bench, so I'm not worried about cost or even copper fouling (which has not been a problem so far for me.) I plan on using this rifle in Africa for plains game in a couple of years.

"takes forever to get the copper out" Gentlemen, I subscribe to the school that more barrels have been ruined by overcleaning than undercleaning. I shoot over 3000 rounds a year from my target rifle and clean every 100 to 300 rounds. You do not have to clean a barrel down to bare metal. When you do you literally have to break it in again. A BARREL IS NOT FOULED UNTIL ACCURACY STARTS TO SUFFER. The first round out of such a clean barrel coats the lands with jacket material whether a barnes X OR a traditional gilding metal jacket, so why clean down to bare steel? Again, just because you can see copper fouling does not mean the barrel is "FOULED" , clean when accuracy decreases.

Agree, KevinNY, but before one shoots X bullets, it indeed is important to get the barrel real clean or you will get copper fouling that takes you to that loss of accuracy point real rapidly. If you start clean, it will generally go a good while before cleaning is needed to restore accuracy, but if you start less than real clean, it is a very short time with these bullets. I suspect it is because the softer copper is ripped off by the rough, tougher stuff that is there, hence rapidly building up. The same thing happen when going to lead bullets if the barrel isn't good and clean.

Arts reaaly knows X bullets. If anyone wants to see how they perform just soot into some wet newsprint ve regular bullets. Nosler Partitions also do very well for the guys tht can't get X to shoot. It acutally is a fun thing to do by shooting different bullets in to the same medium to compare. I like newsprint because you can see what the wound channel looks like. Need about 3-4 feet of news print

Hcliff

BOB257
I have had best luck with near full throttle loads with X bullets. Try RL-22 in your .338. As others have said, make sure you get all of the old fouling out of the bore before you run X bullet test loads down range. I also recomend shooting 2 or 3 X bullets to coat the bore. Clean after changing powders.

HVYW8T
I aggree with you Nosler Partions are exellent bullets. On small game such as deer almost any bullet will work. The advantages to using X Bullets on deer is that one can use a much lighter bullet and that the kill is usually very clean with comparativly less blood shot meat.
X bullets do not expand (deform) like a conventional lead bullet does, they fold back.
Phone Barnes if you are interested ( I did) and they will do a better job of exlpaining it to you than I.

Sakofan
My 300 win shoots an average of just over 1 inch at 200 yards with Rl-22.
I almost hate to say it but try 200 grain Noslers with RL-22. My stock Sendero shoots these bad boys into 1.5 inches at 351 yards ( the longest shot at the local range).
I have some 200 grain X's (they look like knitting needles)that I will try soon. Will let you know how I do.
I anticipate Xellant groupage.

Good luck to all!

Jaamie

I agree with Art. The gilding metal is harder than the X and will accelerate fouling. You need to get the barrel very clean before switching to the X but then it should be a normal cleaning regimen.

Hi folks, I used X-bullets in several calibers: 9.3x62, .375 H+H Mag., .378 Wby. Mag. and .416 Rigby. I shot some roe deer, warthogs, wild boars, kudu, oryx and zebra. performance was always best. Minimal meat damage, best penetration, good shock power. It opens up very rapidly. That makes it possible to shoot a tiny roe deer and a kudu with the same load. I always got excellent accuracy results.

keep your powder dry!!

Thanks for all the...Xpert advice. Iam really jacked about this bullet!!
Especially, after I wrote it off as a "fad"...sakofan...
Should I be looking at the XLC vs the X standard bullet???

I highly recommend the XLC whenever you can get it in the caliber/weight you want. I went so far as to have them specially make me XLC's in .323 (8mm) 200gr for a wildcat I made. They will make XLC's in anything they make X's for, but, at least when I did it, I had to get a minimum of 5 boxes and I had to pay full price. Incidently, anyone interested in some of the above bullets? I'd sell 2 boxes at what I paid + shipping. 5 boxes is a LOT of hunting! I'm thinking of doing the same for some 6.5 bullets. Much as I think highly of the X's, I'm way stronger yet for the XLC's.

i am still wondering if the bullets act as a solid upon entering game? that weight retention is great but what about hydrastatic shock?

hvyw8t,
I have been using the Barnes X bullets for over ten years now and I can tell you that they not only cause hydrostatic shock they just flat turn a deer's insided to jelly. I use a 120 xfb in a 280 ack. imp. and it is doing 3400, the deer that have been hit with this load, from 75 to 300 plus yards have all dropped in their tracks, some so fast I looked to see if I had missed. If you can find a copy of the Rifleshooter there is an article in it about the new ringtale bullet. They shot ballistic gel with a 180 grain bullet from a 300 Weatherby mag. velocity was 3300 and it pewnetrated 31 inches and blew a cavity almost as wide as the block of gelatin ( 8 or 10 inches ), and the impact was at 100 yards. They do the job and I am waiting on some of the new ringtales to come to try them in several of my different 7MM caliber rifles. DRBOB

Arts
I have 20 or so boxes of XLC,s. I have never got around to shooting them. I read an article in Rifle mag that said you should coat your bore with Ms.moly before shooting XLC's. I refuse to put that crap down my match quality bores.

What have you found?
Do you pre coat your bores?
jamie

what about the new triple shock bullet from Barnes? has anybody had any experience with them already?
thanks.
montero

I've never shot regular Xs, but I can attest to the accuracy of the XLCs in my 6.5X55. It shoots the 120 and 140 grainers into less than an inch. I finally opted to shoot just the 140s after a so-so experience with the 120s. The 140s have performed flawlessly every time (at least I would say so by the look of the wound channel and exit hole). The 120s, on the other hand, didn't do what I wanted. Barnes said I was pushing them too fast, causing the petals to rip loose right after entry. Made for some hellacious internal bleeding, but two .264" holes in the hide don't leave much of a blood trail. Luckily the little buck fell within sight.

I can't wait to try them in my .338. Hopefully they'll shoot as well and I'll get to put them to work on some African critters next summer.

[ 05-30-2003, 17:17: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

X-man:
I haven't heard that about applying moly, hence I obviously haven't. Might relate to my personal view of "Rifle" magazine. A few years ago I considered it top shelf, but I think it has fallen into the useless catagory in the past 2-3 years. Each to his own. Any way, I've never used moly in regards to XLC bullets, or any other time, for that matter. Incidently, the coating on XLC's is not moly.

Hevyw8t I have only shot one doe with the x. This is not enough to make any conclusions. However, I used a 168 XLC in a 30-06 at about 2850fps. The sight picture was tight behind the shoulder, a clear lung shot, at about 40 yards with a rest. I know funny things happen but I sure don't think I missed. She stood motionless for a second or so. She ran off. No blood, no hair, so many tracks of other deer that tracking was not simple. Never found her. I suspect that I just punched through without hitting a rib and the bullet never opened. Is this bullet failure? I dunno. Next time I use this bullet it will be through the shoulder. Deer may be too light a game animal for this combo. I asked Terry Blaukamp about this experience. He said "Well, If you use that same combo on about a thousand animals, then and only then will you have a real sampling to judge." So many bullets, so little hunting time. Good hunting. "D"

We had a similar incident occur 8 years ago. My friend, a handloading buff, bought some X's and found them to have good accuracy in his 30'06. One opening day of the deer hunt here in Utah he shot at a nice buck. The deer was 100-120 yards away broadside. The buck ran off and my friend was livid. No blood was found, but there were a few hairs. The deer crossed below his brother and his brother shot it 1/2 mile from him. Upon inspection, my friend's bullet had "pin-holed" the buck between two ribs, but through the lungs. The bullet failed to open. POOR performance by any account. Maybe they've improved their technology.

Would the deer have died? Probably, but no blood trail to follow.

I think I'll stick with my Nosler partitions. They always open and they retain enough wieght to satisfy me and kill the dozens of deer and elk I've shot.

I have yet to recover a partition from any thing i have shot. several elk, a moose, and lots of deer. i have driven partitions through both shoulders of elk up close and way out there. yet on the behind the shoulder shot, they literally crumple the animal. the partition has yet to let me down. i guess they penetrate enough for me. i have spoken to way more people who have been burned, or know someone who has been burned by barnes than by partitions. but hey to each their own!

I believe what D and MGC have related are common when the X is pushed too fast. If you'll see my post above, I had a similar experience with the lighter 120 grain XLCs in my 6.5. When shooting the 140s, which are moving a bit slower, I get excellent performance, even on light game. This spring I shot a blackbuck doe (they're smaller than our NA antelope) and got perfect performance on a behind the shoulder shot at around 100 yards. Nice entry hole (bullet sized), massive internal damage, and a perfect 1" square exit hole. You should have seen the blood trail! I liked that. Over the course of that weekend I repeated that performance on three 60-70 pound hogs, all with the same results, even at 20 yards where "penciling" should be apparent. I'm convinced that these bullets are designed to open at lower velocities than published and/or typically used. I'll keep using them in my mild 6.5X55, but probably wouldn't shove them out of a .300 Ultra Mag at 3300 fps...

Bob257

I am in the process of developing some .338WM handloads with the 225-grain XLC, and so far I can tell that at least my rifle does not shoot them well if seated close to the lands. I got the information on "how to sit" Barnes bullets from their site. With my rifle, the farthest I sit XLC bullets from the lands, the better it shoots.

I have decided to switch from Winchester FS bullets to the XLC, because the new FS are Molybdenum coated, and Winchester is not listening to customers that are asking for the continuation of Lubalox coated FS bullets.

I will add that 225-grain and 250-grain Swift A-frame bullets are very accurate from my rifle. For some reason, with these bullets hunting accuracy is easy to attain. Nosler bullets are the same, and even Speer GS. But I haven't hunted moose with Speer GS bullets, since I prefer tougher bullets when hunting in bear country.

Also, for those of you who hunt in Africa, you may want to look at the pictures of Barnes X that have been recovered from the largest and meanest African beasts. The pictures, along with explanations on what animals the bullets were recovered from, can be found somewhere in this forum (accuratereloading.com at the bottom of this page).

[ 05-31-2003, 22:46: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]