I just picked up a Rem. 700 Mt. Rifle in .30-06. It only weighs 7 lb 5 oz with a 2 x & VX II in 2 piece mts. I'd like to work up a load for an upcoming Mt. Goat hunt. Would you go with 150 or 165 gr's. Would like to hear your favorite loads with each if you have a chrono'. and actually know what fps you are getting.

Most likely I'll use Nosler partitions ...I always do

Rich Elliott

Rich
I have used a 308 quite a bit with 165 gr. bullets. If a grizzly bear is not on your agenda the 165 Partition will work fine.
Still it is hard to beat a 180 Partition. I would prefer either to the 150gr.

56 or 57 grains IMR 4350, 165gr Nosler Partition.

Goats really aren't hard to kill, but they are pretty dense, so a good bullet will help on angling shots.

Cheers,
Canuck

Rich, I'd load 180 gr. Nosler Partitions to about 2700/2800 fps. in Winchester cases with IMR4831 powder and Federal 215 primers for goats. Come to think of of it, that's the same load I'd use in the '06 for African plainsgame (you know THAT drill better than I do!), plus moose, elk, bears, etc.........

AD

Thanks for the quick responses. Yeah, it's hard to get away from that 180 gr. I've used it for years. Just looking for something a bit flatter since I'm starting out from scatch with another rifle. I've used 57 grains of IMR 4350 with the 180 gr. for years...decades (oh boy) and just wanted to do something different. I guess IMR 4350 will be good with a 165 too. Noticed in the Nosler Manual that they have a highly compressed load of RL 22 behind a 165 giving 3,002 fps in a 24 " barrel. This is a pretty conservative manual on most loads for most calibers. Kinda gets yhour attention. Wonder how much a 22" barrel would give up.
Rich Elliott

Rich,

This load is a safe max in my rifle, but I'd suggest you work up too it in your rifle. Winchester cases, CCI BR#2 primers, 165 grain Nosler Partition and 59.5 grains of H-4350. The chamber of my rifle is a little long, so I make my cases out of .270 brass. Case length is 2.510". OAL is 3.428". The bullet is seated just off the lands. Measured MV is 2830 fps. Standard deviation is 5.1 fps. Five shot group average is .247". This is an excellent load in my rifle and has worked well on cow elk. I hope that this is of some help. Have a good hunt and good luck. Let us know about the hunt.

The sad face is because I'm not going

I know from experience that a 165 X BT over 57 grains of IMR4350 for 2880 fps in a 22" barrel works just fine on goats. Although I haven't specifically used it for goats, I have zero doubt the 165 partition over 58'ish grains of the same powder for 2850 or so would work just as well. I know it works just fine on BC moose.

I will offer something different - 150 gr Partition over 52 gr of IMR-4064, a max load according to some books, so start lower. This gives over 3000 FPS from a 24-inch barrel.

Rich, I use 50.5grs. Varget under 150gr Bal. tip, CCI BR primer, I'm getting just over 2900fps in my 22" Win. 70, accuracy is around 1/2 moa, this is an ideal load for any type of deer, goat etc. BTW, why do you use a Partition for deer size game? Seems like a waste for thin skinned animals, unless you have a Elk tag also. But for deer size game I'll go with what the late Bob Milek used, 150gr. Bal. tips. Jay.

I used 56 grains of IMR 4350, Winchester primer & 180 grain Hornady "Spire Point". It's very accurate out of my Remington Model 700. I've used it on everything here in Colorado. Mtn Goat, Bighorn Sheep , Elk , Antelope, Black Bear & Mule deer. Never had a problem. Just plain hard to beat a 180 grain bullet out of the 30/06.

FYI--Plan on using this same load on caribou next fall.

I have shot quite a few goats with 165 gr Nosler BT's they work well loaded in front of 49 gr of AR2208.

I have also shot (many moons ago) about 80-100 goats with a 7mm rem mag using the factory winchester 150 gr powerpoint ammo, that also worked well.

Any way I like the 165 gr weight in the 30/06 for goats, and the Nosler BT should serve you well.

Lots of good input here. In thinking about it, there is a good case for the 165 Nosler PArtition when you are in an area where the bears are mostly Grizzlies instead of Blacks. For that matter, it's a better case for 180's. Anyway, I'm going to try the 165 starting out with Hornady Spire points. I can switch to the Nosler's later. I'vew done this before and found no difference in pressure or POI.

PC, I think we're talking about 2 different kinds of goats here. Your guys weigh about, what, 150 lbs if it rains? The Mt. Goats I'm talking about weigh closer to 300 lbs and have some pretty thick hair. Anyway, you're quite right about the 165 grains being okay but I think
a Partition would be more in order. Especially, as I mentioned above, in Grizzly country (Jay Gorski). My standard load in another.30-06 for years was 57 Grains IMR 4350, WW case, WLRP, and 180 grain Nosler Partitions. Suspect I'll start out with the IMR 4350 behing the 165 and see how far I can go with it.

Rich Elliott

Rich, I'd not hesitate to use a 165 gr.

By way of encouragement in a different direction, I'm coming to the opinion that the new Deep Shok from Speer "may" be the full equal (or slightly better) than the Partition... I know that's heresey, but their performance in sand is amazing... in my tests they've retained more weight than their comparable NP's and have a larger frontal area... for half the money of NP's they're a darn nice bullet that I'd not hesitate o use on elk let alone goats. I've got both the 165 and 180 grainer's. Shot into sand from 10 feet at 2,775 the 180 retained just over 73% weight and had a nice shank intact... the 180 NP at the same speed retained 67% and had a smaller frontal area and "crunched" shank. Obvioulsy its smaller frontal area will facilitate better penetration, but then it's hard to be real conclusive about the DS's until they've been used extensively on game and recovered... they may penetrate as well. I need to move on to wet phone books next.

More mud in the water...

BA

Rich,

Try 58 Gr of IMR4350 under a 165 gr bullet, I use the Hornady BTSP, with a Federal Primer in WW brass. This combination is highly consistant and groups very well

Also try 56 Gr of IMR4831 under a 180 Partition for bone smashing power.

I would recommend the 165 Gr load for sheep.

Regards, and good luck

My Remington Mountain rifle lover 165 Nosler ballistic tips over H414 powder. It will shoot in one half inch at 100 yards when I do my part.

Bob257

RICH
i have used the federal h.e ammunition with 165 gn proj for a velocity of 3120 fps
spoke with john barness of hand loader fame and he was getting 3200 from his 06 with 165 gn proj
my 06 has a 26 inch tube but i tested them in an 06 with a 24 and 22 inch tube but cant remember the velocities bur will check it out for you
regards daniel

RICH, try the 165 Interlock flatbase over 57gr IMR4350. It has done well for me in all of my 30-06's. I get 2850 out of my 24"bbls, and 2800 out of my 22" 700 Mtn Rifle. Used this load on numerous moose, large mulies, black bears. Wouldn't hesitate to take a goat with it. Pretty hard to argue with the 165 Partition also.

ACKLEY

Lots of good advice here. I keep going back to the good old IMR 4350 in my mind. I'm going to start with that around 56 grains and step it up till it gets a bit sticky then back off. Well maybe not sticky but the chrono will help me know where I am with it. I just ordered that list of Nosler Blems.

Brad,

Now all I gotta do is find a Mt. Goat full of sand !

Thanks,
Rich Elliott

Rich, maybe Saeed could help you out with that one

Sorry Rich,

I thought they were just our "feral Goats" living in Mountains

In that case I change my selection to the woodleigh 165 gr protected point bullets

Rich
Goats are tenacious but there bodies are not very thick. Tough, slow expanding bullets when shot broadside on a goat (lung shot) tend to expand too slowly and not kill very quickly. Because goats have a tendency to walk off a cliff when wounded if not anchored quickly, IMHO a quick expanding softer bullet like a hornady, sierra, or speer 165 grain would be a better choice.
Russ

MtElkHunter,

Yes, I've thought about that. Of course, the front end of that Nosler Partition blows up pretty good. And if you end up taking a less than side on shot having that solid core to drive on through could mean a lot. Then there's that Grizzly between you and the horses to think about. Nosler's are soemtimes better than Pepper Spray.

WyoJoe

Having seen some erratic performaces from the Barnes X (Fail Safe too for that matter) on the plains of Ethiopia, I just can't get too cranked up about mono's. I had a client there in March 2000 who had a .300 Win. Mag. loaded with the Barnes X 180's. They pretty much zipped through everything w/o opening up very much. Then, since it was acting so much like a solid, he decided to try it on a 5 lbs Cordeaux Dik-dik. Wow did it pick a funny time to really open up Didn't have to skin the little critter as it already was! Guess I'm just old fashioned but my bullets gonna have some lead it it somewhere.
Bet that 59 grains IMR 4350 would be okay behind a 165 Nosler too. If you worked up to it w/o any nasty pressure symptoms.

Rich Elliott

[ 06-13-2003, 02:11: Message edited by: Rich Elliott ]

Another vote for the Hornady 165gr BTSP interlock, or the SST in the same weight.
No need for million dollar bullets on medium game.

Rich- Per the new Nosler book, I've worked up to 63.0gr of RL22 (max) with 165gr Hornady SSTs. (new Rem brass, CCI 200). I've getting 2890fps from a 23.5" barrel. Pressure signs are ok. The case is full--might be able to squeeze another tenth or two, but that's it. The once fired Win brass I tried had a bit more capacity, but I'm ok with stopping at max and being near 2900fps.

My 06 with 180 grn hornadys showed a nearly 100 fs improvement and easily a 1/2" moa improvement over IMR 4350 with 55 grs of win760, I expect h414 would produce similar results.

Brad,

If I had the means to design and produce my own idea of the perfect bullet it would be a near carbon copy of the Speer DS. Ive cut them open and shot for accuracy which were both impressive, phone books are next for me too.

My "all-round" load for the .30-06 is a 165 Nosler Partition over 50 grains of IMR 4064

Steyr,

The Nosler RL 22 load was with WW brass and listed as 105% over capacity. I'll bet your Remington brass is 110% . Do you lay the grains in there with tweezers?

Guess I'd best get some Hornady 165 gr. SP pills ordered and get started on this project. I already have most of the powders recommended so far.

Rich Elliott

Model 98,

Did you ever find the data on those Federal Premium HE loads in 22 " barrel?

Rich Elliott

The Federal High Energy load with the 180 grain Nosler Partition averaged 2856 fps for a 10 shot string from my Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker 30-06 with a 22" barrel.

I shoot 180gr Partitions out of my '06 over 60.0gr of RL22 with a WW case and WLR primer and I get 2850. That'll dump anything in North America if you do your part. I used it for elk last year and at the shot that cow dropped like someone jerked the world out from under her and elk are a bit bigger than goats.

257 AI,

Barrel length for that mean 180 NP 2,850 load?

.30-96 Lover thanks for the info.

I've ordered a couple of boxes of Hornady spire points in 150 and 165. When you figure the .270 150 gr. at 2,950, .30-06 with the 180 at 2,700, 165 at 2,850 and the 150 at 3,000.
Then you sight em all in 3 inches high at 100 yards. Well, there's around 2 1/2 " difference at 300 yards between the lot of em. Guess it's just a matter of preference. Lots of sheep and goat have fallen to the .308 cal 150 grain. They didn't know that the BC was inferior to the heavier bullets I guess
Rich Elliott

Rich Elliott

It's a 24" barrel on a Pre '64 Model 70 WInchester.

When I lived in Washington state in the mid eighties I met an older man with a trophy room full of nice trophies including the state record Mountain goat. He had several mounted and told me he hunted them yearly for 15 years. Of course I asked him about rifles and loads and this is what he told me, his first choice being a model 99 Savage loaded with 150 Speer hot cor bullets at around 2700 and sighted with a good peep sight. More importantly being in shape for the mountains and the ability to handle horses in steep terrain had a greater effect on his success than any other factor. He felt the subconscience lack of confidence in scopes to keep their zero while taking a beating as he climbed practically verticle steep terrain was too great to put up with and he only got one shot over 200 yards ever with most being under 150 yards. The one long shot was under 250 yards which as these goats are white he had no problem making a one shot kill on that particular animal with peep sights. His Savage had a 24 inch barrel and the peep sight was by Lyman. The front was a fine square post, the rifle being sighted 3 inches high at a hundred yards.

Wstrn... the 257 Rbts is my next project rifle. I've had several and feel a bit bare without one... it's a dandy cartridge! I plan to barrel (22" Win fwt pattern), scope (Leupold 2x7) and stock it (Bansner fiberglass) exactly like my 06. In fact, the action is also a stainless M70 and is 79 serial no's aprt from my 30-06.

BA

RICH
sorry for the delay

ruger 06 22 inch barrel ss federal h.e 165 gn loading
2959 ,2980,2998,2977.....average2978fps

horn light mag
2874,2899,2875,2895average 2885 fps

sice i chronagraphed my federal h.e loads i belive federal have revised there 165 gn loading
down to 3000 fps from 3100 or 3150

i belive hornady advertise there light mag stuff at 3100
regards daniel

Rich,
All the folks advocating 150 and 165 gr. bullets in the 30-06 will sooner or later go back to the 180 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS..That comes with experience it seems, or at least all the hunters I know have done that sooner or later including self....The first time you plop one of those 150 or 165s in the rear end of a fast disapearing elk you figure out why..A 180 gr. Failsafe or Nosler will make it through the biggest bull....

Ray,
You are absolutely correct as far as Elk go. What I'm still fussing about is something flatter trajectory wise for Mt. Goats. After studying the Ballisitc of all of the possible .308 cal. bullets as well as the 150 .270 Nosler I've just about decided that flatter is only a matter of about 2 1/2" at 300 yards when sighted in 3 inches high at a 100.
I'm also wondering about a bit more explosiveness to help anchor the goat. Of course, that 180 Gr.Nosler Partition tip blows pretty good, doesn't it!
Rich Elliott

Rich