All this reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother recently. He said he was sitting around a campfire and a fellow was saying how he would never hunt with S brand of bullets because they come apart. Since I have been using this particular bullet for years, my brother asked what I thought of them. I told him that I have seen jacket separation on this bullet a few times but it was always while skinning the deer. I guess it depends on how dead you want 'em
Good Shooting!
Russ

Some years back there was some research done in europe that showed there was a impact velocity threshhold of 2600 fps on deer sized animals.At that point there is an effect that wipes out the nervous system and they go right down.Personally I always try for a lung shot for minimum meat loss and with those shots they usually run about 50 yds.Helps them bleed out.So they run 50 yds ,big deal.

I'll add my $.02 too. Most of the big-game I've shot have been elk. Lots of them aroung here. I've used magnum and non-magnum rounds, and I really have not observed a significant difference in "killing power". The only animals I've seen drop at the first shot were spine hits, and a couple of double shoulder hits. I've seen a number of shoulder hits that ran too. I used Sierra Gamekings for years in three different calibers, mag and non. They almost always fragmented and failed to produce complete penetration whether shot from my '06 or my .300 Jarrett. They killed fine, but I like complete penetration for an improved blood trail. No flames necessary, I can track just fine. I think bullet failure is pretty subjective. For what it's worth, the two archery elk taken the past two years were both heart-lung shots, and both dropped within less than 100 yards, not a lot different than the rifle shot animals my daughter and I have taken over the same time frame.

Looks like you added your .02 worth twice...does that make it .04 cents worth now?

We use 12 guage shotguns with slugs at comparativly very low velocity and deer often bang-flop, some even even look like they've been stapled to the ground. I managed to shoot a 226 lb doe once that was laying down, real sporting, huh? She just laid her head on the ground and died. I've also had them run off with three or four slugs in them, each would have been fatal. I think it's a combination of where hit and if adrenelin is pumping through their system. I understand the difference between slugs and high velocity rifles.

With all the reports on bullet failure from animals that were recovered within 100 yards of were they were shot and all the "drop at the shot" kills with brand x mentioned in these threads are some getting the wrong impression of what a bullet should do?

I know, before you flame me! I DO believe that a bullet can kill handily but still fail to do as it was designed BUT when someone posts something like "x amount of deer shot with this bullet and not one took a step after the shot" frankely I get a little suspicious.

I'm not saying it can't be done but when were talking heart, lung shots wich is the case most of the time it's just not been my experience that deer tend to tip over at the shot. Some will to a heart lung shot, many will not. Most will to a double shoulder shot but in real life I rarely see that perfect shot offered. Certainly not more than 40% of the time. Believe me, I've hunted places that I would love for the deer to drop at the shot and would love to have a bullet that would push the near shoulder through the far shoulder or make it to the heart and blow up causing more trauma than one deer can stand but shot placement and plane ol luck seem to have as much or more to do with it than bullet, caliber selection when it comes to deer dropping in there tracks.

This post IS NOT meant to flame anyone personaly, It's just my observation after reading all of the bullet failure threads that some may be getting the wrong idea of what to expect out of the bullet they choose.

My best experiences have always been with a 25-06 and a 100 grain spitzer bullet at about 3300-3400 fps and a double lung shot. With that combo EVERY DEER AND ELK shot dropped in it's tracks if it was a standing shot and if it was a moving shot they dropped within a couple steps.

I have always maintained that a high speed flat shooting bullet that can deliver a large amout of hydrstatic shock to the lungs is the best stopper there is. I have shot a number of other calibers and bullet weights and I'll go to my grave believing in the 25-06 100 grain bullet combo for anything the size of elk on down.