I'm sure they are plenty of upstanding hunters who hunt with autoloaders, it just happens to be the case that I have never met one.

This deer season there were some "hunters" camping in our area hunting land adjacent to my own who thought it would be fun to run 5-rounds through their autoloader at midnight or so; not shining, just shooting. They did this each night...

And then, of course, they are those "hunters" I hear during actual hunting hours who shoot 5-shots so close together that they cannot possibly be hitting anything; there is not enough time to even adjust for recoil.

More still, are those excellent folks who manage to get a hold of a banana clip for their 7.62x39 and proceed to empty it at whatever moves.

Who are these good people?

(posted on medium bore as well)

I hunt with autoloaders, I've got a Gr.III BAR in 30'06, and a Gr.IV in .270. Both are pretty decent shooters and they look good too.

I've met many hunters/shooters that uses self loaders that are fine people and also met some real skunks carrying single shots.
By the way I don't care for the multi shot firing either.

The only difference that I notice with hunters using autoloaders and to a lesser extent pumps and levers is that they tend to fire more shots for the same amount of game taken.

With 1 outstanding exception, the people I know who hunt with semiauto's (rifles--not shotguns)don't know much about their weapons or about the game they're after. I try to stay as far from them as I can!

Good Hunting,

Andy, I'm glad you don't know me.

1 shot = dead deer

2 shots = Maybe dead deer

3 shots = No deer

That's the way I heard it 40 years ago and I've never found it to be wrong.

Mike

PS I don't use auto's but you find jerks all over!

One of the replys in the medium bore section really hit home. If you are against using an autoloader for hunting you're just like all the other anti-gunners.

I've got plenty of bolt action rifles (275, 308,338,8x57, 458), single shot rifles (300 Sherwood, 360 No. 5, 380 Long, 9.3x72R) and one BLR to hunt with, so when I carry the BAR's it's by choice.

I have had to personally shoot twice at deer before I killed them, even with a bolt action. I've also seen plenty of bubbas only shoot once and never bring one home.

[ 12-01-2003, 08:53: Message edited by: browningguy ]

This is a small Blackbuck taken with a single shot from the 30'06 BAR. Just because you're out hunting doesn't mean you can't be stylish.

I have shot a BAR for almost 18 years. I like it so much I wont use anything else. It's more that I have used it for so long that nothing else feels right to me.

My dad told me early in my hunting career that, "You better make the first shot count" and "if you want to drop him, you better get a little bone with the shot". I have lived by that regardless of shooting an automatic or not. For the most part it has held true.

It is not the tool that is the problem, it is the mentality of the hunter using it.

Same logic as saying that anyone that drives a vehicle with a automatic transmission is a poor driver.The autoloader just shifts for you, it does not shoot itself.

[ 12-01-2003, 18:31: Message edited by: turnerhunter ]

Browningguy,

I realize there are exceptions out there--my ex's uncle being one of them. When he pulls the trigger you can bet it's time to start filling out a tag! I have no problem with folks hunting with semiautos as long as they hunt responsibly and safely. Please forgive me if I offended you, sir--no offense was intended!

Good Hunting,

My father taught his left-handed son to hunt. I cut my teeth on a Model 94 Winchester. When my dad was satisfied that his son knew how to hunt with iron sights, he let me hunt with his sporterized, scoped, 30-06 Enfield.

After watching me flail with the bolt handle on the wrong side, he bought me a BAR in 7mm RemMag, and had the safety reversed for a left-hander. I don't think he even knew that they made left-handed bolt rifles. You could have knocked me over with a feather when he brought that rifle home (I was 17 years old). I hunted prouldly and competently with that rifle for the next 13 years. It always shot where I aimed, and has never malfunctioned even though it was mostly hunted in Minnesota, often in some pretty vile weather. I never noticed myself taking any more shots with a semi-auto than the guys who were hunting with bolt actions. I have also seen plenty of guys with bolt actions spray the woods with lead.

I bought my own left-handed bolt action rifles as I grew up and my own preferences evolved. They are a little easier (lighter!) to carry, but have not proven to be any more effective afield than the BAR I carried in my youth. That BAR was the only brand new rifle that my father ever bought...for me, himself, or anyone else. I hunt with bolts now, but I will never, ever sell that rifle.

People hunt with semi-auto rifles for many different reasons.

Regards, Wayne E.

[ 12-01-2003, 19:39: Message edited by: Big Dipper ]

I guess I'm a P.O.S. because I hunt with an autoloader. I guess I'll have to sell my late grandfathers(who was the best hunter I have ever met) win model 100 because it's a semiauto. Never mind the fact that I fired one round out of it this year and it accounted for one deer!

[ 12-01-2003, 19:29: Message edited by: Pumpkinheaver ]

Although I virtually never hunt game with anything other than a bolt, I did carry a BAR .270 out this weekend, and for a very particular reason. We have a large and destructive herd of feral hogs on our property and we need to kill all of them possible. Since they all show up at the same time, and will obviously run at the first shot, you need a gun with range, accuracy, and speed if you're going to do more than kill just a single hog.

As luck would have it, the hogs showed at last light, and did so closer to my partner's stand. He was able to take one with his bolt action, but as they ran angling toward me, I was able to drop three of them at just over 200 yards (this was a herd of about 15 animals, with most of them grown or nearly so). Downing three running hogs at that range would have been next to impossible (for me) without the slick and accurate .270 BAR.

Now, this is certainly different from most hunting in that the object was to kill or mortally wound as many animals as possible, rather than cleanly killing a single trophy. My point is, there are occasions in which an automatic is desireable, and one that is similarly accurate to a bolt like the BAR is certainly not a rifle to be regarded disdainfully.

All that said, as 9.3x62 point out in his post, there is no place for the type of behaviour he describes, and many neophyte hunters depend on throwing more lead in the air quicker to make up for a lack of shooting skills and accuracy. Truth be told, most of us would be better off hunting with single-shots.

The idea that an autoloader is faster shooting would not be considered by those who heard me give both barrels to my Canadian whitetail this past November. The Browning Continental spoke with clarity, twice... When returning to camp that evening Everyone had to comment on the closness of the shots, and it "had to be you." To those in the forum who helped with the regulation questions earlier in the year, My greatest thanks, for I had the confidence to go forward with a double and iron sights. Quite against the norm...Ah!

Although I also own and use single shot, lever and bolt action rifles, I mainly hunt with a semi-auto. Both of my kills this past deer season were one shot kills. I hunt with semi-autos because I like them. I have seen plenty of hunters using bolt and lever actions, or semi-autos fire all five rounds as fast as they could and not hit anything, the only difference being a semi-auto allows you to do it faster. Putting a bolt action in someone's hands doesn't magically make him a one shot killer.

I use a bolt action rifle or a handgun to deer hunt. I used to have a browning semi-automatic it was a fine rifle but I couldn't get the accuracy I expected. I agree with the one shot probably got a deer two shots maby got a deer three shots deer is running and they gave it their best shot. What ever deer legal firearm the hunter practices with and is profeicient with is what he/she should use.

Swede44mag

What is important is the action of the hunter not the action of his rifle.

Jeff

I don't care for the wording of the original post either. I've hunted with a Remington 7400 .270 since 1989. It doesn't screw up on me because I do now how to take care of it and I have as many one shot kills as anybody I know with a bolt. I think that if you go out in the field with a bolt you are giving yourself a big handicap. No one I know is a perfect hunter, and sometimes sh@t happens. If for some reason a second shot is required (and it does happen), your next round is all ready for you. There is no extra required movement to alert the deer or moose to your exact location. I have seen many deer just freeze at the first shot because they were not sure where it came from. But as soon as you try to run a bolt or lever they are gone. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I will continue being a worthless piece of sh@t with what works for me because it works well.

Coyote Jack

I am glad to meet (if only electronically) auto-users who are not like those I have dealt with in person.

I am bit surprised how some are taking my original post so personally; surely any and all responsible auto-users (and hunters in general) would be just as annoyed (if not more so) than I at the (factual) flagrant use of autos I described.

After following this thread and being somewhat surprised at the responses I would like to add another $0.02 worth.

The only real objection I have to autoloaders is the ejection of the brass. I don't like to hunt through the brush for my empties! It is nothing more than a personal preference.

I do have a very strong objection to irresponsible and unsafe hunters regardless of the type of action with which they choose to hunt! There are way too many slob hunters in New Mexico who know little about their weapons and the game the pursue. They blaze away until the game is hit, goes out of sight, or they run out of ammo. The semiauto hunters are easiest to identify because of their rapidity of fire...but that doesn't make the semiauto inherently bad. Some folks would be dangerous with a single shot BB gun. It is actually these slob hunters that I stay as far away from as I can and not their weapons. That may be more than $0.02 so I'll get off my soapbox now.

Good Hunting,

[ 12-02-2003, 04:26: Message edited by: ACRecurve ]

Ac and 9.3, I'm not offended, just wanted to show that you shouldn't put all autoloader hunters in one group (which is the way the post seemed to read to me). Here's the target I shot two weeks ago with my new 458, it's built on a Daly Mauser action. This was on the 50yd. range. Two 3-shot groups then adjusted for windage with two shots. Also on the target are a couple from my pre-war Mauser sporter in 8x57, complete with open sites (the 8mm shoots about 4" high and I haven't worked up any handloads yet).

One very minor point in favor of the autoloader, is noise. There is no racket from working the bolt, if, for example, you hit an unnoticed tree limb, or something like that. I hunt with bolt actions, myself, but the only deer I have missed lately was when I hit a tree limb between myself and the deer, and when the deer stood there, I worked the bolt on my M70, and the empty case hit the fixed ejector, PING! The deer didn't wait to find out what THAT noise was, he hightailed it out of there. Only time in several years I can think of, that I needed or wanted an autoloader. I had a BAR .30/06 several years ago, but sold it, as it was too heavy for comfortable carrying up and down those old Missouri hills in Chariton County. It shot very well, 1.5 minutes, but I like the lighter boltguns better.

I like all sporting rifles, I personally have no use for "assault rifles" for lack of a better term, but if I were a soilder I sure would.

People talk about "the boring 30-06" and such, well sometimes I think bolt actions get boring. Why not suck the marrow out of the hunting world and enjoy all of its aspects..

Its true there are a lot of idiots with guns around today, but it doesnt do to steryotype.

I have respect for autoloaders that are accurate, consistent and reliable. It is a major engineering challenge to make an autoloader shoot 1 MOA, and you have to marvel at a rifle that can do this. Hence the popularity of the 223 in High Power competition. I use a Bushmaster in 20 inch and 16 inch configuration to snuff groundhogs with peep, Red dot and scope sighting systems depending on the time of year, weather and lighting conditions.

My serious big game hunting, over the past 40 years, has been exclusively bolt action with the exception of a 458 Win Double and an Encore rifle with 243 and 270 barrels.

Its all good, and its all fun, but I call a peak experience popping a groundhog at 200 yards with the shorty carbine with the Mil peeps. For this I only load 2 rounds in the clip.