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one of us |
Well, I appreciate your position on whether or not it is sporting to shoot a cat in a tree. I was just noting that I have never heard of any other way of cat hunting. I have never hunted cats. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers. But from your first reply, the first 3 sentences seemed a bit more intense than a simple 'disagreement.' When I said that I don't have a problem shooting a cat in a tree, that comes from having no knowledge of the hunt to begin with. However, it does seem like it could be anticlimactic as previously posted. Sorry, I'm in unknown territory. Moreover, I was merely dissecting the use of dogs in other forms of hunting. Not attempting to be combative or anything. OK? | ||
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one of us |
Doc, you are right in that my first post did come across as quite a bit more exuberant than simple disagreement. I wish to extend a sincere apology to anyone who has gotten pissed at me for my off-the-cuff comments. I based it on watching four or five hunts on TV that have basically shown a pack of hounds chasing a cat up a tree to be shot. I guess I should use the same comparison of Coon and Squirrel hunting, both of which I have participated in. To all who wish to hunt Mountain Lions with hounds, good luck and have fun. | |||
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one of us |
I have talked to a local hunting guide that used snowmobiles to tree mountain lions and the rich sportman (hunter?) getting a phone call at his home in the States, he then jumped on a plane flew here, then onto a snowmobile was driven up to the tree that they still had the mountian lion treed in. Walked over and shot it....... Very sportsman like conduct...... I always wondered what the Sportman's story was??????? | |||
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You're kidding, right? | |||
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| one of us |
Quote: That does happen though rarely.I have hunted cats with hounds myself on two occaisions.On the first occaision we rode snowmobiles for ten days through rough conditions.We ran several tracks and treed three cats all of which we turned down.By running tracks I mean that we walked through thigh deep snow for periods of a half hour to several hours on each occaision.Not an easy hunt by any means. On my second hunt I chose an outfitter in a location where the cougar density was much higher.We found a huge track on the first afternoon but it was too late to put the dogs on it.The second day we went to the track and boxed it which means that you ride around the place that the cat went into to make sure that it didn't leave the area.We set out on foot after the dogs through thigh deep snow over deadfalls and down steep hillsides for forty five minutes until we arrived at the tree.We tied the dogs up and I shot the cat which fell down the slope into a steep box canyon.It took us four hours of hard work to get the cougar and the dogs back to the snowmobiles.When we arrived at the snowmobiles we were sweating profusely so our clothes froze solid on the half hour trip back to the truck.We arrived back at the outfitters home very tired but with a 185lb cougar for our efforts.Does that sound so easy?The other two hunters in camp also killed cougars and one killed a huge bobcat as well and they also worked for their cats though in a little easier conditions.I PM'd Lidman the information on the outfitter that I used on the second trip because they have a very good supply of larger than average cougars and their guides ,dogs and equipment are first class. | |||
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| Moderator |
As I understand it the "hunt" is not shooting the cat out of the tree, but actually following the hounds, anticipating the cats movements and trying to out smart it to a degree. Also, unlike many other forms of hunting, you can be ultra selective in that you lay the hounds onto a track you select and at the end of it, you can decide whether to shoot the tree'd animal or not. I suspect many cats are allowed to go on there way because they are young or the wrong sex. Being able to put the hounds on a certain track has great benifits one of which is that stock killers or problem cats can be selectively targeted to a degree. Also look at the States which have banned hunting with hounds and see how the cougar is actually starting to pose a risk to humans now... Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't do it, but at least keep an open mind untill you do.. Regards, Pete | |||
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| one of us |
Quote: You understand perfectly. | |||
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| one of us |
Uhhhh, Moki? "Hearing this from a 'local guide'" would sorta imply someone in B.C., I think? Let's see here: The local guide (Canadian) snowmobiles a cat to a tree and trees it. It's a shooter for sure - so - he then calls the lower 48 client via cell phone who immediately drops his schitt, closes his office, kisses wife and kids goopdbye, grabs his gun, jumps on a ready, waiting airplane, hauls ass up to Canukistan, rents a car, drives to the guides base, gets on a snowmobile, motors to the treed cat and shoots it. Best F'n coordination and scheduling I've ever heard of. A very patient cat, too. Even if it was, say, Colorado/New Mexico - that's fast! I smell bullschitt. Are you and Perforator related? | |||
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| one of us |
Nope we are not related....... Don't even think the same way. I related a story that one of the local hunting guides told me. I'm the guy that would chase the mountain lion with dogs. I would carry my T/C Contender carbine chambered in either 308 Bellm (444 Marlin brass, 308 Win dies) 150gr bullets @ 2650fps or my 22" 45-70 barrel 405gr Rem JFP 1600fps or a Ruger s/s 77/44 44mag. I've just heard of to many unethical hunters doing things like this. These people need a good "Bitch Slapping" session! | |||
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| one of us |
"Hearing" and passing on info like this and actually witnessing and passing it on are 2 entirely different things. If these things actually happened (as you stated), I'd bout have to question the Outfitter/Guide's integrity more than the "hunter's". Filthy lucre and all of that. One or 2 on this thread might could use a good bitchslap, too, for passing on gossip and bs. I could just see this one in the "Hunt Reports" thread and how far that would go there. Tell ya what Moki,,,,, just for grins and as by your note, you are "in the business", post what you "heard from a Local Guide" on that Forum and let's see what shakes out. | |||
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Yes things like that do happen but as stated previously,the hunter can't be too far away.I do know for a fact of one instance where the cat was treed and the outfitter knew someone that lived only 30 miles away that wanted a cougar.A quick cell phone call and within an hour or so the fellow arrived at the outfitters vehicle,was led a few hundred yards to the tree and shot the cat.Certainly not a hunt but the fellow got his cougar and the outfitter got his cash.The outfitter in question was the outfitter that I used for my first hunt(and would not use again by the way) and he liked to brag about that being the quickest hunt he has ever had.Since everything was done totally legally he sees nothing wrong in bragging about it. | |||
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stubblejumper, could you PM me the details of who you were hunting with and what it cost? Me and a friend are trying to get out for cougar this year but were not sure of wether to try a guided hunt or to just try and track them down by foot. Brett | |||
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Quote: The guy at the Exotic Meat Store called me once and within 15 minutes I had Elk ready for dinner without firing a shot...  | |||
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| one of us |
I don't remember the name of the guide that I talked to or know the official/legal name of the outfitter but he was located in the Coquihalla area just past Hope, B.C. This outfitter was shut down and charged with all kinds of illegal practices. How I meet the guide was that his boss had started another buisness towing trucks and cars because of all of the break downs on the steep Coquihalla hwy and all of the people walking to thier house to use the phone. My main buisness is truck powertrain repair and they brought thier truck to me for repairs. The driver/guide told me while he was waiting for the truck that they had kept the mountain lion in the tree all night and half of the next day. They had ridden thier snowmobiles around until they found the tracks then treed it while by chasing it with snowmobiles. Did I doubt the fellows story? Was I surprised when the operation had it's guiding license revoked? This sort of unethical hunting/guiding happens far to frequently. Instead of crying that I shouldn't write this down or daring me to post it somewhere else accept that it happened. | |||
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Quote: Per, I am sure there are enough people here to point you to a good guide. Just a couple of things. Be aware that in most cases you will only have 1 chance at a cougar. That is to say, a large number of guides that use hounds will specify that once they tree a cat, you, the hunter can shoot or not. But in either case, the hunt is finished. Just be aware of this and if possible, avoid just such a situation. Regarding the use of hounds. There are 2 variations on this. It is usually referred to a "dry ground" hunt. The "dry gound" is a reference to snow. You need to decide, before you book the hunt if you are comfortable running up and down mountain slopes in the snow. If not, then look for a "dry ground" hunt. Whether you choose dry ground or snow, hunting behind hounds can be very demanding. Usually, the guide will cruise an area. Once one dog "strikes" a scent, it is let go. Later, (minutes, hours, days) the guide will let the rest of the dogs go to tree the cat. Once the cat is treed, you are on to get to the scene as quickly as possible. Finally, there are a very few guides who do not use dogs. I know of 1 or 2 who specialize in calling the cougar's in using predator calls. This can be very exciting. The downside can be, that you must quickly decide whether or not to shoot. For a guide that uses predator calls, you can usually add in a bobcat hunt for a little more. If that interests you. Regards, Pete | |||
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Quote: In researching outfitters before my hunts,I did discover a few outfitters that offered either a standard hunt where you must shoot the first cougar treed,or a trophy hunt where you could hunt for the full time period and turn down as many cougars as you choose.Most outfitters that I found in Alberta and B.C. offered only the latter although a few offered both.. | |||
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| one of us |
I had a Canuckastan BC guide tell me the same thing. $3000 for a 10 day cat hunt (including lion, lynx and a bobcat), and $3750 for a tree and call lion only hunt. I lived in Bellingham, Washington and was only 3 hours away, so that might have been the reasoning behind the tree and call whack-em and stackem concept. | |||
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Quail Wing, can you provide me with the contact info of the guides you know who specialize in calling the cougars in? Rufous. | |||
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| Moderator |
Anybody know what a cougars sense of smell is like and is it an issue when calling? The reason I ask is that many of the old world big cats such as lion, tiger and leopard are said to have a poor sense of smell... Regards, Pete | |||
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new member |
Felis concolor does not have a very good sense of smell they mainly rely on their eyes and ears. yucca | |||
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