I like for an animal to fall right down and stay there. Of course it does not always happen. I don't like to track animals. I can do it I suppose about average but it leaves a sense of apprehension that bothers me.

I shoot most animals in the "boiler room" to quote Elmer. It's easier to hit and works almost all of the time.

Unlike some here with more "kills" than I have I have found the standard calibers to be rather poor in their ability to anchor game other than the nervous system hits of course. But these standard calibers do the job. I have taken the most game with a .358 Win and it's overkill I suppose. To each his own and some may feel that it's a solution to a non problem but I enjoy it.

[ 08-12-2002, 17:58: Message edited by: Don Martin29 ]

Nebraska,
In my humble opinion,there are four keys to getting an instant kill on a Whitetail.
First,you need a cartridge with enough power for the range that it is being used.
next,you need a BULLET that is constructed to kill the game that you are shooting.(I think that using the wrong bullet is the primary cause of sloppy game killing).
next,proper bullet placement(head,neck,spine,heart,lungs)
last,and least understood,is the mental state of the deer when he is hit with the bullet. Most of my deer are shot from ambush,and they are not greatly alarmed,or pumping adrenalin. When I followed all of these four directions,I ALLWAYS got an instant kill.When any one was not present at the shot,the deer ran 50 or more yards,before dying.
As an example,a standing spike,at 50 yards,shot with TWO bullets two inches apart,through both lungs,that ran 80 yards.The reason is that I used a 180 grain Corelock bullet designed for moose or grizzlies.I have never shot a living thing with a Corelock bullet in the last 50 years.
Another example,a 6 pointer running full throttle at 50 yards,had his heart blown apart,and still ran 50 yards before pileing up against a tree.
My last example,a big 4 pointer,walking at 40 yards hit behind the shoulder through the lung,and out in front of the far shoulder.He ran 50-60 yards because he had just ran over a hundred yards before slowing down to enter the swamp,and was full of adrenalin.
Think back to the deer that ran after the shot. I think that you will find that at least one of those keys was missing.
Good luck,
Frank

franke,

I don't agree with your comments on the 180 gr Corelokt.

"[QUOTE]Originally posted by franke:

As an example,a standing spike,at 50 yards,shot with TWO bullets two inches apart,through both lungs,that ran 80 yards.The reason is that I used a 180 grain Corelock bullet designed for moose or grizzlies.I have never shot a living thing with a Corelock bullet in the last 50 years."

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I have done a lot of bullet testing over the years by shooting into water filled cartons. While it's not game the water is 100% consistant and I get the expanded bullet to examine.

I have found that Corelokts in general expand quite quickly. Just as fast as Sierra's or Hornady's for instance. And the bullet you mention, while a little heavy for deer has most likely taken the most game in the USA over the last 50 years than any other single bullet.

In fact if I were selecting a bullet for a .30 caliber rifle for whitetails my first choice would be a Corelokt and that's what I load in my 308, 06 and .300's. I use an appropiate weight in each caliber with 150's in the .308 etc.

Don,
I know that,because it is economicly priced,the Corelock is very popular,and thus,kills a lot of game. I am also aware that the bullet produced by Remington today may be far different then the one made in 1954.I also know that a small deer,hit with TWO well-placed shots without being anchored to the spot,was hit with a poor choice of bullet.I have no hangup with Corelock,I shoot a lot of them;I have a box on my shelf right now.
However,for shooting Whitetails,I prefer Hornady Interlock,becuse I have never seen one fail to do a good job of killing.I don't know how well they will do on plastic bottles.
I'm a firm believer in the adage that you stick with something if it is doing the job for you.I also try to avoid making the same mistake the second time.
FYI I never shot at a living thing with a 30'06 since that time,either.I sold that rifle the following Winter,and bought a Krag.
Good luck,
Frank

The only deer I've "dropped in thier tracks" have been when the nervous system has been hit. That said, I've done it with neck and head shots with one, my first, hit in the spine above the lungs.

Pecos, Andre, and others have made some good points.
1. Scared, adrenelin pumped deer don't just fall down when shot through the chest.
2. Bullet placement will always be the key.
3. Animals don't always react the way we expect.

I think calm animals die much quicker and taste better.

I've been downright shocked once by a deer hit well through the chest by two bullets that had obliterated the lungs, liver, and heart. The first was a quartering shot and the second broadside. Shot with a 7mm RM at about 150yards. It staggered about and walked slowly downhill for about 20 yards or so and even stayed on its feet for several seconds after the second hit.
My quickest ever was with a .22-250 on a doe permit. I shot her in the brain with a 55gr. Nos solid base. I'm not advocating head shots really but pointing out there can be a huge difference in the situation at hand. I don't think it's really neccasary to drop them like a rock as long as it's a good hit. It will always come back to your decision as a hunter as to how you'll place the bullet.

I started hunting big game in 1959 and have had the privilege of residing in some of the best game country in North America. The number of animals that have ended up in my freezer is quite respectable. I do not expect any big game animal to drop at my shot, but of course, it's a bit of a bonus when they do. I, like a couple of other posters here, loathe head shots. They allow many animals to escape to die lingering deaths from starvation or thirsting to death. Neck shots are iffy, as well. The best shots to assure game does not go far are shots through the heart-lung area. If an angle shot is presented, then the better constructed bullet gets the job done whereas fragile designs may not get in at times. Takes a lot of self-restraint to pass up these shots or wait for a better presentation. I have shot a lot of Moose and Elk, and with these bigger deer, the case for a better bullet is even more compelling. Ditto for Black Bears, which often streak off at the shot, even if it is well-placed. A bullet that exits always leaves a better blood trail, when that is needed. All this boils down to is: Use a rifle you can shoot well, take careful shots at the larger vital area [heart-lung] and use a bullet that you can be sure will get through the vitals every time, from whatever angle you need to shoot. We owe it to the game to prevent undue suffering or losses. Regards, Eagleye.