BlackBearHunter's thread on Wardens got me wondering. For you guys that live in Texas, is it true that a Game warden will not come onto a hunting lease without being asked. Several of the guys on our lease have told me that, but it sound more like, they "don't usually come onto a lease", would be more likely, or just the old guys messing with the new guy.

DGK

Here in La. Game Wardens can't come onto private property w/o permission unless there is something going on to realy cause a high suspicion of illegal acts taking place. And they better have a dang good reason. Otherwise, Game Wardens would be ruining hunts for landowners all over. Now, on public land they can do whatever they please.

Good Luck!

Reloader

A Texas Game Warden will go where he dang well pleases. He has more leeway in pursit of law-breakers than any other law enforcement officer that I am aware of.

Since Texas is 99% private (or threrabouts) A game warden without the ability, or desire to enter private land is completely worthless.

I think this is great. We need more game wardens in Texas, and we need to up thjeir salry. I do not know what they make, but I am sure it is not enough.

As Wendell stated, they can come and go wherever they please, even if it means cutting a lock, or two.

RSY

375hnh---Not true Texas game wardens don't come onto a lease. There is little public hunting land in Texas and a very high percentage of the hunting is on leases. My son in law inherited land from his grandmother. One day he was at his camping trailer--less than 100 yards from road and game warden comes in and wants to see his hunting license. No evidence whatsoever that he was hunting. Warden wanted to know whose lease it was. No leasing involved.

I've been checked on paid leases in Texas several times...never with the permission or prior knowledge of the landowner or lessee.

A Texas warden is the same as any other policeman. He cannot come into your house without a search warrant unless you give him permission. There have always been rumors that he could but that is bs. They do now have the authority to look in your cooler is you are actively hunting or fishing. Until the last legislative session they couldn't do that if you refused unless they got a search warrant. Before the legislation was passed people were refusing to let them search coolers or board their boats. They can go on private land without permission but as far as I know they can't cut the lock off your gate. I do know that if I caught one doing that on one of my ranches one of us would get an old fashioned ass kicking. The good wardens work with the landowners and are usually given keys to the ranchs.

[TEXAS] PARKS AND WILDLIFE CODE

CHAPTER 12. POWERS AND DUTIES CONCERNING WILDLIFE

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL POWERS AND DUTIES

§ 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY
ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of
the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research
regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the
department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish
are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an
employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water
when acting in his official capacity as described by this
subsection.

§ 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game
warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may
search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game
warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion
that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a
wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the
department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a
wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under
Subsection (a) of this section.
(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal,
bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or
possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

Complete text is here:

PARKS AND WILDLIFE CODE

Other links:

TPWD Law Enforcement
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/enforce/

Teas Parks & Wildlife home page:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/
(A very extensive web site.)

-Bob F.

The Game Warden has come to our camp at the deer lease a time or two. We are always glad to see him. The only time I have really been "checked" was one time launching the boat on a duck hunt. The GW was very nice and friendly.

I kind of figured they were free to go where they pleased, they certainly are here in Iowa.
I have only been a part of this lease for about four years, and I don't make it down every year, so I haven't done a lot of research on the matter. I don't do anything that would be considered illeagal or unethical, so I guess I don't worry about it much. I was just curious.
The lease I am a part of, involves seven guys, including my son in law's dad (my connection), and only three of us hunt, and as I said, I don't make it down every year. But as it says above, there is little public land in Texas, and if you don't have a lease it's real hard to find a spot to hunt. I didn't really have to buy into the lease, I hunted there a couple of times before I joined, but I feel better about paying my own way. Thanks for the info.

DGK

Here in Wyoming, game wardens may enter "open fields" if they have reasonable suspicion any hunting, fishing, or trapping is taking place. They don't need a landowner's permission to enter private land, and may cut locks off if they have to. The way the state see's it, wildlife is the property of the state, and the state game and fish has a vested interest in that wildlife and its protection.
Personally, I welcome them. Our local game warden knows who should be on the private land where we hunt, and who shouldn't be. He has several stories of stumbling on to ranch houses in the process of getting robbed, folks stealing cattle at night, stealing equipment from sheds, stealing hay, etc. The best sheriff's deputies don't know the country side or landowners 1/4 as well as he does either. It seems that the folks who don't want them on their places have good reason because they are up to no good. I want the bad guys knowing he is welcome where i hunt to keep their sorry asses off!!

MG

Besides,

We've had game wardens check on our camp several times and as long as they are polite, and most are, I welcome them. Some, like in all law enforcement circle, can get that "Johnny Law" attitude which turns me off. We had one come into our camp, the gate was open, and was prying around while we were out on the stand causing my dogs, which were kenneled, to bark. I don't like to be sitting quitely then have dogs sound off - now I have to wonder if someone is trying to steal something. He came back that evening after dark, and I let him know that I knew I wasn't particularly happy and it put him off a little bit. He's a public "servant" and he had known us at another close by lease, so he should be more polite and he ought to make his visit when the likelyhood of us being on a stand is less.

The other side of the coin, is that many are too lazy. There is a lot of roost shooting of wood ducks in my area, and most game wardens don't like getting more than 100 yards or so from their vehicles and you can't catch the really bad guys that way. You can catch guys who make an honest mistake - and I've never know a Game Warden to cut anyone any slack at all. I once saw a warden, that I repected on the whole, give a guy a ticket for $100 for a bass that was one-half inch too short - the guy had one fish and caught it from the bank. I believe the guy thought it was legal. His response - "well, I'm not going to be fishing anymore". That while Texas is trying to recruit more to the outdoor sports - I bet that guy never bought a fishing again. A better approach would have been to just take the fish and issue a warning along with a little educational lesson and perhaps a free ruler. That would not have been the macho thing.

I must say though, in the past 15 years or so, Texas requires the wardens to have a 4-year degree in criminal justice or wildlife biology and getting into the academy is very competetive so they are getting the cream of the crop. This weeds out most of the deputy sheriffs and city cops some of which don't have the sense God gave geese.

My understanding is that a Game Warden must have "probable cause" to search inside your camp, vehicle, or home. However, I've never heard of them cutting locks just to visit you - only if they are in an active investigation.

quote:

Originally posted by Redlander:
However, I've never heard of them cutting locks just to visit you - only if they are in an active investigation.

That is the gist of what I was saying. My apologies if I was a bit nebulous. My point was, they don't need a warrant to go in somewhere; probable cause is enough.

During hunting season, many ranches simply don't lock gates. I think that's probably a good idea.

RSY

One of the big problems I saw in texas as a kid is the private land issue and lack of any type of game enforcement. The reason why we for the longest time didn't have any deer in our area was because if any of the local rednecks saw one out they would shoot it on the spot. heck they would shoot it if it was in june it didn't matter, the same went for any other type of game. Texas is a large vast place. I can tell you that if someone wants to poach an animal thats on their property and the tract of land is large enough, they will not be worried about being caught by the game warden. Texas game wardens mostly police fishing

As to the rights of game wardens, they do have a lot of latitude, Trying going to court and telling the judge the game warden illegially entered your home to search it and didn't have probable cause. I would be willing to bet the judge would prolly laugh at you.

Things have changed since you were a kid. Now the landowners are the game wardens. Most of the people that I know who own land are very protective of the wildlife.

quote:

As to the rights of game wardens, they do have a lot of latitude, Trying going to court and telling the judge the game warden illegially entered your home to search it and didn't have probable cause. I would be willing to bet the judge would prolly laugh at you.

Get real! Do you really believe this is true?I don't know who comes up with the crap but it must be the same ones that see black panthers. Okay you drunken rednecks, come out of the closet and tell us how the game warden came and searched your trailer house without your permission or a search warrant.

quote:

without your permission or a search warrant

Probable cause is established for these guys by suspicion of hunting/fishing activity alone. That constitutes a 'lot of latitude' in most people's book!

They sure didn't have a warrant when they went through my truck, including opening the doors and tool box. Legal???? I dunno, but they did it. I had nothing to hide, and if they had asked I would have let them, but they didn't ask.

LOL, yeah probable cause. woods = game = probable cause. Their always welcome at my camp and I wish they would come around a lot more often.

M16 I don't know what area you are talking about but where I grew up you had to drive 20 miles to get groceries. and 30 miles for beer. our ranch was 1000 acres. the ranch next to us was 6500 the ranch on the other side was 1400acres. If I wanted to poach a deer on the back of the property being caught by any game warden would be the last thing on my mind. The same conditions apply to this very day. Tell me just who is going to be there to watch, if they are watching they are trespassing.

My brother used to have a lot of problems with breaking the law, he had his truck searched numerous times, and yes stuff was found, did the officers see anything to cause them suspicion no they didn't. My brother whined till the cows came home about illegal search and siezure, everyone laughed. The same thing applies to game wardens, Let me tell you if it makes it to court the game warden will have some excuse for his probable cause, if it even gets mentioned, your attorney will prolly laugh too and will not even say anything. If you wanna have and possess illegal game or anything else illegal for that matter, that fine, but I wouldn't count on the illegal seach and siezure rule getting you out of trouble. After all its your word against the game warden or officer who is the judge going to believe????

I can't speak for all of the state but 99% of ranches in South Texas have given the local warden(s) a gate key. They want them able to enter and pursue a poacher if the need arises. As to home searches, a warrant was not necessary to search for game violations in a home if there is probable cause. This only applies to game violations. If this changed in the last year I hadn't heard.
Wardens simply don't exercise the no-warrant home search often because landowner good will is essential to their ability to do their job and walking in someone's home uninvited generates very little good will. Walking onto someones land unannounced is however, a very common occurance. Especially on leased land. There is a provision in the lease license (yes, Texas landowners must get a special "lease license" to day-hunt or lease their property for hunting, like any other business needs certain permits to operate. The fee is based on the number of acres.) that grants the wardens substantial liberties. Just like the food inspector can come into your restaurant anytime.

Thanks to B Faucett for the link.

This is for the crowd who thinks a warden can search your house or hunting camp without permission.

§ 12.102. INSPECTION OF WILDLIFE RESOURCES. (a) In
this section:
(1) "Residence" means a person's principal or ordinary
home or dwelling place.
(2) "Temporary residence" means a place where a person
temporarily dwells or seeks shelter. The term does not include a
hunting blind. The term does include a:
(A) hunting club or lodge;
(B) clubhouse;
(C) cabin;
(D) tent;
(E) manufactured home used as a hunting club or
lodge; and
(F) hotel room, motel room, or room in a
boardinghouse used during a hunting trip.


(d) Nothing in this section authorizes a game warden or
other peace officer commissioned by the department to conduct a
search otherwise authorized by this section:
(1) in a person's residence or temporary residence; or
(2) on a publicly maintained road or way that is:
(A) improved, designed, or ordinarily used for
vehicular traffic;
(B) open to the public; and
(C) distinguishable from a shoulder, berm, or
other area not intended for vehicular traffic.

Now for the rednecks this could be valuble information for you. A game warden cannot search your doublewide without your permission or a warrant as well as your 55 GMC pickup when it is on the highway.

Well M16, since Section 12.104 comes after 12.102 it takes precedence and it clearly states "vehicle". Plus who knows how many other sections take precedence after that one?

Puff up all you want little guy but they're gonna do what they want.

Its also a felony to impede or obstruct the actions of a law enforcement officer in Texas even when those actions are known by you to be in error or improper. So you just go ahead and next time tell that dude with the badge to get the fuck outta your way.

quote:

Puff up all you want little guy but they're gonna do what they want.

You are one funny redneck. If 6'3" 240 pounds is a little guy thanks for the compliment.

m16 no one is argueing that what you posted or saying is the letter of the law. It could also be said that if the game warden wanted to search your house he would prolly get a search warrant. but what happens if the officer feels there is sufficient reason you may attempt to destroy the evidence if they get a warrant. If in fact the officer does go ahead and search your home or vehicle without your permission and does find what they thought they would. you are in a situation of trying to prove there was no probable cause, kinda like being guilty, then having to prove you are innocent. In court its your word against the officers, remember mind you that the cop did find illegal items he was looking for, I saw 95% of the time your SOL

That was in reference to your pin-headed attitude toward people who live in manufactured housing and have sun-burned necks, very few of whom would make fun of you.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
A Texas Game Warden will go where he dang well pleases. He has more leeway in pursit of law-breakers than any other law enforcement officer that I am aware of.

Since Texas is 99% private (or threrabouts) A game warden without the ability, or desire to enter private land is completely worthless.

I think this is great. We need more game wardens in Texas, and we need to up thjeir salry. I do not know what they make, but I am sure it is not enough.

Exactly!

I live in North East Texas and poaching is rampant up here along the red river.

quote:

I live in North East Texas and poaching is rampant up here along the red river.

Hmmmmmmmmm, The East Texas trailer trash rednecks must be moving north.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:
A Texas warden is the same as any other policeman. He cannot come into your house without a search warrant unless you give him permission. There have always been rumors that he could but that is bs. They do now have the authority to look in your cooler is you are actively hunting or fishing. Until the last legislative session they couldn't do that if you refused unless they got a search warrant. Before the legislation was passed people were refusing to let them search coolers or board their boats. They can go on private land without permission but as far as I know they can't cut the lock off your gate. I do know that if I caught one doing that on one of my ranches one of us would get an old fashioned ass kicking. The good wardens work with the landowners and are usually given keys to the ranchs.

M16 you better read the game laws again! That old fasioned ass kicking might get you some free room and board!

Well, I own 13,000 acres at the moment and have since the early 1900's. I would just soon any law man stay the hell off of my property. If I can not handle a problem...I might call for one but...I would just as soon they stay away.
I am pretty damn protective of my critters and have all the gates locked down tight not to mention cowboys with instruction to be ugly about you being on property without permission.
We have night vision and suppressed rifles (all nice and legal) for you that want to play fun and games in the dark. There are Posted and No Tresspass signs everywhere and you will need to cut a chain to get in. Just not kosher in my books if you do that.
If we are hunting we have all the proper / current lic. and do follow the law but....just go be a law dog someplace else.