This happened not far from me.


https://wcti12.com/news/local/...ck-by-unknown-animal

Maybe it was a friendly neighborhood pitbull?

Just friendly furry forest critters doing what friendly forest critters do.

Never heard of an attack like this...
Seems far more likely it was a domaestic canid of some sort...
But it does appear this sweet little old lady was frail which they may have sensed.

quote:

Never heard of an attack like this...

Just do a little internet research and you can find a lot of information out.

Coyote attacks, wolf attacks.

1) these are Red Wolves so I would guess there has never been a known killing of a Human in reported history and incredibly few from their cousins the Grey or Timber wolves
2) Coyotes...I just did a search. It appears there are 142 know incidences "of some kind" in the last 60 years according to one statistical site. Some massive percentage (at least 75%+) of all incidence happens in California. Of which approximately 50 in total were deemed "predatory" (I wonder how many in say a Suburban environment)

The vast majority of attacks are on small children. If this ends up being coyotes it may be the only adult ever killed by them or one of less than 5-10 ever and probably the only one East of the MS.

Probability of this being a Domestic dog (perhaps a feral stray she went up to) are likely 99%+

This is a rural area close to large National wildlife refuges. I would not think that a wild dog would last long with the amount of coyotes that we have. Our coyotes are not small. Very common to kill them in the 50 pound range. A friend of mine killed a Timber Wolf right outside of my hometown a few years ago. I am trying to find the article. He called gamewarden as soon as he shot it. We think the timber companies put them out. We know they put out coyotes. I hear red wolfs all the time and see them every now and then. I am guessing this was a pack of reds or coy wolfs.

I know what I saw run across the road there last October was either the world record coyote or a red wolf and I saw it twice in one week. At the time I did not think Clark believed me.

Poyntman

Well going from never heard of to finding 160 attacks.

Should be of interest to you.

Young woman killed by a coyote on Cape Breton in 2009.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...cape-breton-1.779304

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Poyntman

Well going from never heard of to finding 160 attacks.

Should be of interest to you.

P dog...don't be an asshole...because your being an asshole....
I've still never heard of one personally..
And probably looking at the statistics neither have you personally.
I didn't say one never happened in the history of the world.
The statistics are approx .0000000011 (of an attack not a death) since you seem to be an authority on the subject. And it appears there may never have been a death East of the MS and probably less than 5 in History..
But...apparently you're personallyfamiliar with the one or two in North American recorded History.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
This is a rural area close to large National wildlife refuges. I would not think that a wild dog would last long with the amount of coyotes that we have. Our coyotes are not small. Very common to kill them in the 50 pound range. A friend of mine killed a Timber Wolf right outside of my hometown a few years ago. I am trying to find the article. He called gamewarden as soon as he shot it. We think the timber companies put them out. We know they put out coyotes. I hear red wolfs all the time and see them every now and then. I am guessing this was a pack of reds or coy wolfs.

The CoyWolf hybrid between Red Wolf and Coyote is fairly common and I think mainly in this general area. I guess the Red Wolves are largely decended from a Coyote/Grey Wolf branch of the Family tree.
(Considering the are Wolf has a very small habitat) To your point here in the Southeast we have some very large specimens like you mention. This is much larger than a typical Coyote and Red Wolves are very very shy.
I remember when they reintroduced them to TN.

Deigning by using statistics that large predators are not a danger to humans goes against thousands of years of human history.

And is a common tactic used by the other side to convince people that they are just friendly furry forest critters that mean no harm.

Hers a couple of links one might find interesting.

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...conds-to-impact.html

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...less-wolves-was.html

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Poyntman

Well going from never heard of to finding 160 attacks.

Should be of interest to you.

P dog...don't be an asshole...because your being an asshole....
I've still never heard of one personally..
And probably looking at the statistics neither have you personally.
I didn't say one never happened in the history of the world.
The statistics are approx .0000000011 (of an attack not a death) since you seem to be an authority on the subject. And it appears there may never have been a death East of the MS and probably less than 5 in History..
But...apparently you're personallyfamiliar with the one or two in North American recorded History.

Only the Wolves and victims know for sure how many attacks there have been.I am sure it is many more than you presume since you share no factual data besides Myths of how Wolves do not attack humans.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Poyntman

Well going from never heard of to finding 160 attacks.

Should be of interest to you.

P dog...don't be an asshole...because your being an asshole....
I've still never heard of one personally..
And probably looking at the statistics neither have you personally.
I didn't say one never happened in the history of the world.
The statistics are approx .0000000011 (of an attack not a death) since you seem to be an authority on the subject. And it appears there may never have been a death East of the MS and probably less than 5 in History..
But...apparently you're personallyfamiliar with the one or two in North American recorded History.

Only the Wolves and victims know for sure how many attacks there have been.I am sure it is many more than you presume since you share no factual data besides Myths of how Wolves do not attack humans.

Fair enough...remember you live up in Grey Wolf territory. Here's your stats (on the non existence)
I don't know of nor can find a documented RedWolf Attack....now then tell me how many documented Coyote attacks on an adult East of the MS and below the Mason Dixon Lines you can find in history....
I never said impossible... I said I've never heard of one and got jumped on

Now...P Dog just raised a very real point...our human perception of Wolves and their Danger. So, I found research that said from approx 1200 Ad in Europe to "modern times" there was a much larger incidence.. a couple of important things happened...Humans developed weapons and put an Ass Whooping on Predators...
We got better and they got scared of humans as a result. Talking about Canids not Alpha predators like Bears and Lions that are more dominate (and frankly not as intelligent)


wiki Coyote stats
Coyote stats US Canada
Wolf attack stats

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
This is a rural area close to large National wildlife refuges. I would not think that a wild dog would last long with the amount of coyotes that we have. Our coyotes are not small. Very common to kill them in the 50 pound range. A friend of mine killed a Timber Wolf right outside of my hometown a few years ago. I am trying to find the article. He called gamewarden as soon as he shot it. We think the timber companies put them out. We know they put out coyotes. I hear red wolfs all the time and see them every now and then. I am guessing this was a pack of reds or coy wolfs.

IMHO, there is no place where it is "very common" or even "common" to kill coyotes in the 50 pound range. For example, the 2019 6th Annual Carolina Coyote Classic, based in North Carolina, had a total of 107 Hunters check in 137 coyotes. The heaviest was 41 pounds.

According to US Fish & Wildlife Service, "a five-county area in eastern North Carolina is home to the only wild population of red wolves in the world." They have an estimated population of 45 ( more HERE). Next to the refuge is Hyde County, where a Red Wolf (not Timber) was shot in 2015 under circumstances similar to what you describe. It is suspected that the red wolf came from the Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge. Next to Hyde County, and about 40 miles as the crow flies from Alligator Refuge, is Beaufort County, where this woman was attacked.

Assuming that NC red wolves are also in breeding season right now like the coyotes, it seems plausible that one wolf could have ventured that far and did what wolves, coyotes or hungry dogs do.

Interestingly, one of the links suggests a bleak future for these red wolves, as "Interbreeding with the coyote (an exotic species not native to North Carolina) has been recognized as the most significant and detrimental threat affecting restoration of red wolves in this section of their historical home range."

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
2) Coyotes...I just did a search. It appears there are 142 know incidences "of some kind" in the last 60 years according to one statistical site. Some massive percentage (at least 75%+) of all incidence happens in California. Some massive percentage (at least 75%+) of all incidence happens in California. Of which approximately 50 in total were deemed "predatory" (I wonder how many in say a Suburban environment)

The Study you refer to states: "General Attack Patterns - We tabulated 142 reported attack incidents resulting in 159 victims bitten by coyotes during 1960-2006. Attacks were reported from a wide geographic area, including four provinces and 14 states (Figure 2). However, most attacks occurred within the western portion of the United States, with 49% of attacks occurring in California and 13% in Arizona."

You cannot simply provide numbers without considering the basis behind them. The reason the rate is so high for California is due to the amount of data the researchers used exclusively from California (23 + 6 = 29% or almost one third of the data came exclusively from California.)

"Results - We collected 46% of the attack reports from newspaper databases. We also retrieved several records from published articles on coyote attacks: 23% were collected from Timmet al.’s (2004) review of attacks in California, 23% were collected from Timmet al.’s (2004) review of attacks in California, 1% from Carbyn’s review of attacks in national parks in Canada and the northwestern United States (Carbyn, 1989), 6% from Howell’s review of attacks in Los Angeles County 6% from Howell’s review of attacks in Los Angeles County (Howell, 1982), and one record from Hsu and Hallagan’s report of an attack in Yellowstone National Park (1996). We obtained 19% of records from wildlife agencies and 5% from online news sources."

quote:

IMHO, there is no place where it is "very common" or even "common" to kill coyotes in the 50 pound range. For example, the 2019 6th Annual Carolina Coyote Classic, based in North Carolina, had a total of 107 Hunters check in 137 coyotes. The heaviest was 41 pounds

I have trapped and shot and seen a lot of coyotes shot. The biggest one was at weighed 52 pounds most are in the 20 to 35 pound range.

The 52 pounder was shot at 10 feet with my 4 inch 357 as I stilled hunted deer with my bow.

125jhp took him in the throat broke his neck and lodged in his shoulder.

DRT.

I seen a lot of wolves in NW Wis. some have been bigger then my 100lb lab.

There was a article published by Cornell some time back that claimed Red Wolves were never a distinct species, just a Coyote X Wolf hybrid according to DNA research.

I’ve trapped Coyotes in ME, MA, VT, NY, PA, NC, MI, OH, IN, & MO and never caught one over 40 pounds. One of my friends in NY caught one that was 70 lbs+-. DNA revealed it was a coyote x wolf hybrid.

I wonder if anyone had the presence of mind to swab the woman’s wounds for DNA analysis. It’s incredably cheap to do these days.

quote:

Originally posted by erict:

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
2) Coyotes...I just did a search. It appears there are 142 know incidences "of some kind" in the last 60 years according to one statistical site. Some massive percentage (at least 75%+) of all incidence happens in California. Some massive percentage (at least 75%+) of all incidence happens in California. Of which approximately 50 in total were deemed "predatory" (I wonder how many in say a Suburban environment)

The Study you refer to states: "General Attack Patterns - We tabulated 142 reported attack incidents resulting in 159 victims bitten by coyotes during 1960-2006. Attacks were reported from a wide geographic area, including four provinces and 14 states (Figure 2). However, most attacks occurred within the western portion of the United States, with 49% of attacks occurring in California and 13% in Arizona."

You cannot simply provide numbers without considering the basis behind them. The reason the rate is so high for California is due to the amount of data the researchers used exclusively from California (23 + 6 = 29% or almost one third of the data came exclusively from California.)

"Results - We collected 46% of the attack reports from newspaper databases. We also retrieved several records from published articles on coyote attacks: 23% were collected from Timmet al.’s (2004) review of attacks in California, 23% were collected from Timmet al.’s (2004) review of attacks in California, 1% from Carbyn’s review of attacks in national parks in Canada and the northwestern United States (Carbyn, 1989), 6% from Howell’s review of attacks in Los Angeles County 6% from Howell’s review of attacks in Los Angeles County (Howell, 1982), and one record from Hsu and Hallagan’s report of an attack in Yellowstone National Park (1996). We obtained 19% of records from wildlife agencies and 5% from online news sources."

Now..you are being fair...so rattle off now how many ADULT attacks anywhere registered and more specifically two things
1) how many registered deaths of adults in the lower 48 and#2
2) are ther or is ther a single reported attack resulting in death East of the MS??

My point was it's is highly improbable...never heard of such an event..she was a sweet little old lady who taught at a local Christian Scool

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:
There was a article published by Cornell some time back that claimed Red Wolves were never a distinct species, just a Coyote X Wolf hybrid according to DNA research.

I’ve trapped Coyotes in ME, MA, VT, NY, PA, NC, MI, OH, IN, & MO and never caught one over 40 pounds. One of my friends in NY caught one that was 70 lbs+-. DNA revealed it was a coyote x wolf hybrid.

I wonder if anyone had the presence of mind to swab the woman’s wounds for DNA analysis. It’s incredably cheap to do these days.

Now that I've looked all,this up again you are absolutely correct
The Red Wolf is a Grey Wolf/Coyote hybrid
Now we've all heard of these CoyWolf/Hybrid research. Now they know from DNA. One study said 76% Coyote/24% Wolf...but it was challenged as the Red Wolfs studied were "too recent" in terms of samples
So...they split from Grey Wolf some 300,000 years ago I thin I read...
The more recent...the more divergent from pure wolf to Coyote

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:
There was a article published by Cornell some time back that claimed Red Wolves were never a distinct species, just a Coyote X Wolf hybrid according to DNA research.

I’ve trapped Coyotes in ME, MA, VT, NY, PA, NC, MI, OH, IN, & MO and never caught one over 40 pounds. One of my friends in NY caught one that was 70 lbs+-. DNA revealed it was a coyote x wolf hybrid.

I wonder if anyone had the presence of mind to swab the woman’s wounds for DNA analysis. It’s incredably cheap to do these days.

Oh..also to your point...
female Hybrids I think from that study are 60# and males up to 80#
A male at 70# + is perfectly in line

I seen wolves that look a lot like a coyote the only reason I didn't pull the trigger on them.

Was they were in the 80lb range.

Come close several times can be real hard to tell when they are running for all they are worth in front of a pack of hounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Maybe it was a friendly neighborhood pitbull?

Most likely scenario. Happens on Native reserves around here occasionally. Dogs get together in a bunch and the wolf pack trait resurfaces.

Grizz

I do not understand the argument that Rec Wolves are not there own sun species simply because they are a hybrid of gray wolf and coyotes.

The old rule was if two pairs could breed and produce viable off spring they are the same species. This is way dogs and wolves for a long time were considered the same species. They could interbreed. All dog breeds in theory from bio-chem stand point, can breed and produce viable off spring. No, a Yorker cannot carry a Great Dane to term, it you can artificially in-simulate a Great Dane with a Yorker, and the Great Dane will give birth to viable off spring. This rule is loosing ground to the DNA “spliters.”

New species rise from breeding and hybridization. Why is it not correct to categorize Red Wolves as a species? Under the old rule wolves and coyotes were the same species since they could breed and produce viable off spring.

As for wolve and coyote attacks, I put it down to shark bites. Some happen maybe a little more often than recorded, but not common. Take wise precautions in areas where they may be encountered. Much more likely to get mugged by human or chewed on by a black bear (though every wants to talk about brown bear attacks).

Stated otherwise, just because getting struck by lightning is rare does not console those who have lost to say, “Well, that was odd.”

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
This is a rural area close to large National wildlife refuges. I would not think that a wild dog would last long with the amount of coyotes that we have. Our coyotes are not small. Very common to kill them in the 50 pound range. A friend of mine killed a Timber Wolf right outside of my hometown a few years ago. I am trying to find the article. He called gamewarden as soon as he shot it. We think the timber companies put them out. We know they put out coyotes. I hear red wolfs all the time and see them every now and then. I am guessing this was a pack of reds or coy wolfs.

Rather shocking. I had no idea there were wolves in the Carolinas.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
This is a rural area close to large National wildlife refuges. I would not think that a wild dog would last long with the amount of coyotes that we have. Our coyotes are not small. Very common to kill them in the 50 pound range. A friend of mine killed a Timber Wolf right outside of my hometown a few years ago. I am trying to find the article. He called gamewarden as soon as he shot it. We think the timber companies put them out. We know they put out coyotes. I hear red wolfs all the time and see them every now and then. I am guessing this was a pack of reds or coy wolfs.

Rather shocking. I had no idea there were wolves in the Carolinas.

I'm betting someone is grasping at straws, Couldn't be dogs, NO Way.

Grizz

Nothing to do with who is attacking whom, but...

Apparently "real" red wolves are not mixed with coyotes. Whether any remain aside from the 17 purebred wolves sampled from a captive breeding population of 40 still exist is another question.

“Rediscovery of Red Wolf Ghost Alleles in a Canid Population Along the American Gulf Coast” by Elizabeth Heppenheimer, Kristin Brzeski, Ron Wooten, William Waddell, Linda Rutledge, Michael Chamberlain, Daniel Stahler, Joseph Hinton and Bridgett vonHoldt was published Dec. 10 in the “Conservation Genetics and Genomics” special issue of the journal Genes (DOI: 10.3390/genes9120618). Their work was supported by the Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium’s Holly Reed Conservation Fund, the National Science Foundation (grants PRFB-1523859 and DEB-1245373), the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada’s Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry, and Yellowstone Forever.

Well we know that wolves will kill people.For eons,in Russia it seems the troika filled peasants were the canapes of the day.Seriously though,since the wolves have been reintroduced in the Dakota districts,they have adapted + bred well into their natural habitat.P-dog,it might be different up where you are but down here if we see a coyote or wolf (rarely) it is considered a public service to take it out.Livestock here has more importance than the predators.As I heard a judge say one time,"I don't consider it your right to take out feral dogs,coyotes,wolves,etc.,I consider it your obligation."

Well as it stands now it is a federal felony to shoot a wolf in WI MN and MI.

I prefer not to risk my whole life over a wolf.

Coyotes are a hole different story.

They reinvented the red wolves breeding coyote with timber wolves under the endangered species act .I have packs of these near my cabin in North georgia .They have eaten all the deer and lots of the bears. They need to go I knew they would start taking down people !

Wolf attacks on humans. T.R. Mader

I knew the author.
State Legislator from Campbell County, Gillette, WY.
He has passed.


http://www.gccga.com/assets/wo...-on-humans-11pgs.pdf

Your first clue is "by Red Wolves or Coyotes" Sounds like a damn poor investigation..read the sigh and do some DNA..Sounds like fake news or whatever...

I've lived with coyotes, Mt. Lion and bobcats my whole life and short of rabid I will never believe they kill humans and it boils down to sensationalism, and just news media BS gone rampant..

I will suggest perhaps in an area like California where preditors of all kinds are protected, live amongst humans could loose all respect for the human, particularly small children and pets.

Im sorry, but I don't believe coyotes are man killers, but finding a dead body and eating it is common enough, as will skunks, and foxes but killing, nope!

The other thing is, contrary to some, coyotes don't pack like wolves, rather they go in pairs and talk to each other in the early mornings, evenings and at night from across the ridges..on a kill 4 or 5 might come in to feed with each other. Coyotes will kill pets, partically cats and small dogs..

Alaskan wolves are a different story and I don't know much about them but folks that live amongst them don't seem to live in daily fear except on television.

Ray, I believe there have been many cases of malnourished lions attacking and in some cases killing people.

Eastern coyotes will hunt in large family units, or packs if you want to call them that.
They are foolish enough to give voice when circled up on a cow and calf, trying to get at the calf. It's the only time I take a semi auto out to shoot something, is checking on calving heifers in the pastures. I have had multiple shots on coyotes that way.
In central VT last week a woman was attacked by a rabid coyote. Very rare, coyotes are usually wary enough to not get involved with an infected animal to catch rabies.

Any followups on the DNA sequencing? As to coyotes, those here in our desert are really small, maybe 25 pounds. But this is New Mexico, not North Carolina.

quote:

Your first clue is "by Red Wolves or Coyotes" Sounds like a damn poor investigation..read the sigh and do some DNA..Sounds like fake news or whatever...I've lived with coyotes, Mt. Lion and bobcats my whole life and short of rabid I will never believe they kill humans and it boils down to sensationalism, and just news media BS gone rampant..I will suggest perhaps in an area like California where preditors of all kinds are protected, live amongst humans could loose all respect for the human, particularly small children and pets. Im sorry, but I don't believe coyotes are man killers, but finding a dead body and eating it is common enough, as will skunks, and foxes but killing, nope!The other thing is, contrary to some, coyotes don't pack like wolves, rather they go in pairs and talk to each other in the early mornings, evenings and at night from across the ridges..on a kill 4 or 5 might come in to feed with each other. Coyotes will kill pets, partically cats and small dogs..Alaskan wolves are a different story and I don't know much about them but folks that live amongst them don't seem to live in daily fear except on television.

DNA Reports came back as being k9. This is not fake news. Coyotes not hunting in packs? Not the case here in Eastern NC. I saw twenty the other day while turkey hunting in one big group. Like I said I think that most of ours are coy wolfs. Why else would they be so much larger here than in other places in the country. Rarely do we kill one under thirty pounds. I was talking to some friends that think it could of been wild pit bulls. There is a big following of dog fighting among the African Americans in this area. Common for labs to get stolen to be used as bait dogs. Other words they let the pit bull kill the lab to give it confidence. Really disturbing. You do not sell or give away dogs on craigs list in this area.

I think that a pack of wild pit bulls could of easily killed this poor lady.