The serial sniper operating around the D.C. area uses a .223. The news people which are totally ignorant about guns in general are acting like there is something sinisterly dangerous about this particular and "extremely powerfull(their words)" caliber over other calibers. This morning Katie Kouric was asking an ex-FBI agent about the .223 having a spin to it that destroys flesh as if no other bullet does the same. She seemed to barely understand that the copper colored part/bullet separated from the gold colored part/case and that the copper colored part/bullet is what hits the victom.

Sounds like the guy is shooting the wrong people.

This may sound dumb, but I sure hope the guy is using a single shot or bolt ation. I don't want to see any more crap about banning assult rifles or any other firearm for that matter. That doesn't quite sound worded right, but it's the best I can do. Hope everyone understands.

[ 10-09-2002, 20:18: Message edited by: jcsabolt-2 ]

If Bill Ruger were alive, would he jump on the anti-gun bandwagon again to ban the .223?

Actually, in their ignorants the news people are mentioning assault rifles as the possible weapon not realizing that the rifle being used is much more accurate than any assault rifle.

Just to show the ignorance of the media, they showed unfired shells, of various large calibers and explained how bullets just like these were recovered. Fingerprint like patterns were taken of the bullets so they could be matched to the gun they were fired from. They appeared to be 30.06, .308 or various other larger calibers than the .223. Then to make things more terrifying they showed an M16 AR15 style weapon with a 30 round banana clip as the type of "ASSAULT" weapon being used. They had a "ex retired" military sniper on their giving all the secrets of the trained sniper. They said that he can't be a sniper cause all law enforcement military personnel who are snipers are trained in only 2 schools. I would say that must be a slight misleading statement, because I know of individuals on the State level SWAT team with a Sniper certification that hasn't went to these "2" schools.

This case is tragic for the victims and disinformational to the public.

Many in the public are being lead to believe that a bullet fired from a gun is as unique to that gun as is DNA to an organism. There are renewed calls by "safety" groups to have each gun fired at the factory and the projectile cataloged as the gun's "finger print".

Of course most on this forum know that it is theoretically possible to identify the manufacturer of the barrel from a pristine projectile (or at least rule out that a projectile was fired from a particular manufacture of barrel). In some instances it can be reasonably well established whether two well-preserved projectiles came from the same individual barrel. This process is inexact, usually requires a projectile in better condition than average, and requires some luck that the individual barrel had some distinguishing flaw or quirk. On the other hand, projectiles, particulalarly those fairly fragile, fast expanding ones as in the case at hand, are often mangled to the point of being useless for positive identification of a subject firearm, much less useful for picking a suspect firearm out of thousands of similar profiles. In other words, pre-identification records of projectiles at the factory is of no practical forensic use and is a thinly-veiled stalking horse for universal firearms registration (which may or may not be desirable, depending on your point of view, but is nonetheless not a forensic tool).

As an illustration as to just how relatively useless bullet identification is, I realize that a .223 shell casing has been found near the site of one shooting and is presumed to be from the assailant's weapon. But prior to that discovery, the press was reporting that it had been determined from the recovered projectile fragments that the gun was a ".223". As you know, identical projectiles are commonly used in factory ammunition for the .222, .222 Magnum, .22-250, and a host of other .22 centerfire calibers. So it was pure speculation that the actual rifle was a .223.

Speaking of the shell casing, it is much easier to match a case to the chamber in which it was fired than the bullet to the barrel in which it was fired. Despite this fact, the "safety" advocates have not suggested cataloging fired cases to match guns as they have fired bullets to match guns. This is significant evidence that the "safety" advocates either don't know anything about the technical steps they are advocating, or that the technical issues are secondary to an unstated ulterior goal.

This is a horrible tragedy which may not be over yet. Let's hope the tragedy is not further compounded.

Wrong! They have suggested cataloguing the spent casings used when test firing new guns.
Another idea I heard was laser engraving a serial number on the botton of bullets and recording this number and the buyer.
Yet another idea was NICS checks on powder sales. A $7 check on a $17 can of powder.
Bottom line is they want to kill the sport of shooting through many small 'reasonable' sounding actions.

You know if maybe they would just make shooting people illegal then none of this would happen..... oh wait it already is so if the law didn't keep this guy from doing what it is that he is doing well then, can we say deductive reasoning folks. If it is found to be something other than a semi auto, which I am sure it will be, then we will get another bogus designation for rifles to strike fear into ignorants ie. sniper rifle. Nothing is more annoying than the term "assult rifle" these designations are only given to make it easier to vilify broad catagories of weapons. And once sniper rifles are defined as any rifle carrying a scope over Xpower that has the potential to shoot over 200 yards, hang on they're coming after your hunting rigs boys and girls Just my .02 gabe

Here we go again, We as law abiding hunters and lovers of the shooting sports might as well assume the position as we are about to get it in the Arse again. Sad but most likely true.

I missed this mornings interview- but- they still haven't given us any indication as to what kind of bullet was used. They said it was a .223 but we all know it could have been any case that shoots a .224, even if they did find a .223 case at one of the shooting sights- could have been a "plant"- who knows. The bullet that hit the glass was unidentifiable so I have to assume this wasn't an FMJ. I'm getting the impression that it's probably just a box of CorLokts or some other expanding soft nose? I would think all of the shots were probably inside 200yds- 300max(urban environment). ..could be anything from assault, bolt, semi-sporter, T.Contender?
It's probably an anti-gun-ner trying to stir things up so they start screaming about the anti-gun laws again. Sounds like England and the ban against pump shotguns.
..time for Texas to secede again and become the Republic of Texas again...

oh man,what a bunch of crap!!a 22-250 would do a hell of alot more damage than a 223,so would a host of other larger calibers,if this something that they would even consider then all rifle calibers would be banned,course they have a hell of a war on their hands if they tried to peoples guns away.even gun owners in the military would turn on the government.if the people that got only wounded had been hit with a 7mmstw or 300rum then they wouldnt be injured they would a pile of hamburger.so, the trilogy goes on..didnt catch the race of the victims,what were they?

guns dont kill people,people kill people....thats the motto all anti gunners should ingrain into there idealistic heaven on earth attitudes.they gonna ban gasoline and washing powder too,those two combos in a bottle with a simple cloth fuse will cause a much more horrific death than being shot,i'd rather be shot...nor are they gonna ban knifes and being cut is gonna cause you to die just as quick(especially if you know where to cut/stab) and being cut really hurts to....

In my opinion the worst scenerio is that it is a bolt action sporter with a 3-9x40 leupold, just a plain old ruger MK11 or rem 700. As someone posted above your deer rig will then be classed as a "sniper rifle" by the bunny rooters and the anti's. The worst thing is one whacko like this usually triggers off another fuck up to blow his gasket and do something stupid.

Crafter, white, hispanic, black, male, female, children. So far. - Dan

The sad part about this is that they call this puke a Sniper. What bunch of crap. To use the term "Sniper" is an insult to the dedicated professionals out there that really are, not some drive by scum shooting kids and guys filling up their tank at the local gas station.
Besides, if the guy gonna shoot some people, why doesn't he work on Rosie Odonell or Peter Jenning, maybe Hillary Clinton or Sarah Brady. At least his ammo would be going to a good cause.

I have been following the crap on CNN.com and MSNBC.com. One idiot called it a .233 yes that is right a .233. Another one referred to the spent casing as a bullet. Still another mentioned a speeding projectile of over 3000 fps when it leaves the cannon. There are video clips showing how long the effective range is. They also mention that the .223 will leave holes as large as coffee cups. Go over there and read the crap being published.

I was in the UK a few weeks back and some people were advocating the ban of knives and swords because you guessed it, someone was killed with one over there. It will never end. To the morons in the media we are barbarians.

That's ok guys, bank in my youth, dan rather refered the 6.5 x 52 Carcano as a .30-06. they really are very stupid, and its not just guns. As for this, this is a terror cell, its to organised to be other wise.

It would be a real trip when this person is caught and it turns out to be a rebarreled tuned Ruger # 1 single shot and a 6 x scope. The newsies would have a melt down. In the end, its no different that the "sun of sam" in the 1970s Murder is just plain murder.