I have a custom 300 WM that loves 180 grain Fail Safes. It is a new gun that hasn't seen much of the field yet, and I have never used Fail Safes on game in any rifle that I have owned. This gun will be used on a variety of game from pronghorn to moose sized game, and hopefully on more than one continent. We seem to hear the good and the bad about Barnes X bullets, but what about the Fail Safe? How can I expect it to perform on this size variety of game?

chuck

In my experience, the Fail Safe is everything the Barnes X wants to be, and then some. It doesn't foul my barrels nearly as bad, it groups much better in all of my rifles, and performance has been much more consistent. I've used the 180gr in my own 300 Win mag. since the bullet's inception and it has taken everything from antelope to eland, it works fine. It will not expand much on smallish game, but on anything mule deer size and up I've not experienced a problem with lack of expansion. It does like velocity, the more the merrier.

I've been wondering about the FailSafe myself. Is the bullet commercially available to the reloader? So far i have not seen it in stores, or i have not looked enough.

Please tell me i don't have to buy factory ammo and pull the bullets.

Thanks

Midway and most other shooting supply houses carry them. I will say that the component bullets are moly coated, whereas the ones loaded into new ammo have Olin's Lubalox coating. Maybe if enough folks write to them they will come out with a moly-free version like they did with Partition golds.

It is definately available as a reloading component.

chuck

In my experience the X and the failsafe are very similar with one exception.

To me the Failsafe is a bullet I can count on to be consistently accurate. I am not able to say this of the X.

On game I feel they perform about the same.

Just my thoughts and observations.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I've been wondering about the FailSafe myself. Is the bullet commercially available to the reloader? So far i have not seen it in stores, or i have not looked enough.

Please tell me i don't have to buy factory ammo and pull the bullets.

Thanks

I've used the 180 gr. Fail-Safe extensively in the .300 Winchester on game ranging from Texas whitetails, to Oregon elk, to African lion. The Fail-Safe just might be the ultimate big game bullet (if your rifle shoots it acceptably), and it works just as well on the small stuff as it does the big stuff. Since it has a lead core encased in a steel cup at the rear, it achieves the same weight as the Barnes X with a shorter over-all length, which is a distinct advantage.

AD

I would have to concur with the comments above. I have tried Barnes several times and am just not able to make them work in my rifles.

But I've had good success with FailSafes. This past summer I loaded the 270 grain FS in my 375 H&H, which was used with exemplary results in Zimbabwe.

They are indeed available from Midway and probably other reloading outlets.

My 300 WSM loves failsafes... 3/4" groups. I took a large cow elk at something around 325 yards this year with them. Two shots through the boiler room, two exit's. The internal damage was not as extensive as a more frangible bullet, but I chose the FS's for the possibility of a rear/raking shot and would gladly use them again.

BA

[ 01-11-2003, 06:16: Message edited by: Brad ]

I think the failsafe copied the Barnes X. My tests have shown that the Barnes X expands about 20% more than the failsafe and the pedals on the Barnes X are larger than the failsafe and dont come off as easy as the failsafe pedals do. Yes the failsafe penetrates deeper sometimes, but that is because the X has a larger front face. My own tests have revealed that the Barnes X in the 25-06 using the 85gr at over 3550fps doesn't fail and had super penetration and didn't loose one pedal. The X also creates a larger wound channel while still giving sufficient penetration. Accuracy is just a matter of seating the X's for your gun. Seating for accuracy should be done with every bullet not just the X.If you want a bullet for pure penetration and minimal expansion for large game then maybee you will choose the failsafe, but if you want a bullet for large and small game with great expansion then you will want to choose the X. You know what they say about Opinions.Ha Ha. I suggest that you do your own tests. Try shooting a box of saturated newspaper at 100 yds. Make sure to use saturated newspaper as both the X and failsafe open hydraulically. and use plenty of it ,about 24" packed tight or you wont find either one. Saturated phone books works better.

Once a King always a King but once a night, is enough.

getaloadof... I have a "funny" feeling about you. You showed up exactly on the heels of Coni Brooks of Barnes bullets on the same thread that brought her here to AR... every thread you've posted on you've managed to interject something postitive about Barnes X's... are you a Barnes employee/associate or just a friend of the family? I'm all for "positive" things about Barnes Bullets... I think if they'll shoot in your gun they're wonderful. Yes I have used them on game. However, your (dis)information/characterization of the FailSafe is deadwrong. It's certainly possible to say good things about the X without mis-characterizing the FS. If you are any of the things I suspect you are I doubt it's really fair to post here as a "regular joe."

In front of me on my desk I have two bullets... A 180 FailSafe and a 165 XLCBT.

Both were retrieved from the semi-frozen gumbo behind my targets.

The 180 Failsafe was fired at a muzzle velocity of 2,900 fps and has retained all four petals... it mic's .635" at its widest point. It resembles a perfect promo-photo for this type of bullet.

The 165 gr Barnes XLCBT was fired at a muzzle velocity of 2,750 fps, one petal "smeared off and it mic's .670 at its widest point. Apart from its missing petal, it too looks "picture perfect."

The mushroom's in size, etc., look identical.

Where do you come up with your "20% more expansion"... what does that even mean? Are you talking frontal area?

If you have no agenda or hidden motivation and I have mis-characterized you I apologize. Regardless, your information about X's vs. FS's is so far from reality I'd have to say I'd be in doubt about much anything you'd post.

BA

[ 01-12-2003, 07:32: Message edited by: Brad ]

I would also like to know why you think Olin copied the X? There is very little similar about them other than a solid copper front portion. But Jack Carter made his Bear Claw soft points that way a long time ago! The FS uses multi component construction whereas the X is a solid copper slug. The FS doesn't foul barrels nearly as much as the X, it isn't as long a bullet weight for weight and it is accurate in a larger number of barrels. In my experience, there is nothing about an X bullet that makes it superior to a FS in any way. Equal, yes it can be.

getaloadof
You said you ran some tests with the 25/06. Did you compare FS 25cal? If you did where did you get them? I havn't been able to find them for reloading.
Please let me know.

Hey Boilerroom,

You may get them from Cabelas, the shipping costs suck, but they have always had 7mm and 338 Failsafes whenever I needed them

Mike

I don't think that they make 25 caliber Fail Safes.

chuck

Exactly

[ 01-13-2003, 07:04: Message edited by: boilerroom ]

T

I just checked Noslers site, the smallest Failsafe is in 270 cal.

I guess it's the X bullet for you

Mike

You have a very good bullet and caliber for long range shooting

Gonzo:

I have some 300 Win 180 gr Factory Fail Safe ammo, and 180 gr Fail Safes to reload I will sell you cheap.

I just don't need them any more.

Write me at tblauwkamp@superior-sales.com or call 1-800-283-8714 days ext 112