I hate these kind of posts but here I go. I have in my small collection of rifles a 22, 223, 6.5x55,25-06,35 Whelen, and a 375H&H. I however do not at the moment have a 30 cal. Which I find just plain unAmerican.
I have a Sears model 50 Belguin made action that needs to be either a 30-06 or a 300 winnie. I am pulled toward the 300 winnine a little more as I like to have a little more punch at 200 to 300 yards. Then on the other hand I thought one time that it would be neat to have one rifle chambered for each legitimate cartridge based on the -06 case. This would make me one step closer.
BUT if I could find a magnum length magazine and wanted to go to the expense I could always build a 300 H&H, but since we are being patriotic here I am not sure about that.
I don't know what I am going to do but I do know that it is a good problem to have! What do you think?

It would seem that since this new projects birthday is likely to fall into the next year, that the 100th anniversary of the Cal. .30 Model 1906 might be a good way to go. One of the more interesting things to do when contemplating a new addition is to layout as many of the (.30 caliber cartridges in this case) casing and ponder the merits and velocity potential of each. I for one don't feel that the difference in performance is worth the difference in recoil and magizine capacity. Regardless you will ed up with a nice rifle! Good luck and good shooting.

IMHO the perfect .30 cal would have a capacity somewhere between a 30-06 and a 300 WM. The WSM falls somewhat into that description but should have been a bit thinner and longer. I do like the fact that it is about the right capacity and beltless though. What's a guy to do?


There is a downside to the concept of having a plethora of 06 based chamberings, (even though I do) that is the potential to get the wrong ammo in one of them. One thing I like about nickel 280 brass.

A 30 Mag would round off your battery well, but only if you would be happy with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
IMHO the perfect .30 cal would have a capacity somewhere between a 30-06 and a 300 WM.

Sure sounds like a 308 Norma or .30-338 to me. They would be excellent choices IMO. Personally, I'd do the .30-338.

ssrree o ate norma nagnum!

30-06 Imp???

Or employ one of Brownell's magazine blocks and chamber it into my favorite .30, the .308 Winchester.

I cant help my self!
The .3006' is as classic as baseball and apple pie.

The .300 H&H by far. It packs plenty of punch. The only drawback is it is pretty well a handloading proposition. Factory loads when you can find them are pretty pricey. One thing I definitely like about the H&H round is that it feeds glass smooth. My first .300 H&H was built on a standard length Mark X action that the gunsmith opened up. It got me my first elk and more than a few antelope and a few deer. Right now I am setting on a P-17 action that I am thinking of sending off and having it barrelled for the .300 H&H.

ElCabellero

I have a 300 WM built on one of those Sears Model 50's. I consider it my "GO TO" rifle. I have taken oribi to moose to lion with it. The action length is perfect for '06 length Mags and just works all the time every time.

Mine has a Lilja 24" barrel and a Rimrock stock. The whole rig comes in a about 8 pounds and with the 200 NP at 2960fps I'm ready to rock for anything less than Cape buffalo.

Regards,

Mark

The magnum's main advantage is found in the conventional bullets of yesteryear that required heavier weight and higher velocity to obtain the penetration. Not only did we buy mangnums, we bought hyper magnums as well under the impression that they killed more effectively. But, like I said, that was yesteryear and things have changed.

Enter the Barnes X and, then, the TSX. With the latter it is often the case that velocities increase and with this bullet's construction the ability to penetrate exceeds any of those old conventional bullets. Because of the lighter bullets one can use with the TSX, velocities have increased for bullets selected for the specific species. And, new powders have become available that also change the equation a bit. With the improved penetration, the higher velocity and today's powders we find that the luster of the magnum is somewhat diminished.

Enter, or re-enter, the 30-06. While always a great selection, today's 06 truly is an even more awesome round. And it delivers without too heavy a rifle, excessive (unneeded) or muzzle blast.

All these advances suggest renewed interest in standard cartridges and, IMHO, the reduced appeal and sales of many of the magnums in the 30 caliber and smaller bores.

In order of my own personal prefference, 30-06, 300 WinMag, 300 H&H.

Personally if I want more than a 30/06 or .308 I would take the .300 RUM.........most will disagree with me.

As the late Col. Townsend Whelen once said, "The 30-06 is never a mistake." I agree. With standard ammo, it is suitable for hunting of deer sized game, and if after bigger and possibly nasty stuff, there is always the Federal High Energy and Hornady Light Magnum ammo to go to.
With a .300 magnum, you have three in the magazine and one up the spout. With the 30-06, five in the magazine and one up the spout. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Paul B.

Well you guys aren't any help! You just keep making the same arguments. I like grocery store calibers even though I do handload. So that narrows it down, and if you throw in the old rule of not hunting with a crtridge that is younger than you then I am stuck again with the 30-06 or 300 winnie.

Two more cent's worth if you please...

The '06 is by far the better all around choice for a rifle in .30. It would prove to be more versitile and a greater pleasure in the long run. The mag will only give you a few more yards of the same basic thing. If more power is needed, then up the caliber to .338 or larger.

Depending, where and what you hunt might be a thing to consider.

Other than that there is a test you can perform to find out what you really want.

Take a coin and toss it in the air, before it hits the ground call "if it's (heads/tails) It'll be a ???"

When you see the result are you happy with it?

This will be a very fleeting emotion, the first one you feel (glad or sad) at the result will be what you really want ;-)

Hope that helps.

Roi

ElCaballero

My choice would be 8X68S

308 Norma mangum, 30-338 will do.

Cheers
/JOHAN

A detached view of your (rather well balanced - congratulations) collection does appear to show a gap for the sort of cartridge that could reach out across a draw and fell an elk.

From all I have read here , in the US that appears to be the preserve of a 300 or 338magnum.

Personaly I don't like em having sensitive ears and eyes (yes I have a tendancy to flinch). but then I don't have to shoot elk across draws!

PS hows that stock coming along?

With the other rifles you have, the -06 would be my choice unless you have plans to go shoot at something far far away that is big (Elk across canyons) then maybe something like a RUM would be in order. Personally the -06 stacks up just right as the 375 H&H's little brother with similar ballistics depending on what velocity/bullet you load. Besides how can you not own an -06? I have three myself

The next 30 cal I get made up is going to be a 300 H&H, which will serve as a running mate to my 375 H&H and 416 Rem. Mag. Same bolt-throw for all three, which is an advantage.

The 300 H&H is a real sleeper, because it does pretty-much duplicate 300 Win. Mag. preformance with slightly less powder, plus it feeds with incredible, effortless smoothness. With the right magazine you can get four-down, plus one in the chamber.

It's straight-forward, easy to load for, hassle-free...............

AD

Allen, I am disapointed. I was waiting for you to back my leaning toward the 300 winnie, but instead you are going to cost me money. Maybe.

1894mk2, The God of heaven above was watching out for you on that chunk of firewood. It was not dry and it warped. just recieved another stock yesterday from a different outfit. Hopefully it is going to work I want to hunt with that gun in the fall.

Here is another thought I had last night. Build a 300 winnie and then get a 280 or 270 for the lower end. Still wouldn't have an 06.

It's going to be difficult to be patriotic with that Belgian action assuming you're not Flemish.

Don't agonize over velocity per se; the only difference you should consider is if the /06 class delivers a heavy-enough bullet fast enough to expand then penetrate on the largest game you intend to shoot at the farthest range you intend to shoot it. If you are hunting very large game or taking deep-angle shots or shooting at extreme range even the magnums may not deliver but they'll get you closer.

I vote .300 Win. if you know a smith who can do the feedwork if required. You're more likely to later run across a good /06 at the shows or shops than a magnum in the midwest, I presume.

Gidday ElCaballero,

Didn't know you were a Kiwi living in the states. Wanting to be patriotic by having a 30-06 means you must be a Kiwi because every perfect thing on earth comes from New Zealand. The 30-06 is so close to perfect it has to come from here lol.

Go with the 30-06, you will have a classic round and any advantage the winnie has is mostly hypothetical.

The only people to get any real advantage from Magnums are the powder companies. For all others the advantage is pure illusion when bullet contacts flesh.

Save yourself powder and recoil the animals won't know the difference.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

NOt being from NZ but beyond that, how could have anyone said it better....

To me the question is simple... 30/06... It is so classic is almost boring... but it does the job that it was intended to do...

I have a 300 Win Mag, and it is fun to play with when you need to burn off a little testosterone....
but the difference in the field with a 300 Mag as opposed to a 30/06 with similar bullet weight....

If the shot is too close the bullet will actually blow up on the game instead of giving terminal performance... the 30/06's lesser velocities wont' usually....

The 300 Mags will provide more energy... unless you handload by only about 20% in footpounds...
As far as trajectory, sure the Mags shoot flatter, but if you take a close look at any ballistic chart... you get an extra 50 yds tops on point blank range with most bullet weights...
At the expense of a strong increase in recoil representing a decrease in shot placement for many shooters.....

So what is the mag going to give you over a 30/06? Not enough in my book....Me, I will take a 30/06 any day... sure it can be beaten in some aspects, but not by much... and it beats the Magnums in often aspects such as shootability....

Then put it in a Model 70 or Model 54 Winchester for a Rifleman's Rifle....

cheers
seafire

Seafire, how many animals have you ironed-out with the 300 Win. Mag. versus the 30-06?

Personally, I don't find you analysis to mesh with my own experiences. If the 300 Win. offers no improvement over the 30-06, why even bother with the '06? Go with a 300 Savage instead.....or maybe a 30-30!

AD

quote:

....Me, I will take a 30/06 any day... sure it can be beaten in some aspects, but not by much... and it beats the Magnums in often aspects such as shootability....

I find that amusing since I have no problems shooting tighter groups with my 300ultramags than many people can shoot with their 30-06's.Some people can't shoot well with magnum rifles,but some can't shoot well with the 30-06 either.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Seafire, how many animals have you ironed-out with the 300 Win. Mag. versus the 30-06?

Personally, I don't find you analysis to mesh with my own experiences. If the 300 Win. offers no improvement over the 30-06, why even bother with the '06? Go with a 300 Savage instead.....or maybe a 30-30!

AD

There's the Allen I was looking for! Thanks I think I'll go with the 300 winnine or H&H and the 30-06 in a factory model down the road. This way I can justify 2 rifles to myself. I have been missing my 300 win mag.

I'd be inclined to go 300 WM if I were you, from the way I look at things that would make the most sense.

MD

on a side note the notion of taking a fine old Mauser action, and putting a Ultra in it is kind of like the idea of the next time Pamela Anderson sees here plastic man thay they just work on one side.....

That is not meant to say I dislike the Ultra's I just couldn't do that to a find old Mauser....grins

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Seafire, how many animals have you ironed-out with the 300 Win. Mag. versus the 30-06?

Personally, I don't find you analysis to mesh with my own experiences. If the 300 Win. offers no improvement over the 30-06, why even bother with the '06? Go with a 300 Savage instead.....or maybe a 30-30!

AD

well Allan, my fellow Oregonian;

I have actually had several failures with the 300 Mag having had bullets evidently too hard for the game... not the calibers fault.... was factory loaded ammo...

But I have had fairly good success with the 30/06.. and some failures also... which I blamed on just pure bad luck... shot placement good, entrance and exit wounds in the right places, plenty of blood volume.... they all worked out because it was hunting in snow and the blood trail was easy to follow, but the deer ( several times) shouldn't have gone that far in my opinion...

If your experiences differ from mine... COOL... I am sure you tote a 300 Mag because you feel it give you something extra... I for myself don't....

And as far as going with a 300 Savage or a 30/30.... Well I Own 3 different 30/30s and hunt with them.. and don't feel undergunned... I just hunt within their range limits, or what I feel is there range limits....

As far as a 300 Savage, I don't own one of those... However, I do download 30/06 ammo to the MV of the 300 Savage quite often... Does that count???

And by the way, I do hunt with those loads and actually have had a 650 lb elk in Montana take a 165 grain ballistic tip with a MV of 2250 fps... I was running in a herd broadside of me at about 175 yrds.....

It went 60 yds or so after it was hit and was done for the count....The bullet destroyed both lungs, cut the esophagus in two and also destroyed the upper 1/3 the liver and the bullet was bulged under the hide on the far side....

What more would a magnum have given me???


cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

....Me, I will take a 30/06 any day... sure it can be beaten in some aspects, but not by much... and it beats the Magnums in often aspects such as shootability....

I find that amusing since I have no problems shooting tighter groups with my 300ultramags than many people can shoot with their 30-06's.Some people can't shoot well with magnum rifles,but some can't shoot well with the 30-06 either.

Stub:

Excellent point.. YOu have posted some impressive pictures of the game you have taken with your rifles.... However, sorry if this steps on your belief in your magnum.. but We all can tell you are a good shoot.... I am sure you could have dropped the same animals with a 30/06 any day..

The UltraMag didn't make or break your end results....

I have more faith in the shooter over the rounds... the shooter has to put them in the right spot.. and I still submit... YOU are a better shooter with your Ultra Mag than a lot of shooters are with a 243.....

Once again, it is the shooter and shot placement not the round.. and the bigger the case, the less the "average" Joe Schmoe can put the bullet in the right place....

I think 10% of all magnum owners can actually take advantage of the 'extra" that a magnum offers... If you are in that 10% smile and go hunting...

But tons of elk were falling to 30/40 Krags and even 250 Savages and 257 Roberts long before there were such a thing as a Magnum ( well maybe the 375, but not many people used those things based on cost alone)....

I personally don't see the need for a magnum until you get to the 375 H & H.....Just the way I see it!


cheers
seafire

quote:

I am sure you could have dropped the same animals with a 30/06 any day..

The UltraMag didn't make or break your end results....

Nobody knows that for sure but I can tell you that I have much more confidence taking 400 yard shots at elk with the 300ultramag than I would with a 30-06.The flatter trajectory and decreased wind drift make shot placement easier and the extra energy delivered does increase the damage delivered to the animals vitals.What I can tell you for sure is that the ultramag certainly was in no way a handicap.

My thoughts on this is that all rounds (for the most part) are equal to 300 yds.

My point being that past 300 is where the mags are gonna give you an edge over the standard rounds.

Just my thoughts.

To 300 yds give me a 06 no problem but in the open country I hunt I'll take a big 30 or my 340 each and every day. But then again that is just me and my world.

MD

Sea-I certainly concur with your 10% rule, I believe that for the most part people are capable to 300 and that is it. Their equipment is much more capable than they are. Too bad people can't be disciplined enough to stay within their abilities...eh

MD