Wow, lots of opinions here so I will toss mine in after I establish a few things.

1. I hated Clinton. The guy showed an incredible lack of judgement for having sex with a 19 yr old and expecting her to keep quiet.
2. I have never voted Democrat.
3. I agree with RWJ; Bush could have volunteered and did not. He avoided service but has absolutely no issues with sending soldiers to die in Iraq. This I find revolting.
4. I said long ago the whole Iraq mess was a no-win situation - if Saddam has WMD, he will use them. If he doesn't, we were wrong. You just can't go invading a country without some damn good justification. We should have focused on Al-Queda, Pakistan, and Afganistan, and made it clear that we would invade any other country that supported terrorism.
5. If the Democrats had a gun rights guy on the ticket, they would get my vote this year.
6. I don't know what I will do. I am a lifetime member of the NRA, but I also served, and seeing all those kids die is making me a little ill. My gun rights are important, but so are the lives of these young people.
7. Bush clearly screwed up here, but I have no confidence that Kerry can fix it.
8. My spouse and I travel all over the world for both work and pleasure. Many say screw the rest of the world, but believe me, it is a global economy out there. We can't have a foreign policy that basically tells all others to go screw themselves. It is easy to say damn the rest of the world, but those who say it, in my opionion, usually have never even left the US. Ever.

Dan:

Don't worry, I am not leaning toward Kerry, but I wish there was some way to get Bush out and someone like Colin Powell in. Powell would have never gotten us in this mess. Funny isn't it, that the only guy in the administration with just about ANY military experience is Powell, and yet the academic thinkheads such as Paul Wolfowitz rule the day when it comes to foriegn policy.

I feel as if Bush should be held accountable for what are clearly blunders, but the problem is that the only alternative is to vote for Kerry, which is obviously not a good idea.

You know, I do hope a year from now I eat my words. I hope things in Iraq come out okay, that the US is no longer viewed as a hostile nation (fueling even more radicals to take up the cause against us), and we can all get back to focusing on hunting, shooting, and living.

AZ, uh...I feel a case of blah blah blah coming on here, and I have been to distant lands, met strange exotic people... you know the rest right? I don't embrace global ecomomies, globalization, immigration or the Dimocratic Party either. I don't think we should have our troops in other countries either but that's just me... Diversity is just another form of social suicide when it is promoted as an end, and welfare the poison that keeps its recipients in bondage. Kerry is a dick, lawyers exist because we have laws, and those who cannot understand them...probably because they were written by lawyers. So which came first, the law or the lawyer? Draft evasion became a non issue when Carter pardoned the Viet Nam era draft dodgers in Canada, so Clinton's military service( ) is no more or less relevant than W's. It seems odd that Bush is criticized for his service in the Guard, as if it was somehow an illicit way to avoid service. Today it is the Guard and Reserve forces that carry much of the load. Why is Willy slick for avoiding service while holding his breath, and Georgie bad for joining the Guard? I don't get it.

So, did I mention that Kerry is a POS? Do I wonder why his admissions were not investigated, or why Jane was not prosecuted for her treason? Now and then.

Sometimes I think the whole friggin' system is out of control and goin' off the tracks. I used to say I hoped it happened after my time, but having a more acute sense of humor these days, I rather hope we just get on with it now. Our country's crapper is full, and it needs to be flushed.

Blue, you seem like a fairly reasonable fellow but your profession is mired in an awful stench of self servitude an self adulation. I've known many lawyers as acquaintances, and have used the services of others mostly for real estate closing and such, because the banks seem to like that kind of shit. I haven't been arrested, don't habitually sue or get sued. I drive cars that are designed by your profession, my actions on the highway are regulated by your profession, and your buddies use their collective convoluted logic to tax my property on an annual basis so that they may piss away our collective tax dollars on unwanted, undesirable, and unnecessary projects. All at the pain of foreclosure if I decide I don't want to contribute. Spare me the short take on why I should be grateful for the profession. I sincerely embrace W. Shakespear's thoughts on the subject, you folks are guilty as charged IMO. No appeal in the court of public opinion, Sorry.

Oh, BTW, Kerry is without redemptive merit on any level, in case I wasn't clear earlier. My abject apologies to all for contributing to political debate in an otherwise honorable forum.

Dan

Pres., TYHC

www.NotUpFor.ElectionThisYear

Interboat:

Go back and read Jorge's post - he is the guy referencing FDR and Lincoln.

mike416Rigby: That is good to hear! It is good to hear that you are not unhappy and bitter and it is even better to know your heart is in the right place. Political beliefs is not the first or best measure of anyone, but their actions (your actions) speak volumes and your actions with the VFW speaks volumes about you, all good.

Having ridden over a good portion of Mo, Wyoming, etc, chasing after cattle at home, it is offensive to be grouped with Kerry and Co. as a cowboy. As a matter of fact I'd like to see Mr Kerry on a horse as that creates a rather bizarre looking photo op in my mind, hell put a hat on top of that long face and I'd bet he looks right at home- just kidding there. He'd look just as out of place as he does with that shotgun in his hands.

Blue

God forbid that anyone actually has a scar! that hot coffee is more dangerous than I previously thought. I've also obviously passed up millions of dollars in lawsuits I could have received. Oh, hell it's Saturday afternoon and I'm still at work, that's the wrong idea to have obviously when I could sue. Most of my scars, and I have a lot, I thought they were accidents or the result of my own stupidity, not someone else's fault. What am I doing at work when I can sue someone and take it easy. As a matter of fact I have a hell of a scar from jumping off a gate, catching a spur in a piece of wire, falling face down on a rock. I thought it was me being clumsy, but now I realize it should have had a protective shield around the rowel to prevent this. Does anyone know if there's a statute of limitations on torts? I'd better go call a lawyer now.

Jorge:



Naval Aviator, huh? Annapolis perhaps? I went to West Point, known for producing nothing but liberal thinkers.



There is a huge difference between FDR and Bush. FDR could not serve. Bush could, and he chose not to. Look, if you love George, wonderful. I am glad I am not serving for him. I thought his father was a much better president.



You know, on second thought, maybe it is a good thing Bush didn't serve, because he would have lost his commission when he got that DUI at age 30. Think about the amount of responsibility you had, or will have at age 30, and consider what this guy was doing at that age.



Lincoln, as a lawyer, successfully defended a man who killed another man. Do you think he would stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning today? Hell many here would dismiss him just because he is a lawyer.



You forgot to include North Korea in your list.



Funny, I heard that computer came from Pakistan. Maybe I am mistaken.



I will be in Indonesia next week and I will let you know if they need to be added to the list of those to be invaded - they are, after all, on the "Do Not Travel" list.



Beat Navy. And thanks for serving.

AnotherAZWriter constantly references the two most destructive presidents we have had: FDR, America's communist-on-wheels; and Lincoln, the president (back when Republicans were like today's Democrats) that destroyed the Constitution.

AZ: Beat Army. I don't "love" Bush, I don't like his entitlements ( Medicare) and his overall domestic spending, his immigration policies and he is on record being in favor of the Assault Weapons ban. Back when Bush was a Lt, hell when I was a LT, getting a DUI was no big deal.

You are right about the computer, BUT my statement IS accurate, the names of those two gomers came from some terrorist's contact book in Iraq. I dislike Bush senior more than his son. He was also too "progressive" for me. He let the democrats sucker him into a tax hike that brought about his eventual downfall ( thanks to that IDIOT Perot that enabled Clinton to be elected with 43% of the vote) and he didn't finish what he started.

I purposely left the North Koreans out of my first post and I'll tell you why; the CHICOMS will not let the gooks do anything stupid like invade South Korea or start launching nukes. They have waaay too much invested in good ol' fashioned capitalism in the West to let their fellow slopies do anything rash. Listen, Bush is far from perfect, but Kerry is nothing but a closet socialist, with a socialist AND a foreigner for a wife ( shades of the "real" Manchurian Candidate come to mind) a TRAITOR for what he did upon his return from Vietnam, who voted to raise taxes every time he got the chance, voted against every weapon system that came down the pike in his tenure as Senator and look at it this way; The FRENCH LIKE him. Isn't that enough? BEAT ARMY. jorge

Hey Jorge:

If you guys who serve want Bush, fine; I never said I would will vote for Kerry, I just want a way to punish Bush. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of options. I sure don't want a gun grabber in the White House, but I don't want to put my interests above those who are have a lot more on the line.

When I was in the Army, one DUI ended your career as an officer. An NCO got two unless he was a senior NCO.

There is nothing about Kerry that will enrich my life.

Beat Navy.

Tough choices indeed. To quote Louis Black, "I can't decide which party represents the part of America that I hate the most."

I think Bush is beer drinker, and that worries me. But Cheney and Rumsfeldt probably take their bourbon straight, and that makes up for it. The important thing is that Bush walks like he has cast iron balls, and sometimes that is enough. I'm sure Kerry has a pair as well, he just doesn't know which side of his pants they are hanging on.

In fact, there is something about Kerry that scares me, but I can't put my finger on it. His entire life, including military service, is just a little too well scripted. It's like watching the next installment of the Omen series. Edwards doesn't make it any better. If anyone has three 6's hidden on their head, the odds are pretty high that it will be a personal injury lawyer.

I digress. This is a firearms forum and therein lies our interest. Kerry probably still likes playing with guns, but the Democratic Party insists that he be in bed with Schumer, Fienstein and Kennedy. Bush is from Texas, and that is good. I'm sure that someone in his family has a pickup truck with a "God, Guns and Guts" bumper sticker on it.

Vote your mind, your heart, or both. But by all means vote. Too many Americans have risked their lives to give others the same opportunity. I just hope that I never have to describe my bolt actions as being either pre-ban or post-ban.



Q: Why does California have the most lawyers, and New Jersey have the most toxic waste sites?

A: New Jersey got first choice!

Jorge,
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to research the facts and post them. It is very nice to get factual information from a 3rd party. In this pre-election period most of what one reads in the news is written by those who want to push you one way or another in your viewpoint. It is always nice to have the facts and form your own opinion.

"If anyone has three 6's hidden on their head, the odds are pretty high that it will be a personal injury lawyer."

You sure as hell got that right, Kurt!

hey Jorge:

I flew today from Phoenix to Seattle. I arrived at the gate and saw a bunch of soldiers waiting to board. I asked them if they were deploying, and they said they were coming home from Iraq. I said, "Who wants to fly first class?"

A woman said, "I do."

We traded boarded passes and she took my seat in first class. It was a good feeling.

As I deplaned (now in the back), the captain and FO thanked me, as did all the flight attendants.

I highly encourage anyone who can to give up a first class seat for the troops.

If you folks think that Honest Abe didn't do a little military service, I suspect you never read any of his biographies. He never saw "action", but he served as a captain and chased Indians across what is now Iowa. Command of a couple of hundred men while trying to catch up with the ememy IS military service in my small mind. Also, remember Ike never fired a shot at anyone in anger... and he did fairly well in WWII.



A short note on Abe's service



And...



As any single-seat fighter pilot says.. Everytime you kick the tire and light the fire for you country, you're playing "you bet your ass." Just like Kerry did in Cambodia, I guess??? What crap... the s.o.b. probably invented the internet, too.



If anyone is at one bit in doubt of what I think about John Kerry and his service in Vietnam.... I will clear that up...



John Kerry is a lying P.O.S. If you don't agree, just write the DNC and ask why he won't release his military records. 'Nuff said.







Semper Fi...

Good work AZWriter: I knew you were a good man. Many folks here attack veterans, but you don't.

Lawyer-bashing is a real eye-roller to me. Lawyers don't render verdicts, folks, juries and judges do. Real-life property-owning, tax-paying people sitting on juries and electing judges. For every lawyer out there trying to convince the jury of big damages there's one trying to dissuade it. A lot of lawyers do both.



So let the blame rest with the guilty people. It's the citizens. And it's every working American that's feigned partiality or prejudice or otherwise ducked his duty to sit on a jury to avoid missing work, leaving the court with the bored and gullible to choose from.



If you won't differentiate between a few greedy lawyers and the bulk of those in the profession then why complain about the public failing to differentiate the bulk of hunters, who are ethical, from slob-hunters? To do so is logically inconsistent.



Lawyers have a bad rep but they are sure as hell held to a higher ethical and disciplinary standard than doctors in this state. A doctor has to commit felonies to get censured by his professional review. For the sake of better healthcare in the absence of effective quality controls, if a doctor is negligent I'm damn glad there's a lawyer there to take him to the mat for the victim, even if there is great financial incentive to do it. I don't care what it does to malpractice insurance costs if it gets justice for the victim. Sometimes justice and the system that provides it is expensive.



(BTW, McDonalds had been settling coffee claims repeatedly but declining to serve it cooler. The "evil" lawyer simply convinced the jury to send a message to McDonalds that buying-off injuries had to stop. Here in GA the state gets 75% of punitive damages to defray judicial system costs.)



There probably wouldn't even be seatbelts or airbags in automobiles if not for the negative incentive of tort litigation and those devices have without question saved thousands from serious injury and death. And that is just one consumer safety issue out of thousands.



Tort reform will just give manufacturers a way of calculating the price of human lives so they can crunch the numbers to see if it's worth making their product safer. What is needed, if anything, is legislation stating clear principles of consumer responsibilty; not a financial incentive for companies to continue to distribute products with safety defects.



No, I'm not a lawyer or have been injured by a doctor; just a "entering a plea" for rational thought...

Well, TR summed it up best for me:

"The old parties are husks, with no real soul within either, divided on artificial lines, boss-ridden and privilege-controlled, each a jumble of incongruous elements, and neither daring to speak out wisely and fearlessly on what should be said on the vital issues of the day."
-- Theodore Roosevelt
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1658

-Bob F.