After reading Larry's latest hunt report I thought that I would share some photos that I took of some of the other animals the island has to offer. I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgivng. Hope you enjoy.

Tyler

Any Bison tags?

They issue a couple bison tags each year. Pretty simple hunt when compared to Utah's Henry Mountains bison hunts.

My impression of the bison is that it would be an EXTREMELY easy hunt.

Taking any animal in that Park/island can't be too awful tough seeing as how both the deer auction tag and regular public tag were filled in one day according to the locals that I know out there. The sheep hunts appear to be a little tougher, but all the hunts on that island/Park are pretty much a guaranteed thing if you can walk and see. One guy I know that lives near there is a paraplegic and takes more great animal photos out there every year than you can shake a stick at---just sayin!!! Most people out there feel there shouldn't be any hunting on the island, but SFW convinced the DWR several years ago to make those tags available to make some much needed money to help support the place.

I can't speak for the other species but the sheep hunt was not a walk in the park.
We hoofed it HARD all day. I had to make a shot far longer than I would hAve preferred. The sheep were wild .


The sheep were wild. The video shows them all taking off at high speed even though my shot was taken from 527 yards .

At mid day on the first day, I was concerned about taking a ram.

But the rams are there. You can walk your tail off up and down mountains in the most inhospitable weather for ten days straight in the wild Rockies and there may be no rams.

28000 acres is a lot of land. You can walk a very long way and see nothing.

Where the heck else are you going to go on a guided hunt and shoot a sheep like you shot there in ONE day---answer is nowhere! Those sheep are in one area of the Park and the guides that you go with know pretty much where they are and they aren't all over that Park! They may be fair chase and wild by B&C definition, but everyone that knows sheep there knows where to go to get into them, unlike other big areas like the other member mentioned. Hells bells, both mulies that were shot this year were both photoed over several years by the paraplegic guy I mentioned, they both had names and people had their sheds. Yea, that island is one tough SOB, LOL!!!

Uh oh...here we go! In my opinion, this is really not too different (though we are talking 45 square miles here) than any other "super premium" sheep hunt out there that might be sold at auction. If you buy an auctioned sheep hunt in Kluane, for instance, (8000+ square miles on the total park) I strongly suspect that even there the deal would be closed in a day or two and you would very likely shoot a whopper. If it took longer, it would really just be a matter of time just like above as people KNOW the rams are there and where they live. Neither are going to be difficult. That said, I would rather take sheep across the highway for 1/10 the price and Bison on the Henries. A general proof of the perceived hierarchy on the Antelope Island hunts can actually be found in the number of people with between 10 and 17 bonus points for Bison there vs. the Henries "hunter choice" hunt. The latter, just like sheep hunts elsewhere, are generally more preferred. NOT taking anything away from the members Antelope Island hunt though...it's just different and not what everyone wants! NOTHING...zero...zip... not a damn thing wrong with that! Great ram and thank you for your support of Antelope Island habitat and wildlife management!



http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunti...ame/pdf/12_bison.pdf

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tendrams:
Uh oh...here we go! In my opinion, this is really not too different (though we are talking 45 square miles here) than any other "super premium" sheep hunt out there that might be sold at auction. If you buy an auctioned sheep hunt in Kluane, for instance, (8000+ square miles on the total park) I strongly suspect that even there the deal would be closed in a day or two and you would very likely shoot a whopper. If it took longer, it would really just be a matter of time just like above as people KNOW the rams are there and where they live. Neither are going to be difficult. That said, I would rather take sheep across the highway for 1/10 the price and Bison on the Henries. A general proof of the perceived hierarchy on the Antelope Island hunts can actually be found in the number of people with between 10 and 17 bonus points for Bison there vs. the Henries "hunter choice" hunt. The latter, just like sheep hunts elsewhere, are generally more preferred. NOT taking anything away from the members Antelope Island hunt though...it's just different and not what everyone wants! NOTHING wrong with that!

***I agree with that 100%. I just don't like to see photos of animals taken on hunts like that or those year long auction tags and it made out to be like it was a real tough hunting expedition. Mulie bucks are being easily taken on winter range where everyone is also photographing them because they are pretty visible. They made it through the general and LE hunting seasons only to get wacked by a high paying auction winner guided by an outfitter with umpteen spotters! My guess is that 90% of true hunters out there, including those in Utah where all these auction tags sold by the SFW is rampant, probably feel that way. And please don't tell me that all that money goes for good causes, as a lot of it is going down the drain and not even accounted for, but that is another entirely different argument for not selling hundreds of them.

Well, when it comes to money usage in either America or Africa...my theory is that an inefficiently used $50,000 is always better for wildlife than an efficiently used $5000. Would I like to see the $50K used rationally and DIRECTLY on the species and specific habitat in question? Of course, but that is not always the world we live in.

Back to sheep and bison, I also think that a guys preferences can change over time in regards to where and how to hunt. Just as an example (not specifically related to Larry's hunt) I am 42 and currently have ten points toward bison in Utah which means I could likely draw a Henry Mtn. cow hunt THIS year while it will take probably another ten years (or more) to have a DECENT shot at a Henry bull. Conversely, by the time I might actually DRAW that Henry bull, the hunt might just not be workable for me at 60 or 65. I might turn my nose up today, but I can imagine (even in four of five years) just shifting to the Henries cow or even an Antelope Island bull hunt as being a pretty practical option. After that, I am then free to pick another OIL species to focus on and consider my last "big hunt"...if I am lucky. Nobody is getting any younger and no one gets out of here alive after all! Similarly, if I NEEDED a final sheep to complete the slam or if I wanted to move on to concentrate on another sheep species as I got older and the Antelope Island tag came up (assuming I was 55+ with a pocket full of cash) I think it is a no-brainer to go forward. People pay a lot more for sometimes a good bit less in the hunting world.

I'm 66, been hunting since I was five, and was just out on a 3 month five state hunt. I'm not rich by any means and only had two cheap antelope doe tags and a buck tag for where I hunt every year in Wyoming. I helped a buddy from Wyoming take a Cali Bighorn Sheep in Oregon and do an archery elk hunt before and after that hunt in Nevada. We crapped out on the elk hunt although we were into animals every day, but with archery equipment it certainly was tough working close enough for a shot in those steep mountains. I then had a month in Wyoming and helped friends take two bulls (5x5 and a 6x7) and two cow elk, a 15 1/2 inch antelope and filled my two doe tags, all DIY on public ground. We didn't see but two mulies that interested us and couldn't get close enough for a good percentage shot at either one. Then I helped my buddy take a mulie buck on his draw tag in unit 2b in New Mexico in the early November season before finishing the trip with a week of pheasant hunting over my DD pointer in North Dakota. I spent roughly $2K on gas, food, and licenses on that trip and I can guarantee that it was a lot more exciting and fulfilling than going out to an island and wacking a sheep on a guided hunt where the animals are known to be behind an outfitter and all his paid spotters! "Hunts" like we're talking about may bring in some big money, but in most hunter's opinions it sure as heck isn't helping our stature with the nonhunting public when they see animals taken out on the winter range or on an island where they're photographing animals that have been given a name because they are so easy to see! Finally, I would have to disagree with you in that if I needed a sheep to complete a Grand Slam or something similar I would not complete that slam if I had to resort to going to an island or on a basically guaranteed hunt like we're talking about. To each his own, but most of these so-called free chase auction type hunts suck big time IMHO and many others!!! If these high rollers are so conservation-minded, why not just donate their money to a cause of their choosing and forget the "hunt" that they're buying?

Damned nice Ram Larry. One I'd be proud to claim, both from it's standpoint of being a superb trophy specimen, as well as the financial good you did on both this hunt with the auction tag, and the many other generous contributions you've made to conservation; a certain distractor here who has a reputation for sour grapes notwithstanding!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Damned nice Ram Larry. One I'd be proud to claim, both from it's standpoint of being a superb trophy specimen, as well as the financial good you did on both this hunt with the auction tag, and the many other generous contributions you've made to conservation; a certain distractor here who has a reputation for sour grapes notwithstanding!

***Nobody said the ram wasn't a nice one and nobody said Mr. Shores hasn't made other "contributions" to conservation. I'm saying what thousands of others throughout the country are saying on hunting websites and/or thinking and that is that those type of "hunts" are doing more harm than the money they generate and might be as detrimental to our cause as actual "canned" hunts in small enclosures! Why don't these conservationists like Mr. Shores and Mr. Austad just donate that tag fee they won during the bidding process and not go on the hunt if they are so "conservation minded"? IMHO, and many others out there, the "hunts" they are paying for are a far cry from an actual bonafide free chase hunt. If it weren't for Mossback and several others of that type that hire out spotters for big money and then guide the "hunter" to a sure thing, their names and pictures wouldn't be plastered on the internet with big grins on their face like they have really accomplished taking a tough to get trophy. Reputation for sour grapes my ass!!! I tell it like I and many thousands see this type of tag for what it really is! Also, most of us that are against these types of tags and "hunts" hear people saying the only reason we are is is that we're jealous. To that comment and thinking I say Bullshit!!! Hunting is hunting and when it comes down to taking game on the winter range when all seasons are closed and the animal is at it's most vulnerable time of the year or on an island where each animal is known by name is killing and not much in the way of hunting! Frame was the name of the one big mulie taken on the island this year and I can't recall the name of the other one, but that is pretty pathetic to pay and shoot any animal that has been named by all of it's watchers and photographers. Most people are against hunting on AI and if it weren't for the SFW and Don Peay having so much influence with the Utah DWR there would be no "trophies" taken from it. Sorry, but that's the predominant attitude out in the public and hunting sector and if you don't like that point of view then tough shit!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Damned nice Ram Larry. One I'd be proud to claim, both from it's standpoint of being a superb trophy specimen, as well as the financial good you did on both this hunt with the auction tag, and the many other generous contributions you've made to conservation; a certain distractor here who has a reputation for sour grapes notwithstanding!

Why don't these conservationists like Mr. Shores and Mr. Austad just donate that tag fee they won during the bidding process and not go on the hunt if they are so "conservation minded"?

Did you really just ask that question? Really?

May I ask what your PETA or HSUS membership number is?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Damned nice Ram Larry. One I'd be proud to claim, both from it's standpoint of being a superb trophy specimen, as well as the financial good you did on both this hunt with the auction tag, and the many other generous contributions you've made to conservation; a certain distractor here who has a reputation for sour grapes notwithstanding!

Why don't these conservationists like Mr. Shores and Mr. Austad just donate that tag fee they won during the bidding process and not go on the hunt if they are so "conservation minded"?

Did you really just ask that question? Really?

May I ask what your PETA or HSUS membership number is?

***Now you are just posting to be a complete asshole!!! You don't have to be a member of any of those asswipe organizations to make a post like I did. You may be in the vast minority on this type of tag and not realize it! There is already a groundswell in Utah to put the SFW/BGF operation in it's place in another year when the tags come back up for bid and word is out that just maybe these tags will be drastically cut in numbers and the Don Peay machine derailed. When they tried to go into Arizona a year ago and secretly get this same type of system going hunters from throughout the country got together with their AZ brethren and put a quick stop to it and that just may be the start to end the numerous tags that Utah gives out to high rollers in deference to the common folk who are really paying the freight. It's a well known fact that Utah has more of these tags than all the other western states combined and numerous hunters in Utah appear ready to attempt to put a stop to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Did you really just ask that question? Really?

May I ask what your PETA or HSUS membership number is?

BINGO! I heard the same argument from anti-hunters discussing the DSC Black Rhino hunt AND the Melissa Bachman lion hunt. All too familiar...but particularly annoying when it comes from inside our fraternity.

WOW! I didn't think that postin 4 pictures of buffalo and speed goats would get some pissed off. I've spent my whole life living in the shadow of the island. We go out there multiple times a year and look at the wildlife as a family. To this day I've never seen a sheep from the road. I've seen multiple big bucks but more die every year from coyotes and fighting during the rut than from hunters. I've got no problem with the hunts, he'll I'm hoping to draw the lottery sheep tag one of these years.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Damned nice Ram Larry. One I'd be proud to claim, both from it's standpoint of being a superb trophy specimen, as well as the financial good you did on both this hunt with the auction tag, and the many other generous contributions you've made to conservation; a certain distractor here who has a reputation for sour grapes notwithstanding!

Why don't these conservationists like Mr. Shores and Mr. Austad just donate that tag fee they won during the bidding process and not go on the hunt if they are so "conservation minded"?

Did you really just ask that question? Really?

May I ask what your PETA or HSUS membership number is?

***Now you are just posting to be a complete asshole!!! You don't have to be a member of any of those asswipe organizations to make a post like I did. You may be in the vast minority on this type of tag and not realize it! There is already a groundswell in Utah to put the SFW/BGF operation in it's place in another year when the tags come back up for bid and word is out that just maybe these tags will be drastically cut in numbers and the Don Peay machine derailed. When they tried to go into Arizona a year ago and secretly get this same type of system going hunters from throughout the country got together with their AZ brethren and put a quick stop to it and that just may be the start to end the numerous tags that Utah gives out to high rollers in deference to the common folk who are really paying the freight. It's a well known fact that Utah has more of these tags than all the other western states combined and most hutners are to the point where they may just attempt to put a stop to it.

Well, as we've been down this road before Topgun, it was expected. For some reason, you simply have a problem with carrying on a debate without resorting to personal insults when the argument goes against your position. A true sign of loosing the debate! The outcome is likewise predictable anytime the issue of another hunter having and spending significant money is discussed. Your history of posts on AR strongly support the "sour grapes" comment.

Actually, I'm simply highlighting the fact that your position on that particular point is identical to the arguments of the antis. They also ask "why not just put up the money for conservation without hunting and killing an animal?". The fact is however, the "photographic safari" group just doesn't put up the funds that hunters do. All of the arguments they make that seem logical on the surface and make for a good 10 second sound bite ("How can you claim you support wildlife by killing wildlife?") not withstanding, the financing of conservation still comes from hunters; hunters who expect an opportunity to "harvest" something in return.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Did you really just ask that question? Really?

May I ask what your PETA or HSUS membership number is?

I heard the same argument from anti-hunters discussing the DSC Black Rhino hunt AND the Melissa Bachman lion hunt. All too familiar...but particularly annoying when it comes from inside our fraternity.

Yep, a perfect example of the point I was making. Especially at this particular time with the heightened public exposure of Melissa's hunt. You made a spot on comment a few days ago on the very subject when you asked "Do you want this sheep, or all sheep"! "Sheep" used only for relevance to the specific discussion.



BTW, nice pics of the animals on the island! I enjoyed them.

It's just too GD bad that you're "annoyed" because someone has a different opinion of these so-called hunts than you do and if I hear one more comment by yourself about my "history" I think I'll puke!!! Every time there is a disagreement with you on a thread on any particular subject you come back with this horseshit about sour grapes and other comments about myself, rather than staying on target with what is being discussed. Your last post was exactly that and why I made the asshole comment. The GD island we are talking about is thought of by most people out there in Utah that visit it as a zoo, although it is essentially a big State Park. Why is it so hard for you to not be able to digest that it is a far cry from actual hunting when most of the animals, other than possibly the sheep, are named and being photograped by numerous people, including hunters, throughout the year? Why can't hunters donate money for those tags without going out and killing an animal with a name on an afternoon jaunt? If a GD paraplegic can go out and easily photograph the animals that these tags are being used on and in most cases killed in one easy day, why can't you see that it may be more detrimental to us than all the money those tags are taking in? It would appear that you are like a number of people in this world that only care that if the money is there that it justifies any means to use it for so-called betterment of a species. Sir, you don't have to hunt and kill things every time and try to justify it by saying that hunters are conservationists, which we all know is a fact. That's too damn bad because that's not what hunting is all about and my three month trip pretty much confirmed that you don't have to spend a jillion bucks and shoot animals with names on an island to enjoy the outdoors and what God created for us to enjoy without killing something every time out! If that makes me your enemy, then so be it!

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
WOW! I didn't think that postin 4 pictures of buffalo and speed goats would get some pissed off. I've spent my whole life living in the shadow of the island. We go out there multiple times a year and look at the wildlife as a family. To this day I've never seen a sheep from the road. I've seen multiple big bucks but more die every year from coyotes and fighting during the rut than from hunters. I've got no problem with the hunts, he'll I'm hoping to draw the lottery sheep tag one of these years.

Thank you. You won't see a single sheep from the road based upon what I saw .

This didn't seem a sure thing when I was hoofing my 58 year old rear end up that mountain at something over 6,000 feet when my cameraman (23 years younger than me and , at least according to him, very much in shape) struggled to make it.

I could have gone to Mexico for less money and shot a bigger sheep. Yet, I chose to purchase the AI tag.

These sheep were wilder than hell, I can assure you. If you think you are going to drive in a car get out and shoot them, you are wrong , way wrong.

As for the other animals on the island, I tend to agree. It might not be that hard. One can certainly see plenty of trophy bucks and bulls from the road.

Damn nice pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
It's just too GD bad that you're "annoyed" because someone has a different opinion of these so-called hunts than you do and if I hear one more comment by yourself about my "history" I think I'll puke!!! Every time there is a disagreement with you on a thread on any particular subject you come back with this horseshit about sour grapes and other comments about myself, rather than staying on target with what is being discussed. Your last post was exactly that and why I made the asshole comment. The GD island we are talking about is thought of by most people out there in Utah that visit it as a zoo, although it is essentially a big State Park. Why is it so hard for you to not be able to digest that it is a far cry from actual hunting when most of the animals, other than possibly the sheep, are named and being photograped by numerous people, including hunters, throughout the year? Why can't hunters donate money for those tags without going out and killing an animal with a name on an afternoon jaunt? If a GD paraplegic can go out and easily photograph the animals that these tags are being used on and in most cases killed in one easy day, why can't you see that it may be more detrimental to us than all the money those tags are taking in? It would appear that you are like a number of people in this world that only care that if the money is there that it justifies any means to use it for so-called betterment of a species. Sir, you don't have to hunt and kill things every time and try to justify it by saying that hunters are conservationists, which we all know is a fact. That's too damn bad because that's not what hunting is all about and my three month trip pretty much confirmed that you don't have to spend a jillion bucks and shoot animals with names on an island to enjoy the outdoors and what God created for us to enjoy without killing something every time out! If that makes me your enemy, then so be it! killing it!!!

Ummm ... Yyyeeeaaahhh!

Anyway, like I said, great ram Larry! See you at DSC pardner! I'll make the first bid on the Black Rhino! The FIRST BID! Only because I know I'll be OUT after the second bid!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
WOW! I didn't think that postin 4 pictures of buffalo and speed goats would get some pissed off. I've spent my whole life living in the shadow of the island. We go out there multiple times a year and look at the wildlife as a family. To this day I've never seen a sheep from the road. I've seen multiple big bucks but more die every year from coyotes and fighting during the rut than from hunters. I've got no problem with the hunts, he'll I'm hoping to draw the lottery sheep tag one of these years.

Thank you. You won't see a single sheep from the road based upon what I saw .

This didn't seem a sure thing when I was hoofing my 58 year old rear end up that mountain at something over 6,000 feet when my cameraman (23 years younger than me and , at least according to him, very much in shape) struggled to make it.

I could have gone to Mexico for less money and shot a bigger sheep. Yet, I chose to purchase the AI tag.

These sheep were wilder than hell, I can assure you. If you think you are going to drive in a car get out and shoot them, you are wrong , way wrong.

As for the other animals on the island, I tend to agree. It might not be that hard. One can certainly see plenty of trophy bucks and bulls from the road.

Damn nice pictures.

***Mr.Shores, I'm not saying that your sheep hunt was a walk in the park, although that IS actually what it was even though it was at 8,000' in elevation! The sheep are there and it is well known where they are in that one mountain range. Anyone that could make the trek up the mountain following a guide who has them pegged from previous trips, and shoot a rifle proficiently would have been able to take the sheep you took. That to many people is not hunting in it's true sense like the hunts I was on this year. What I'm trying to get across is what you seem to agree with in regards to the other animals on the island that have names and are being photographed on a daily basis by even badly disabled people. People are naturally going to think that taking a sheep on the island is about the same thing and as easy as it was for Denny to take that 200"+ mulie even if it isn't. I don't know you from Adam, but I assume you are of well means from what others are saying and from your buying more than this one auction tag over the years. That's great and if it lights your fire like it appears to do for Denny, who also buys a bunch of those high-priced "hunts", and put your pictures up on the internet with your "trophies" so be it. Just please know that a lot of people, including many hunters and conservationists like myself, do not agree with these high-priced auction tags! That's as polite and direct as I can be on this matter. I see Todd Williams came back again with another stupid post with nothing meaningful in it to contradict what I stated! Anyway, I hope you and yours and everyone else on the site are having a great holiday weekend!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Where the heck else are you going to go on a guided hunt and shoot a sheep like you shot there in ONE day---answer is nowhere!

First desert bighorn hunt I ever guided was over at 10am on the first day and we killed a 180"+ ram. To this day it's the best ram we've killed in Mexico. It happens

Let's take a look at what the auction on Antelope Island has gotten just for mule deer...

265,000 in 2011
160,000 in 2012
310,000 in 2013

Do the math, that's $735,000 raised, 90% of which go towards "on the ground" improvements for wildlife on the island. That's $661,500 to benefit wildlife as a whole for 3 deer. To me, that is impressive! None of that money goes towards infrastructure of the park, it's strictly benefits the wildlife.

Sheep were introduced to the island in the late 1990's and the primary reason why, from what I've been told, was to create a nursery herd. It was a good location due to the lack of predators. These sheep are used to not only strengthen other herds of sheep across North America but to actually re-introduce sheep into certain areas. The sheep on Antelope Island have been used as a nursery herd for 2 ranges in Utah that I know of, the Stansbury Range as well as the Newfoundland Range. My good friend bought the auction tag on the Newfoundland Range last year. The general public may have not had sheep to hunt or view and photograph had it not been for the Antelope Island herd and men like Larry that are willing to spend more money there to kill a potentially lesser ram. There was a damn big ram killed on the Newfoundland Range just this year.

It bothers me when I see arguments like the one that Topgun is trying to make, that it's becoming a rich mans sport and they then go on to say it's not a "jealousy" issue. How bout instead of demonizing the men that buy these tags we just say thanks due to the amount of money they raise to enhance OUR wildlife and OUR opportunity. Remember, this money is not coming from our license fees and/or tax dollars. If you want to be mad at somebody be mad at poachers because they steal from us and don't give back a thing!

The issue I have had is how some of these hunts are conducted, not with the program itself but that's another argument for another time

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Where the heck else are you going to go on a guided hunt and shoot a sheep like you shot there in ONE day---answer is nowhere!

First desert bighorn hunt I ever guided was over at 10am on the first day and we killed a 180"+ ram. To this day it's the best ram we've killed in Mexico. It happens

Let's take a look at what the auction on Antelope Island has gotten just for mule deer...

265,000 in 2011
160,000 in 2012
310,000 in 2013

Do the math, that's $735,000 raised, 90% of which go towards "on the ground" improvements for wildlife on the island. That's $661,500 to benefit wildlife as a whole for 3 deer. To me, that is impressive! None of that money goes towards infrastructure of the park, it's strictly benefits the wildlife.

Sheep were introduced to the island in the late 1990's and the primary reason why, from what I've been told, was to create a nursery herd. It was a good location due to the lack of predators. These sheep are used to not only strengthen other herds of sheep across North America but to actually re-introduce sheep into certain areas. The sheep on Antelope Island have been used as a nursery herd for 2 ranges in Utah that I know of, the Stansbury Range as well as the Newfoundland Range. My good friend bought the auction tag on the Newfoundland Range last year. The general public may have not had sheep to hunt or view and photograph had it not been for the Antelope Island herd and men like Larry that are willing to spend more money there to kill a potentially lesser ram. There was a damn big ram killed on the Newfoundland Range just this year.

It bothers me when I see arguments like the one that Topgun is trying to make, that it's becoming a rich mans sport and they then go on to say it's not a "jealousy" issue. How bout instead of demonizing the men that buy these tags we just say thanks due to the amount of money they raise to enhance OUR wildlife and OUR opportunity. Remember, this money is not coming from our license fees and/or tax dollars. If you want to be mad at somebody be mad at poachers because they steal from us and don't give back a thing!

The issue I have had is how some of these hunts are conducted, not with the program itself but that's another argument for another time

***Drummond, I know all of which you stated about the island herd, etc. The problem I have is when is enough enough and with the exact thing you mentioned in your last sentence! Several Governor tags from each state for the major species is one thing and I have no problem with that if the hunts are fair chase and basicly not a tag that is good for an entire year where it can be used on winter range. When we start down the slippery slope of selling hundreds of them like is done in Utah is where I have a big problem and they are taken out of the draw pools. I am well aware of the conservationist aspects of hunting and what we all do on an everyday basis in our hunting pursuits. I am in no way trying to demonize any of these men who buy these tags as they didn't create them, but are taking advantage of them in my personal opinion. That is why I asked why they couldn't just donate their money for a good cause without having to go on a hunt that most of the time is not what most of us would consider fair chase when an animal is shot on the winter range or has a name and is being photographed from vehicles most every day. Jealousy, at least in my case, has nothing to do with the argument. I would not go on any of these hunts that are auctioned off because I don't feel that most of them are what is normally considered fair chase, even though they may meet the B&C definition of such, and that is the extent of my argument. I just returned from having a great three months in five different states and it cost a mere fraction of what these tags go for that are being filled in one day on an island where some say it's more like a petting zoo than a place where maybe other than sheep should be hunted! Let's face it and admit that hunting is not now what it was in the past what with your Mossback types out there making big bucks off rich people and then more money making videos of their hunts to sell. The big money aspect of hunting nowadays is what makes me sick, because it's no longer the mere adventure of being out in God's great outdoors like I experienced the last three months that is driving things. The fact that hunting is now referred to as an "industry" by most on the TV shows, etc. compared to the 60+ years that I've enjoyed the outdoors for what it represents makes me sick! I'm sorry if that offends anyone here or any place else that I register my opinions on this subject. I guess I'm just one of the old ****ers that is living in the past and that makes me very sad!

What or who is Mossback?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
What or who is Mossback?

Mossback is an outfitting service owned by Doyle Moss. Your guide Kalan Lemon used to guide for him

So just a little input from a local, who has seen both sides of the issue.

Any Rocky/Cali bighorn sheep hunt in Utah will be high success and can be over in a matter of hours. Deserts are a different story. The Sheep on Ant Island can be viewed from the road with a spotting scope, but I can see many sheep from the road with a spotting scope on different units. The point is that Utah manages their Rocky/Cali bighorns for high success rates, which means they are easier to kill (not necessarily easier physically). Personally, I'd never take a mule deer tag for the Island. That shopping spree was thought up a decade ago and recently implemented to appease a high value donor (who hasn't even hunted the area). The bison hunt is akin to a ranch hunt, nothing wrong with that, but it is. The sheep hunt is close to sheep hunting in most other units in our State.

As for the Auction Permits, I think the Auction tags receive far too much credit for "good" outcomes. They are touted as a high success, when the reality is there are many components which allow for any success. BUT, the sheep tags actually do visible good by funding transplants. As far as the Antelope Island funds, no one really knows how much good they are doing. Easy to do the math that the money is there, but what does it really accomplish? Those permits certainly divided the hunting community and created a platform for anti-groups to win some public sentiment.

And yes, Utah has far too many permits (500+) taken from the public draw and distributed through special interest groups. One thing is certain, the internet ranting and threats of a few have hurt the ability of us on the ground to reduce the number of permits given outside the draw.

MC---Thanks much for your take on this situation! It appears that you are in agreement with most of my feelings on this subject. I do have a question for you if you don't mind and that is the statement you made at the end of your post regarding people hurting the ability to decrease the number of auction tags that the SFW/MDF has been able to pull from the DWR draws. Could you please expound on that statement if and when you have time? Please also see my PM to you regarding the person you mentioned regarding appeasing him by issuing those AI tags. Thanks!

Congrats and thanks are in order. Congrats to you Larry on a great Ram, and thanks to touchdown for some really nice pics. Don't let a few a$$holes here rain on your parade.

For the life of me I don't see why people still try to share their hunts and other info on here when it just sets them up for all the abuse from a very few? I quite any type of hunt reports for that very reason. I now send hunt reports via PM or e-mail to folks I know who appreciate the overall experience involved.

All you raggers here, and the CB thread really need to get a life!!

Larry Sellers
SCI (International Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Congrats and thanks are in order. Congrats to you Larry on a great Ram, and thanks to touchdown for some really nice pics. Don't let a few a$$holes here rain on your parade.

For the life of me I don't see why people still try to share their hunts and other info on here when it just sets them up for all the abuse from a very few? I quite any type of hunt reports for that very reason. I now send hunt reports via PM or e-mail to folks I know who appreciate the overall experience involved.

All you raggers here, and the CB thread really need to get a life!!

Larry Sellers
SCI (International Life Member

***Sir, we live in America where there are various opinions on certain things and it is my right and your right to disagree with each other without you calling us names!!! To post what you did just because one or more of us don't share your opinion is pure, unadulterated BS!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Congrats and thanks are in order. Congrats to you Larry on a great Ram, and thanks to touchdown for some really nice pics. Don't let a few a$$holes here rain on your parade.

For the life of me I don't see why people still try to share their hunts and other info on here when it just sets them up for all the abuse from a very few? I quite any type of hunt reports for that very reason. I now send hunt reports via PM or e-mail to folks I know who appreciate the overall experience involved.

All you raggers here, and the CB thread really need to get a life!!

Larry Sellers
SCI (International Life Member

***Sir, we live in America where there are various opinions on certain things and it is my right and your right to disagree with each other without you calling us names!!! To post what you did just because one or more of us don't share your opinion is pure, unadulterated BS!!!

I agree with part of what you say. Mr Sellers is stating his opinion which, as you pointed out is his right .

Thanks for the pics.

Funny how a couple pics turn this thread
into a SFW debate; thanks TG.

I am not a fan of SFW or TG. I listened to his endless ranting for years on MM. Probabably a decent guy but just doesn't know when to shut up.

Besides that, he's never hunted once in Utah but seems to know everything about our state.

Go ahead and fire away TG..,,

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:
Thanks for the pics.

Funny how a couple pics turn this thread
into a SFW debate; thanks TG.

I am not a fan of SFW or TG. I listened to his endless ranting for years on MM. Probabably a decent guy but just doesn't know when to shut up.

Besides that, he's never hunted once in Utah but seems to know everything about our state.

Go ahead and fire away TG..,,

***Tell me Utah is ahead of the other states in their game management the way the SFW and DWR are so tied together with the former basically running the latter and I'll say you're full of baloney. The biggest percentage of those who know what's going on out in Utah with those hundreds of tags that SFW has swiped from the draw pools do not like it and it doesn't matter whether they are Utah residents or not. Nope, I don't hunt in Utah when that kind of underhanded BS is allowed, but I will voice my educated opinion on the mess out there whether some like it or not. I have numerous friends that call Utah their home and not a single one likes what SFW has done. It's now to the point where things may change when the next Expo contract comes up and people start looking at what the RMEF has stated in regards to so-called conservation organizations living off the public coffers like SFW/BGF does in Utah! There, now are you happy Jason?! PS: If you haven't noticed, Larry Shores opened this can of worms on this thread when he replied in his post that filling a bison tag on AI would be EXTREMELY easy. I just took it from there and ran with it!

TG:

I actually think you are a decent guy.

I didn't like you degrading a guys hunt, but I guess we will agree to disagree.

You certainly don't have to convince me about
the problems of Utahs wildlife. It's crap, and I in know way support SFW. I used to,
and donated a lot of money to them. That is over.

Our mule deer management is GARBAGE!

For the first time in my 25+ years of
deer hunting in Utah, I wasn't able to get
a tag for one the the worst units, easiest to draw, units in the state.

It's not really a big deal. I've shot enough deer. It's the future generations (my kids included) that I worry about.

I hope you had a great hunt in Wyoming! That's where we will be hunting next year!

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:
I didn't like you degrading a guys hunt....

This is the issue I have with TG here as well.

I absolutely hate the system in Utah and will never hunt that state as a matter of principle and I wouldn't hunt Antelope Island if I was given a tag. There are a number of reasons for this but I will say that the only place I can see any benefit of these tags in Utah are from the tags on Antelope Island. The revenue generated goes directly to the wildlife there. Using the sheep on Antelope Island as a "nursery herd" is damn smart! More hunters benefit from that than you could imagine. By selling a handful of animals you are creating opportunity in other areas for other hunters and that is a good thing. That would not be possible if it were not for guys like Larry. I also like that they auction a tag and give a tag away in the drawing making it equal opportunity for all

I would love to see the various wildlife agencies crack down on illegal guiding and operators that operate in the grey area. I would love to see the dates for these tags amended to keep people off of the wintering ground. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing them do away with the 4th season here in CO but none of this is Larry's fault so to bring it up and use him as your whipping boy to vent your frustrations is not only classless and rude, it's just plain stupid.

Jason and Drummond---None of what I stated about the tags was intentionally aimed at Larry. It just happened that his bison comment struck me as pretty lame when the same could be said of the rest of the "hunts" on AI and I took it from there. Making the hunt sound like a typical sheep hunt like I went on this year in Oregon with a buddy didn't set well with me, whether the sheep tag money is going for a good cause or not. I can't disagree with you that if it is used as you say that it is worthwhile, unlike the sham being perpetrated on the rest of Utah with the large tag number debacle. I made the comment earlier that what I was mentioning wasn't aimed at him and that's why I didn't say anything on his thread regarding his hunt. I guess maybe I'm too blunt sometimes, but it comes from 60 years of watching hunting go down the tubes from a sport to a money driven industry! If it weren't for DP and the SFW, AI wouldn't be hunted and IMHO it shouldn't be on those auction tags. If there are too many animals for the habitat, then there should be a drawing for the public to participate in so that the animal numbers can be controlled. It appears that a huge amount of money is now going to be wasted transplanting a couple hundred deer from AI because the DWR says there are too many. Some of the locals that know the island and what it supports differ with that, but the transplant is going to happen. As you probably know, mule deer transplanting has been shown to be very ineffective wherever it has been tried in the past. Will this be just another boondoggle the DWR pulls off?! I hope not for the animal's sake and for the sake of the taxpayers of Utah. That transplant will probably cost more than what money has been made by selling those auction tags the last 3 years. Anyway, I'm sorry the thread turned to the tag issue and that it involved a guy who is also probably a conservationist at heart, but taking animals from that island sanctuary on high priced auction tags, in my opinion, is not the way hunting should be portrayed. Jason, I'm sorry to hear of your particular situation of not being able to even draw a deer tag in your home state this season. Wyoming is going downhill as far as the deer hunting goes too, but not to the extent that you can't at least get a regional tag in a lot of areas to get out and hunt. Good luck to ya!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Making the hunt sound like a typical sheep hunt like I went on this year in Oregon with a buddy didn't set well with me, whether the sheep tag money is going for a good cause or not.

What's a typical sheep hunt?