To all,

A friend of mine has developed a unique hunting idea and would like some feedback. I informed him that opinions are readily available on this forum!

First the details..

The ranch is 17,000 acres in eastern Montana. No high fence. The ranch has mule deer, whitetail deer, antelope, bison, pheasants, sage grouse and huns. Ducks and geese are spotty. The accomodations are first class.

What do you think of the following:

$10,000 per year for:

-One whitetail or one mule deer. The whitetail are some of the biggest in Montana. You will see up to 190 class. The mule deer are 24 to 30 inches, very heavy and chocolate.

-One antelope if tag is drawn. You can expect 13-16 inch speed goats.

-One bison, alternating between bull and cow. These are not "wild" buffalo, but they roam the entire ranch.

-10 hunting days for upland birds.

This offer would be limited to 10 people.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Ski+3

Skibumplus3, is that $10,000 per hunter, per year??

Thanks. L.W.

To clarify......

Ten hunters, $10,000 each. Per year.

Thank you. I'll pass.

L.W.

Ten thousand dollars from 10 co-owners per year, or a $100,000 payment amortizes a 30-year loan of approximately $1.4 Million, or about $82 per acre. This would sound like a fairly low price, but many of the ranches in this area "include" a sizeable acreage of "leased" BLM or other government land and only a relatively small amount of deeded land. Obviously, this would make a difference.

What's the deal on the livestock grazing, minerals, etc? What kind of return would the participants expect?

Stonecreek,

Small error in your thought process. There are NOT 10 co-owners. They would be guests/hunters.

Ski+3

Way out of my league. I'm saving to go back to Africa!

Some Duck Clubs go for $300,000 membership + $10,000 per year. Just putting things in perspective.

Jim

Can you get the membership list for that duck club? I want to sell those guys Venezuela. (I can show them the deed.) For $300,000 I'll throw in Panama.

Ski,
Would the hunter/client be on his own, entirely, or would there be accomodations available or what?
Nearest airport? Horses? Vehicles?

[ 01-28-2003, 14:55: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nickudu,

I know the accomodations are very nice. I assume all ten hunter's would have a guide and vehicle to use. The plan is for the hunter's to draw for time on the ranch during hunting season. Our season is 5 weeks so there would be 2 hunter's per week. Each would have a guide.

The nearest big airport is about 3 hours away.

Ski+3

Ski,
I find it interesting. Do the state hunting seasons for the deer/elk coincide for the entire five week term you speak of? The buffalo hides are good this early? Keep me posted please? Thanks.

Nickudu,

Our speed goat season opens on October 12 and closes on November 9th. Deer and elk both open on October 26th and close on November 30th.

You CAN'T hunt antelope and whitetail in the rut on the same trip.

Some of the biggest elk in North America live about 40 miles away. Drawing a tag is next to impossible.

Ski+3

Quality trophys will bring big bucks, but even then, I find the price a bit on the excessive side. A trophy quality deer hunt could command $5000, Antelope $1500-$2000, and non-wild Buffalo I've seen for $1000 or less. If your area will regularly produce B&C trophys, you will more than likely get $10,000 clients, but you have to offer something special to get that kind of money.

Ski,

Is the $10K all inclusive with the ranch providing tags and licenses to investors?

To assist in valuing the opportunity, what is the current non-resident license fees for these animals?

thanks...

jim dodd

Last time I checked, the Montana non-res license fees were just over $1000 for the guarenteed non-resident combo Elk/Deer. Speed goat is another couple hundred. The overall license was also good for birds and small game.
10K for a client seems high, for a partner then I think has possibilities. Is the land BLM and also is it going to be a trophy management ranch with the associated work?

I look at it from this perspective ...
Many go west to hunt muledeer, or perhaps muledeer and antelope on a single trip. Elk or buffalo, also, would normally require separate trips. It's not hard to see that it might very well require 3, 4 or more trips out west to collect these animals, along with associated airfares, outfitting costs (whether or not you utilize the services of a professional), allotted time, etc., etc.
Should a hunt for any of these species come to an early conclusion ... that's it, hunt over, regardless of the remaining time available and paid for.

With this scenario comes the real possibility of hunting for top trophies of multiple species, irregardless of when the hunt for one of them concludes. One is spritely off after the next species on the agenda. Surely, a fellow might tend to lower his usual trophy standards somewhat, in order to fill his quota, but he may not have to, either. Should he glass a great whitetail, early on and decide to blow half the week collecting it, so what? ... he's still got the time and the opportunity to look for his muley or elk or ... The one real downside I see is that a big buffalo or elk may represent a "once in a lifetime trophy" to a fellow and, once collected, he'll be paying big bucks solely to hunt big bucks. I remain interested, especially if the possibility exists of trading off a hunt to a friend or associate, as one might do with a timeshare Condo, in the Caribbean. Food for thought. Lots of possibilities, here.

[ 01-29-2003, 07:27: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

[ 01-29-2003, 09:06: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll pass your opinions on to the landowner and report back here if anything happens.

Ski+3