I'm with chick. A fast 308 and a 416 Rem (RUM even better, but ammo issues) and you're good.
Me personally, I'd put a light-as-I-can-enjoy-it 260 Rem in there.

Hi guys,



I just bought another rifle! A new in box Win. Mod. 70 Stainless Classic Left Hand, Walnut stock, .270 win.



Translation: I have a standard length SS LH action to work with :help:



First question is about my future rifle battery. Which combo would you prefer and why? Combo trips might include Grizzly or Brown Bears and Moose or elk or where hunting sheep, mulies, goats, Caribou, whitetails with possibilities of Grizz in area. Keep in mind that I plan on hunting Africa again, this time for Cape Buffalo, Eland, Zebra, Waterbuck, Sable etc. Most shots under 300 yards, but have skill and confidence for 400-500 yard shots when opportunity exists.



Rifle Battery 1: 300WSM, 330 Dakota, 375 Weatherby

Rifle Battery 2: 300 Dakota, 375 Weatherby

Rifle Battery 3: 300 Dakota, 330 Dakota, 375 Weatherby



My current big game rifle is a 300 WSM Savage Mod. 16 LH, SS. Even though extremely accurate with gunsmith work, I want a CRF Mod. 70 as a primary rifle and will probably either sell it or keep as a backup.



I also bought a beat-up Mod. 70 LH, blued steel to build a 375 Wea. with. I may just sell this action as I think Stainless Steel is the way to go for my purposes.



Second question: Given the above possible rifle battery combos, which would you choose to build first on this new SS action?



1. Build my 375 wea. on this SS standard action (Pros: CRF action, all-weather, I like Stainless Steel Cons: ?)



2. Forget about the .300WSM and build a .300 Dakota; IMHO, the next most efficient, best in class .30 cal cartridge. (Pros: Max. utilization of Standard action, slightly better than 300 WSM when using heavier bullets and facing larger game like Grizzly Cons: Heavier rifle than a SA 300WSM for mountain hunting, anyone with recoil calc. for 300 Dakota vs. 300 WSM in 8 lbs rifle using 180 grs.? I do not look at brass avail or price as a factor )



3. Use this action to build a .330 Dakota



My dilema really revolves around wanting to have just 2-3 big game rifles that will handle the world so that they become an extension of myself when shooting-hunting with them.



Thanks guys for pointing out what a PITA it would be to have it chambered in .300 WSM

Perhaps I'm tired...I haven't had my Mountain Dew yet today. Did I read correctly? You bought a 270 and want to convert it to a 300WSM?

I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think you'd want or could do that. You'll have bolt face and feeding problems, even if you change your follower. Better repost on the gunsmithing thread to get that advice.

Your conversion from .270 (in the simplest of jobs) would be to convert to another standard long action only. Conversions can be done to other stuff but that is a pain in the A$$ for the smith.

But, as I said, I may not comprehend exactly what you meant.

I'll have to agree w/ Doc here. Turn that M70 into a .338-06 or .35Whelen for an Alaskan thumper & you will have a good combo for close in & the .300wsm for extended range. The .338Winmag or .330 Dakota would also be a great round to balance your .300wsm. Build either off your battered M70 blue if it is already a magnum action.

Assuming that you do not have any of the proposed rifles, I'd build a 300 first since since I would be more likely to need it before I needed the 375 WBY. I would choose a 300 Dakota as 300WSM is designed for a short action and a 330 is very close to a 375.
If I were to build a battery, I'd leave it as a 270 and search for another Mod. 70 in 375 H&H. I don't feel that the extra velocity of the WBY is worth the increased recoil. If I felt that the 375 H&H isn't enough gun, and I think that it is enough gun, than I'd move up to a 416 REM. With those two I could hunt anything. If you don't like 270 than convert it to a 30-06. 300 WIN would work as well, but I'd rather have one rifle that is relatively soft shooting for plains game or whitetails.

The more I travel to hunt, and the less certain travel becomes in a post-9/11 world, the more I appreciate the wide availability of standard cartridges. The Dakota cartridges are fantastic, especially the two you mention, but they're hard to get even in the US. Last year, TSA took 33 of my 9.3x62 cartridges when I was coming home from a hunt because the boxes had broken and they were loose in my duffle. I should have packed them better, but my point is that you can unexpectedly lose ammo much more easily than you think. If I had lost that ammo on the way in, I'd have been in a serious bind.

You have a 270 and a 300 WSM -- both good light rifles. But 270 ammo is available worldwide and WSM ammo is not, and your choice of loads for the WSM's is far from guaranteed. Also, the 270 is in your hands right now, and in a stainless CRF action. That's Rifle #1 right there. If you just have to make it something else, I'd make it a 30-06 or a 300 Winchester Magnum, again for ammo availability.

I'd make Rifle #2 a 375. The H&H comes to mind, but you can shoot H&H ammo in the Weatherby chamber in a pinch, so the Weatherby is not a bad call. Plus you might be able to find a cheap Weatherby that someone else built and got tired of. Either way, I'd make it a 375, and I'd match the safety, sights, stock, balance, trigger pull, etc., on my light rifle as closely I could.

My #3 Rifle would be no smaller than a 458. Lott ammo probably will be available worldwide before long, and a Lott will fire 458 WM ammo in a pinch. I'd also consider a 470 double.

I gather from your choices that recoil is not much of an issue. It is for me, so my light rifle is a 308, and my North American medium is a 35 Whelen that is its near-twin. Were it not for recoil, I'd use a 338. (35 Whelen ammo is hard to find sometimes, so I leave a stash of ammo in a prepacked, prepaid preaddressed box so I can get resupplied with a phone call.) When I go to Africa I'll take the 308 and swap the 35 Whelen for my 9.3x62. If dangerous game is on license, I'll drop one of them and add a 458 Lott.

Hope this helps, Okie John.

Build a 9.3x62 on that .270 action. Better than a Whelen (can handle heavier bullets), and ammunition is available in Europe and southern Africa.

George

As for your cartridge choices, I would suggest that you look at a combination of:
.30 something paired with a .375 H&H, or
.338 something paired with a .416 or .404 something. Either of these combos will cover all bases.
There is too much overlap in a battery that has a .30, a .338 and a .375 in it. If you think that you will hunt an elephant in africa, then add a third rifle in the form of a large bore of some kind, bolt or double with a .458" minimum.
As far as cartridges, if you like the short mags, use short actions with them, otherwise you have defeated the benefit of their design.
There is merit to choosing readily available ammunition for travel purposes, but realize that there is also the chance of not being able to find ammo no matter what chambering you have, so you will likely have to borrow a rifle anyway.
Besides, what fun is it to be like everyone else.
The Dakota line of cartidges are very well designed, as is the .300 Win, .338 Win and .375 H&H. There are a bunch of cartidges that fall into the power range that you are looking at, just choose what you like and use an appropriately sized action to match it.

Canadian,

Being that I have personal experience with several 33's incl. the 330 Dakota I'd opt for just sticking with the 338 WM. It shoots quite flat with the 210 NP so it pretty much rules out the need for a 30 magnum and with the 250 NP it is adequate for all NA game plus most animals in Africa.

As for 375 I have used both the H&H version and Weatherby. The Weatherby is a bigger hammer any way you look at it but the recoil is stiffer. Personally I feel pretty good carrying either one.

The last few years I've done most of my hunting with a 300 WM and a 375H&H. Using good bullets and a little common sense nothing on the planet is safe with this combo.

The Dakota cartridges have a problem in that the brass is very strong but you'll need to neck turn the cases to get consistent neck tension. If you are not an experienced reloader this could be a problem. If you buy the Dakota factory ammo you will find it not available everywhere and it will be very expensive.

I agree with you that if you are building real working rifles they should be stainless. I lived in Alaska for many years and blued wood stock rifles just do not hold up.

I hope the above hasn't confused the issue for you.

Regards,

Mark

Thanks for your sound advice.

With regards to reloading, I have good news for you that might make my choice slightly more challenging... :

Dakota has just contracted LAPUA to make ALL of their BRASS! This is good news and apparently addresses concerns that they have received about thick and hard necks etc...

Cheers,
CL

Canadian,

Good news on the brass. That Mast stuff prety much put me over the brink. I did get 2950 FPS with 250 Swifts with a 24.5 inch barrel. Recoil was stout but not unbearable. I think if I had the 330 Dakota running right I might match it with a 416 of some sort as previously suggested. Given that pairing I personal might add a 257 or 270 Weatherby for pronghorn etc.

Regards,

Mark

Keep your .270 WCF as the #1 rifle, although I would prefer a .30-06, then get a 9.3x62mm or a .375 H&H as the #2. You won't need anything else!!

LLS

I feel the .270 coupled with a .375 H&H would be a great combo.....like another poster I like the 30/06 a little better.

Here's a great and practical battery that'll do it all:

.30-06, .338 Win. Mag., .416 Rem. Mag.


Here's a good alternate battery:

.270 Win., .300 Win. Mag., .416 Rem. Mag.


Here's a great "British battery":

.300 H&H, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby

I'd be happy with any of these combos to hunt the world.....

AD

Thanks Allen.

You guys are making lots of sense now that I've done more thinking and research.

I am now strongly thinking about a .300 win. mag. as a primary rifle. I will settle as an upper end with a .375 Weatherby (though the H&H is tempting).

Let's say it is a 300 win mag and a 375 Wea. I will also be adding a light (about 7lbs w/scope) short action .308 win to this battery for brush hunting whitetails and lots of target practice.

What else for big game? Would you have a .33 cal in between the .30 and .375? Or add a long range set-up for Pronghorn, Coues and Mulies?

Love these types of discussions, thanks!

quote:

---

Originally posted by CanadianLefty:
...I have good news...Dakota has just contracted LAPUA to make ALL of their BRASS! ...

---

Well, kinda good news. At the SHOT Show I spoke with Lapua- they are still in the R&D stage and may take another 2-3 years to produce Dakota brass!

In the interim, I may just settle on the 300 Win. Mag...

It seems about impossible to beat the 300 WM as an "all-rounder"...

A significant problem is the left hand actions. Since you now have a 270 Win it's up you if it's an adequate cartridge.

If it were me the last thing I would do is to limit myself to three rifles. If you do that and one fails or even does not shoot well a week before a big trip your out of luck with no backup for that catagory.

So start to aquire more. Changing barrels is a way to loose your money. When your done with that you will have less guns and no backup.

For instance your present 300 WSM Savage is already CRF and if you forget ammo in Canada then you forgot your ammo. I see little problem with that gun right now or the other as a Canadian battery.

In the mean time I would look for a left handed DGR rifle. Try to buy one complete.

I agree with Okie John and the others who suggest sticking with standard cartridges. It makes your life very simple and in the event of an ammo crisis - well, there would be no crisis if you lost your ammo and were using a 30-06 and a .375 H&H (throw in a .458 Win or Lott and you've got your heavy rifle too).

"Rifle Battery 1: 300WSM, 330 Dakota, 375 Weatherby

Rifle Battery 2: 300 Dakota, 375 Weatherby

Rifle Battery 3: 300 Dakota, 330 Dakota, 375 Weatherby"
==========================================
Since the .375 Weatherby was mentioned every time I will comment on it and the .375 Improved since I have a .375 AI.

In general I would not go out of my way to get one unless it falls into your hands. The increase in velocity is not all that much and the blown out belted cases are no good for case life as the expansion web gets damaged on the first shot. On mine it's just about impossible to fireform cases and what's the sense of that anyway? It's true in a pinch that the standard .375 H&H can be used.

If more power is wanted over the .375 H&H, and this is your DGR?, then I would look at a bigger bore.

In summary if a .375 Weatherby or improved comes your way at a good price then grab it and use it as is. Otherwise I would not go one inch out of my way for one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CanadianLefty:
Thanks Allen.<br /><br />You guys are making lots of sense now that I've done more thinking and research.<br /><br />I am now strongly thinking about a .300 win. mag. as a primary rifle. I will settle as an upper end with a .375 Weatherby (though the H&H is tempting).<br /><br />Let's say it is a 300 win mag and a 375 Wea. I will also be adding a light (about 7lbs w/scope) short action .308 win to this battery for brush hunting whitetails and lots of target practice.<br /><br />What else for big game? Would you have a .33 cal in between the .30 and .375? Or add a long range set-up for Pronghorn, Coues and Mulies?<br /><br />Love these types of discussions, thanks!

---

I think you are on the right track this time....a short light fast handling .308 for the bush. A .300 WM for all light game and a .375 H&H or Weatherby for most everything else.

Guess my question to you is what can a .33 do that either your .300 or .375 can't do as good or better. Like several other people have said, unless you are hunting elephant or rhino the .375 can easily take all the rest of the big stuff. You really could get by with just the .308 and the .375. If it were me I would go for the .375 H&H...much less muzzleblast and greater selection of rifles.

Bob

I know this: If I were restricted to two rifles for my own persoanl use to hunt all of the world's big game with, I'd pick a .300 Win. Mag. and a .416 Rem. Mag.

I'm a big .338 fan, and I hunt with it when I feel like it, but in reality I have never seen dime's worth of difference in the way a .338 Win. drops big game versus the .300 Win., and the .300 is less fussy, kicks less, and shoots flatter as well with greater availability and greater bullet selection. The .300's more versatile than The Great Icon, the .30-06 as well, and the extra 200-300 fps. it brings to the table over the good ol' '06 makes this a reality. It could be no other way.

I see the .375 H&H as a neither-fish-nor-foul cartridge. It's good for Africa if you only want to hunt with one rifle, but there's nothing the .375 will do that the .416 won't improve upon significantly when it comes to the big stuff that can fight back, and for plainsgame (eland on down) the .300 kills ever bit as well, is lighter to carry, and shoots flatter and kicks less to boot.

For N.American hunting, most .375s are just too darned heavy to haul up the mountain. I've done it, but never again..........

AD

Starting with .223 caliber, a lot could be said in favor of having a round every .075 or so, in whatever particular flavor strikes your fancy. The calibers work out as follows:
.223,
.308,
.375,
.458.

Rifles shooting those diameter bullets would leave anyone well-prepared anywhere.

allen day: "Here's a good alternate battery:

.270 Win., .300 Win. Mag., .416 Rem. Mag."

That would be my pick as well.

Or maybe the .416 Rigby - in any event a good .416. I'd keep the .270 for general shooting and the .300 Win. Mag. is mighty versatile.

Tonight,

I would pics a 22/250, 30/06 & .416 Rigby and there would be nothing I could not hunt with this set of rifles.

Oh, I would also need a 12 g shot gun and .22 rimfire.

For African Use, skip on the .33 calibres. If it needs a .338 use a .375! For small buck use the .375 with solids, For lion, Eland, Girraffe, Buff, Hippo, Ele use a .375 H&H or a Weatherby if you feel like it.

For everything else in between? A good flat shooting 7mm or .30 will do nicely from the deserts to bush- but - Buy one that you can get a re-supply of ammo for in Africa. ie 7x64, 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Winchester, .300H&H mag

Appart from a personal intense dislike of the .378/.375 weatherby's it would also be a good reason to stick with a standard .375 H&H for African use. There is only one gun shop between the limpop river and Dar where you can buy .378 ammo. US40 a pop.

By all means use an odd caliber for Dangerous game if you wish, but just ship out ammo in two suitcases so when SAA loose one of your bags for a week you can still hunt! For plainsgame though it would be worth having one rifle that will serve you well for a plainsgame namibia hunt to a second rifle in Tanzania, and a common caliber for which ammo is available is a huge help.

Last year I had 4 clients who's kit didn't arrive on the same day as they did. Three arrived the next day and one chap got his rifle ok but had to hunt in borrowed kit as his suitcases with everything including ammo arrived the day he flew out! Sadly it is becomming too common to be pleasant, especially with SAA. They used to be great, but my last six trips to Botswana on SAA my lugage has never arrived on the same flight - (and as each trip has been as a state witness in murder cases not having the photomicrographs, fired cases etc etc for the court hasn't always been convienient!)

I would go for 3 cartridges for big game
.243 for small big game (pronghorn & such)
.270 for everything else in North America ('cept bears and moose)
.375 H&H for bears, moose, & African game

Gentlemen

My 3 cartridges for big game would be

7X64 Brenneke pronghorn, deer's and sheeps
8X68S. for bigger deer's and moose
404 Jeffery or 416 Rigby for a big stuff and African game

Cheers
/ JOHAN

You have been given a wealth of good knowledge here. The comment about only sticking with common cartridges is a really good one. I would get a 300 Weatherby if you are determined to have 300 Dakota velocity.

I would also try the 375 H&H before I opened it up to Weatherby or Ultra. I have been all over the world and have never seen a box of 375 Weatherby ammunition in any but the largest gunstores.

416 Remington Mag
300 WSM
223 Rem

That should take care of everything on this planet

My battery is:

.257 Wby Mag
.300 H&H Mag
.338 Win Mag.


It wont do Africa, but except for perhaps big grizzlies, there isn't anything in N. America I can't hunt.