Since I've got a deer hangin in my shop trailer, I was trying to decide to age the meat or not.

I've some asked a couple of respected avid hunting members what they think of aging deer, and some believe it's a good idea, and some not.

What's the overall census among hunters here?

I skinned mine out night before last (within an hour of shooting her, but I dressed it out in the field as soon as I shot it), and tonight will be 48 hours it's hung up in my shop trailer which is metal with a heavy wood floor. It's been 40-45 degrees, in the day and 25 at night so that box is keeping real cool.

40-45 might be a bit warm for aging red meat; we had a cooler and never let it get above 35. It's worth trying anyway to find out for sure. Aged venison is much better but I'm talking 21 to 28 days, not hours. And any time it is frozen doesn't count because the enzemes that improve the meat are inactive when frozen.

You lose some meat from trimming after that long so anything you plan on grinding or chopping should be removed first. Just age the part you want to cut into steaks.

I would also agree with our European friends that one shouldn't wash a carcass if it's going to hang in a cooler for a long time. Any stray hairs (which really shouldn't be there in the first place) will get trimmed away with the dry meat after aging.

Washing the carcass risks spreading bacteria all over which is irrelevant if its going to be frozen, processes or eaten right away. It can matter if it's hung, though.

It depends on the deer itself. If the deer is in the deep woods, or scrub protions of Texas, then aging will certainly help the meat. In Kansas, or Iowa where there is no gamey taste because they are grain fed along with the cattle, there has never been a need. I do agree with tiggertate that as close to freezing without actually doing it is preferrable which means about 35 degrees. Usually 3-5 days is sufficient in my experience.

I've hung deer for up to 10 days under the right conditions temperature wise. I don't skin the deer while it is hanging unless I use a mesh game bag. If it is being hung in a locker, I THINK they do skin it.
Hanging improves the overall quality of the meat.

As long as the meat never gets over 45 degrees, let it hang a good 5 days for all of the collagen to break down. This will result in VERY tender meat. It's not an opinion, aged meat is always more tender than cut and frozen immediately.

If I could, I'd hang every deer for 5-6 days in a cooler that stayed about 35 degrees. It is much better eating. It is my opinion that the deer needs to be skinned immediately though. I've heard tales of how leaving the skin on helps "tenderize" the meat, yet no one can explain the mechanism of this tale. I don't believe it myself. Skin doesn't taste good, so why on earth leave it on the meat?

since you asked:

remove the hide and cool the carcass and clean it with a garden hose if you can immediately(within a couple hours) after killing it.

Quarter the carcass and bone out the meat and place it it plastic bags and put it in a cooler with ice for a day or two.

Process the meat as you wish after that.

About hanging meat:

Have you ever noticed that deer are not hung from anywhere where those that drive by can't see them? Have you ever noticed that they are always in proportion to the size of the horns?

Thanks for the input.

It had been about 45 drgs out in the day, but that box stays cool as an icechest if you don't open the roll up door, so I think I've been below 35.

Should be good eatin' cause I got it with a 45-70 and 340gr cast wheel weights bullet. Bang flop, and an instant kill. Massive blood in the chest cavity.

Very clean big hole in, and big hole out with no bloodshot meat whatsoever.

So Vapodog,

Are you saying hanging is basicly an old wives tale, vanity thing?...

I did hose it clean right after skinning. It's in a deer bag, and I'll be cutten' it up today.

Last night was 48 hours.

Skinning and washing the meat with a water/vinegar solution to remove blood, dirt, etc. Hanging it for 5 days at 32-35 is best. Anything above that temp and you risk the meat going rancid. It is my opinion that hanging the meat or ageing it does very little in changing the taste, but it does make it more tender which can help the meat take on a spice or marinade better. The taste of the meat is predetermined by it's age, hormones (rut), and most importantly, what it eats everyday.

Speaking of hanging . . . .

What about hanging from hind legs vs. head?

In Alaska, everyone pretty much hangs from the hing legs. Other areas (mid-west and east) hang head first. What's your theories here?

I think it's pretty much a local custom thing and maybe which way is easier to skin 'em. Never even tried skinning from the head down. I have heard of pulling the hide off with a tractor or truck - maybe this is easier from the head down?

MM

Doc,

We hang all our deer with the hide on in a walk-in cooler that is kept 34-38 degrees.

It seems that leaving the hide on keeps the meat from drying out too much on the outside which means less wasted meat when trimming the finished product. Not scientific but certainly no harm to the meat. Usually leave the deer in the cooler for 2-3 weeks. Had one backstrap from my doe killed 11/6 just last night. Never frozen, very tasty and I'm still alive to talk about it

According to the USDA - aging will tenderize the meat because of action by enzymes in the meat. It will also have some effect on flavor. As far as tenderizing , freezing is the equivalent of 5 days aging. Aging should be done in a proper butchers cooler at 34-38F ,hide off. Meat spoils above 40F. Hide on? oils in hyde become rancid and flavor the meat. Hanging in garage?meat picks up wonderful flavors of gas and oil !...Mine is always in the freezer within 12 hours of being shot !!

Marlinlover: I have proven to myself dozens of times that hanging game "properly" does improve the eating qualities of the meat!
By properly I mean skinned and cooled properly and cooled in a manner to prevent excessive loss of moisture from the meat!
How have I repeatedly proven this to myself you ask?
Heres how.
I usually butcher my Deer and Antelope myself after hanging them for up to 7 days. Often while the creature is hanging I remove the heavy muslin game bag they are hanging in and carve off some of steaks to take immediately into my kitchen and cook for myself and my family!
I have on countless occassions (100+) noticed the improvement taste wise and quality (tenderness) wise of the meat over those 7 day stretches! Without exception the meat improved "with age"!
Now again let me specifically advise that a proper covering must be provided for the meat to prevent excessive moisture loss from the meat during aging. If it is hung "bare" for a week it will dry out and deteriorate taste and quality wise!
I understand the Kobe Beef folks in Japan hang their ultra expensive hunks of beef for 20 plus days! I have seen these beef hanging in documentaries and they DO NOT have muslin bags on them - BUT they do have extensive and complete coverings to the meat by the Kobe Beef's own fat! No "dehydration" of the meat there. Antelope have no fat and Deer fat is a detriment to taste after cooking so I often remove the large layers of Deer fat while skinning.
Good luck and yes hanging does improve the quality and taste of game meat! I understand this works on waterfowl, Wild Turkey and upland game as well - I have less experience in those instances.
Good luck!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Vapodog's system mirrors my own. (up to 3 days on the ice, but no more) I have to say that my venison is "never" gamey either. Do you guys buy chickens or steaks from the store and leave them in the yard for a week??? Venison is food....remember.
I have a different word for "aged" meat. I call it "spoiled" meat. To each his own.

Vapodog,
part of my system is to put the ice "over" the meat and let it drain the blood out as it melts, replacing ice as needed. I think alot of the gamey taste is from the blood not the meat. How about you??

quote:

Originally posted by marlinlover:
So Vapodog,
Are you saying hanging is basicly an old wives tale, vanity thing?... QUOTE]

For the most part.....Yes


[QUOTE] Vapodog,
part of my system is to put the ice "over" the meat and let it drain the blood out as it melts, replacing ice as needed. I think alot of the gamey taste is from the blood not the meat. How about you??

I cover the meat with ice and just leave the drain open at the bottom of the cooler to avoid meat sitting in water.

Just an aside.....take the loins and cut them about 1" thick and wrap them with bacon and pin the bacon on with a toothpick and grill them fresh. It's unbelievably good.

Well I appreciate all your views.

It's now today Monday 35 w/snow, so it's going to be a few degrees cooler in the trailer I would imagine.

I shot and skinned it late Friday afternoon, so I think it will be fine either way, because it's kept below 40 for sure, and in a muslin deer bag, in a clean place.

I'm resting up today and will butcher it up tommorrow. I think it will be fine, and not spoiled.

This is my first deer.

Well, down here if you hang meat where people can see it that means it'll spoil in a day. We hang it in a cooler, and if we catch strangers looking in our cooler they better run fast.

Mark G, most of the better steakhouses in the USA age their beef before they cut the steaks. I guess you have an excuse for not knowing that; Virginia may know ham but I never found a good steak there.

quote:

most of the better steakhouses in the USA age their beef before they cut the steaks.

Venison is not beef and don't really benefit from aging as beef does. Venison doesn't have the marbeling of fat in the muscle and aging allows the fat to migrate into the meat and the lack of fat in the meat of venison means there is no to little gain by aging as it does for beef.
There is an enzime action however that is beneficial but here again this is not the same as with beef that has far more fat in the tissues.

I mean no disrespect but I've been hanging deer for 35 years and made a serious study of it the first 5 and as a result I have to disagree. At least about wild Texas deer fed on natural browse. The changes I detected were profound after the first two weeks and maximize at four. At four however, you lose about 25% of the meat to trimming so we settle for three as a compromise. But then again, we had to cull 80-90 does each year and had a great deal of meat to experiment with. Usually we hung saddles and gave most of the rest away fresh so as not to waste. And hanging saddles takes a lot less room.

Even fillet of beef which is virtually fat free improves dramatically with ageing though it is seldom aged as long as the saddle.

Aging beef or any other meat is to let the connective tissues break down and tenderize the meat. How long you hang a deer depends on temperature as this process is a controlled decomposition and is faster the higher the temperature. It will help meat whether grain fed deer, beef or whatever. At 40-45 degrees I'd hang a deer inside a garage or basement for about a week. It's too hot to let it hang 2-3 weeks like you would in a packing house. Marbling (intramuscular fat) in beef is important in taste, 80% of the taste of a steak is from the fat, which is why you want marbled grain fed beef, not a lean grass calf. Aging is for tenderizing meat, I don't believe it will have any effect on gaminess at all. Most of the commercial processors will try to lead you to believe that aging won't help venison, which is BS. They won't let it hang two weeks because they have to completely clean the premises after working up game per USDA rules, so they sure as hell won't hang them more than a couple of days. I butcher my own deer as well as hogs, etc.

It's a fact that commercial processors want nothing to do with aging game. It is strictly a home grown technique and I would only recommend it on big pieces if you have a cooler or a spare refrigerator dedicated to the process.

I did not find a worthwhile improvement in pork but waterfowl and other game birds benefit as much or more from hanging. We've even gone as far as hanging dove and quail but that was just a phase...

You can try it at home by taking one of the big RubberMaid snap-lid plastic food storage containers and cut holes in all 4 sides about 1-1/2 inch diameter to let air circulate. Put a whole backstrap (make damn sure it's completely dry) inside and let it age about two weeks and try a piece; three weeks and try another and so forth. Keep it dry and the lid on.

Or put a duck in one...whatever. It's just another fun way to expand your game cooking techniques.

When I butchered my own deer in the Dakotas (didn't have to worry about it getting over 40F during rifle season ), I let them hang by the neck for 3-7 days, skin on, before processing. I would normally clean and pack the chest/abdominal cavities with snow just after field dressing. Now, I shoot, field dress, pack with ice and get to a processor.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
As far as tenderizing , freezing is the equivalent of 5 days aging.

I do not know where you got that information, but I strongly disagree. In fact, just the opposite is true in my experience. The faster meat is frozen after the kill, the more chewy and tough it is.

quote:

Meat spoils above 40F.

If that is true then I've eaten about 500 pounds of spoiled meat, not to mention what I've fed the kids. I disagree.

quote:

Hide on? oils in hyde become rancid and flavor the meat.

That is right! AND, this is also why taxidermists always advise NOT getting the hide wet at all as it facilitates bacterial growth and causes hair slippage, which obviously ruins a mount.

It is also rather disgusting thinking about the oils and other "goop" seeping into the meat from the hide if not taken off asap. I've never been to a slaughter house and seen a bull hanging in a cooler with the hide still on. (I've been to 3).

I never tried skin on/skin off comparison (way before Karate Kid) so I can't comment on the pluses or minuses. We skinned everything ASAP. But I agree freezing is not an equivalent to aging. It just ruptures water-filled cells and does nothing to break down connective tissues other than the cell walls. Enzemes do that and it takes time at the low temps required to prevent rotting.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:
Do you guys buy chickens or steaks from the store and leave them in the yard for a week??? Venison is food....remember.
I have a different word for "aged" meat. I call it "spoiled" meat. To each his own.

Here's something to try that might help understand aging meat, at least beef.

Go to your favorite grocery store and buy a really nice T-Bone, or better yet, Rib Eye in the typical foam/plastic wrapping.

When you get home, remove the meat from the store wrapping. Just tamp it "dry" with a paper towel. Put it on a plate and put it in your refrigerator. Please, no open containers of Limburger cheese, etc.!

Leave the meat for 24 hours. Then turn it over, making sure there isn't any liquid blood, etc., on the plate. Let sit for another 24 hours. Turn again. At the end of 72 hours of "dry aging" the meat will seem to have a hard surface. Ignore it.

Now take the meat out and grill it rare to medium rare. I usually put some garlic powder, onion powder, and coarse grind black pepper on just before putting it on the grill.

This is best done as a "test" if you buy two pieces and treat the other piece as you normally do. Let me know what you think.

Funny you should mention that. I have a local grocery store that puts out "dated" meat every day at the same time time at 1/2 price. I go by periodically and check the bin for steaks. There are often packs of the large end of beef tenderloin that are the "trimmings" of the fillet mignon in the butcher's case. They've been setting out most of the week or longer while the small end (the high dollar end) is whittled off for customers.

These have been in the dislplay case for long enough to matter and I usually freeze them and save them for the deer camp and my buddies. Needless to say, we call it "Used Meat" and as long as I have some I remain "The Man".

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:
I have a different word for "aged" meat. I call it "spoiled" meat. To each his own.

Well, if that is the case, then you are using 2 different words interchangably that have very different meanings. May I ask why?

Spoiled meat is spoiled meat. Aged meat is simply cooled meat left hanging so that the collagen fibers are broken down and the meat is still very edible, and 3x as tender.

Adam, my friend in CO, hangs his deer for 7 days give or take. Last year he mentioned that one of the deer actually started to mold a bit. He trimmed the outer layer, cooked it up, and stated that it was the best mulie venison they've had in a long time. Not the least bit chewy, but mouth watering tender.

Hanging deer is no different than hanging beef. The temperature should remain between 34 and 38 degrees, NO HIGHER for 7-10 days!!! Hanging like this is called dry aging, and is not even done much on commercial beef anymore. You can butcher your deer and achieve the same effect by holding it in your refrigerator, and be much safer and not have to worry about adding gamey tastes to the meat. More deer are ruined by hanging than benefit from it. I generally have mine in the freezer within a day of killing it.

Add smell to the equation.

I'm new to hunting, and this is my first deer. Been a shooter, and fisherman all my life.

Does the smell increase with age? I'm not used to the smell of venision.

I'm used to processing my offshore fish. I've got a system down, and I keep it REAL fresh. My nose can pick up the slightest hint of age on a fish.

Older beef in the market starts to have an off smell to me, eventhough it tastes pretty good, but the smell is not good to me.

Is this normal for venison? Does it get kinda like a "Bad" smell like old beef?

The smell shouldn't change but it can intensify. Most of what you smell in a butcher shop is years of accumulation of less than perfect cleaning. Not a slam; it's just unusual to find one hospital clean.

As to aged beef, I'm 52 and up until the late 60s every stick of meat in a grocery store was aged. In those days beef was still sold in halves and already aged. There were three grades too: Prime, Choice and Good. You could find all three every day.

Now anything rated USDA Good usually goes straight into the fast-food industry and "Prime" gets auctioned to restaurants by beef "brokers".

As beef prices climbed in the 60s, stores started to discount the price per pound by selling what was called "baby beef" which was actually freshly slaughtered. I can remember the fact that it had its own section in the meat case.

I can also remember people complaining about the lack of taste in "baby beef" steaks and roasts but buying it anyway because it was usually 10-15 cents a pound cheaper across the board.

Then one day not long after, there were no longer two sections and no more "Heavy Aged Beef", and fewer of the traditional cuts I grew up with. This is about the time the big meat packing plants took over the industry and ever since, it's almost impossible to get full halves. Now it's called "boxed beef" where certain pre-cuts are made to get maximum load density for shipping. The way they pre-cut the halves dictates what final cuts can be made. Just try finding a full sirloin steak anymore. For those who never saw one, they look a bit like an oval round steak with an oval piece of bone slightly off-center.

Efficiency has repalced the craftmanship of a good butcher.

I suppose those of you that never got to try heavy aged beef are lucky in that you don't know what you missed. Same for deer; if you never try it you won't have to go to the trouble each year to get more.

Ok I guess I should have been more specific in my post. I understand the effects of aging meat (beef) in controlled environments. Like Vapodog, I do not think it is nessessary.

What I am talking about is the massess of rednecks that will hang a deer in a tree for days on end (still in the hide mind you), and think they are aging the meat. Case in point today is November 29th well into our deer season. This morning 9:37am it is 63 degrees outside. I will bet my life savings I could drive around and find a deer hanging in a tree somewhere this morning. That is not aging, but people do it all the time. Then there families say that deer meat is gamey. Well duh!

I, too, live in TX, and don't have the luxury of letting meat hang for a week or so. I HAVE, on occasions in the past, let skinned carcasses hang when the weather was conducive to such, but those times were rare.

So the West Texas 7 point I shot Sunday morning is quartered and on ice. It will stay there for about five days, and then I will begin the butchering process. Seems to help leach some of the blood out of the meat...

And I prefer to hang my deer from the hocks to dress and skin them. That way the blood drains into the head, which is going to be cut off anyway. Hanging (and skinning) with the head up is much easier, but it puts more blood in the hams, and I don't care for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:
Ok I guess I should have been more specific in my post. I understand the effects of aging meat (beef) in controlled environments. Like Vapodog, I do not think it is nessessary.

What I am talking about is the massess of rednecks that will hang a deer in a tree for days on end (still in the hide mind you), and think they are aging the meat. Case in point today is November 29th well into our deer season. This morning 9:37am it is 63 degrees outside. I will bet my life savings I could drive around and find a deer hanging in a tree somewhere this morning. That is not aging, but people do it all the time. Then there families say that deer meat is gamey. Well duh!

Must be an Appalachian thing. Here if we don't have cooler or ice it gets cut up ASAP.

Not to stray too far from the subject but, Any of you soak in Salt water right after the kill?

We dress, skin, and quarter ours very soon after being shot and put them in a cooler. Then we pour salt all over the meat fill the cooler w/ water and top off w/ a bag of ice. We drain the water every day add more salt fill w/ water and ice again. Every day the water is very bloody until about 3 days in. I know people that do this up to 5 days. Once the meat is removed from the water and dried it is very pink sort of like pork and not near the dark rich red color of aged meat. I've always believed this to remove the blood from the meat and I've never had any that taste gamey although, I've ate my share of gamey tasting meat(usually the dark stuff).

Opinions on the soaking method?

Reloader

This reminds me of a friend who was raised in PA and said his dad always hung a deer with the hide on until the first thaw in the spring! He said he always thought deer tasted like sh*t- No kidding!
When he started hunting with me on the west coast and saw how we skin the deer as soon after harvesting as possible, let hang in the shade covered with a deer bag until cooled, then age in a walk-in cooler at 33-38 degrees for 2-3 weeks, he could not believe how good venison could taste.
Some folks have different opinions on how to treat meat. I've seen guys bring deer into the processer I use that I wouldn't feed to a dog!

Mark G

When someone talks about aging meat,they're not talking about leaving it hanging in a tree for dust, etc. to get all over it for a week. It is hung in the basement or a cool garage, never in the sun and it sure is not spoiled. If it's warm 40 degrees or so, you cut it up sooner, if it's in the 30's you can wait a week. It can of course be cut up and aged in the refrigerator for a couple of weeks. If it's 45-50 degrees there is no choice but to finish it immediately, as during our season this year it was 65 degrees I didn't even make an attempt to take a meat deer.

Jstevens,

Yeah, as I stated in the last thread I know what aging is. I was refering to the endless hanging in non-appropriate conditions that I see all the time. I only point this out because I know a lot of venision gets wasted / spoiled every year due to this treatment. (not genuine aging)
It may not be an issue in your neck of the woods, but it sure is going on in mine.

It's interesting to me that people still do that, Mark. It has to be a hold-over from the days of no electricity and it was the only way to store meat other than jerking (which can be difficult in Northern winter climes).

Not to mention that wild meat was too scarce (deer and waterfowl were pretty much thinned out by market hunting up to WW II and didn't recover well until into the early 60s) and protein was too hard to come by to throw any away.

Sometimes we forget the original reasons/hardships for things and old practices continue long after the need ends.

And frankly, there was a time when rotten meat was preferred in the kitchen. Back in pre-civil war days it was unheard of to cook game right after capture. Look at old still-life kitchen paintings of the day and you will see rabbits, water fowl or other game hanging in the kitchen "ripening" from hooks and waiting to be cooked. Even today in much of rural Europe game is hung until it is rotted by American standards before cooking.

When we were stationed in France in '53-'56 my mother took an interest in local cooking and was taken to farms where small birds (wrens, sparrows, blackbirds etc,) were caught and hung inside outbuilding doors for several days to weeks depending on temps. They were "done" when feathers dropped off unaided.

The innards were then scooped out with a spoon and put in a bowl, mixed with spices and spread on toast like peanut butter. Great delicacy to them. The bodies were usually baked in pie later.

Who'd have thought it?

Hang all big game.


We always hang deer. The red deer are hung for around 40 day degrees, roe deer for more like 45. Day degres are days times the temperature in celsius.

That means that if the temperature is 1 degree celsius/33fahrenheit a deer need to hang for 40 days. If its 10 celsius degrees/50faharenheit, it needs to hang for 4 days.

The ideal temperature us about 40 to 46 degrees fahrenheit. That means 5 to 8 days.

Get the guts out as fast as possible, skin the deer if is not belove freezing, then leave the skin on and get the deer someplace where it doesn't freeze. Freezing will stop the tenderising prosess. And it can't get started again. Try not touch the carcass with the outside of the skin/hair, it might contaninate the carcass, making it taste bad.(Particularly on bucks)

When the deer is skinned, you should clean it is there is any gut content or other inpurites on the carcass. Use a try cloth ot spunge, if it's really bad, like a raking gutshot, (I have done them), you can use a moist cloth. DO NOT USE WATER! No hosing of the carcass do remove blood etc. Not in any form should you use runing water, do not leave it in water/saltwater etc, it greatly increases bactera growt and the chance for getting a bad result increases.

I use my knife if it is to bad, you can cut of the frontlegs and hang them separately. It helps. If you can't clean it, remove it!

Then hang the carcass from the back legs, I usually cut the frontlegs partly of so that blood getting betwwen the scapula and the ribs, runs out.

The place you hang the deer should be sheltered from the weather, try and cool is ideal. Be hang them in a garage or the barn. Get some hight from the ground if there is a risk for cats, dogs etc to get to it. Flies and birds can be kept away using a fine net, it needs to let air true! We don't use it because most hunting is done after the fly season in autum or winter.

I check the carcass regularly for bad smell, if it doesn't smell bad it can hang.

The best way to check if the meat is tender is to press your tumb hard agains the thigh of the animal. Then if the bulge remains in the meat, it is tender. If it bounses back out at once, it needs to hang longer.

Johan

Here are this years catch of deer hung.


A young doe.


A doe.


A young buck.


All hung high in a garage with plenty of space.
They hung for about 6 days, all where beautifully tender and tasty, wihout any strong or bad taste.

Johan