The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

If you can afford it I would.

There are some great hunts for minors that can be a easy draw with a few points.

I live in Texas and do not understand "points".
When I hunt other states, I do so by simply paying the outfitter or land owner; "points" only confuse me.

However, I started my children and grandson shooting at ages 4 to 5 years.
Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:
The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Great idea...but states generally do not allow one to start applying until they reach legal age in that particular state to actually partake in the hunt. For example...in Colorado you must be 12 to hunt big game...you also must be 12 by the time fall hunting commences to even apply for a point. Just fyi.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:
The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Great idea...but states generally do not allow one to start applying until they reach legal age in that particular state to actually partake in the hunt. For example...in Colorado you must be 12 to hunt big game...you also must be 12 by the time fall hunting commences to even apply for a point. Just fyi.

Interesting...thank you for the info! I was under the impression that you could begin to apply for points only in some states(i.e. no chance of drawing but basically paying for the point). I will have to look carefully at each state. In particular I was thinking of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah as I know prime units can be tough to draw in these states but are well worth the wait. However, if the rules are similar to Colorado then I might be stuck...

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:
The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Great idea...but states generally do not allow one to start applying until they reach legal age in that particular state to actually partake in the hunt. For example...in Colorado you must be 12 to hunt big game...you also must be 12 by the time fall hunting commences to even apply for a point. Just fyi.

Interesting...thank you for the info! I was under the impression that you could begin to apply for points only in some states(i.e. no chance of drawing but basically paying for the point). I will have to look carefully at each state. In particular I was thinking of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah as I know prime units can be tough to draw in these states but are well worth the wait. However, if the rules are similar to Colorado then I might be stuck...

If ever you want help...we handle big game apps in virtually every western state - https://www.wearethedraw.com/global-hunting-resources

The points programs are broken.

Aaron can probably answer this better than anyone.

All states will take your money, but this may never result in a tag.

You already missed points programs for the year in Nevada, Utah and Arizona (well for elk anyway).

You need to look at Montana and Wyoming.

I wouldn't waste money on points for sheep, goats, bison and moose in the West. Anyone starting today probably needs 20-30 points and point creep will push that to 50 or 70 points by the time they actually award tags.

I wouldn't chase big famous units like Kaibab, Paunsantnaunt or Book Cliffs.

You need to have a big understanding of point creep. Point creep is killing western hunting. As most years the increase in tags needed from year to year is not going up 1 but often 2 and sometimes 3 years worth of points.

I am 45 had 9 points in Wyoming for sheep, and someone showed me how to do the math and I figure I will have to keep buying points until I am in my 90 if at all. Arizona, Utah and Nevada are worse still.

Points are expensive, I'd do the math on what it will take you to draw and find out if it is worth it or not.

These are the only points worth buying: elk, deer and antelope in Montana, elk and antelope in Wyoming, deer and elk in Utah, and elk in Arizona.

Compare outfitted versus long term points cost.

BWW...thank you for the information! That is very helpful for an eastern guy like me who has never dealt with the draw. Admittedly, I was naive to the extent of the "point creep" problem. I'll look closely at the numbers but outfitted hunts may be the better solution for us in most circumstances...

Guided antelope hunts are usually $2000-5500. There are areas that are $10,000.

Plenty of $2000-2750 hunts in Wyoming in areas that you can draw as a non-resident with zero points.

There are also areas in Wyoming that will take 10 points to draw.

It cost $150 a year to join gohunt.com. It is the best source of understanding points programs. If you use the code Randy (as in Randy Newberg) you'll get $50 of that back in coupons on their site.

I am in my 3rd year of membership, they have helped me understand what I needed. It is not necessary to join, as there are other choices. It just makes the most sense.

Speaking of Randy Newberg, he shows you how to access western hunting on youtube. Including the draws, points, and everything else you need to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
The points programs are broken.

Aaron can probably answer this better than anyone.

All states will take your money, but this may never result in a tag.

You already missed points programs for the year in Nevada, Utah and Arizona (well for elk anyway).

You need to look at Montana and Wyoming.

I wouldn't waste money on points for sheep, goats, bison and moose in the West. Anyone starting today probably needs 20-30 points and point creep will push that to 50 or 70 points by the time they actually award tags.

I wouldn't chase big famous units like Kaibab, Paunsantnaunt or Book Cliffs.

You need to have a big understanding of point creep. Point creep is killing western hunting. As most years the increase in tags needed from year to year is not going up 1 but often 2 and sometimes 3 years worth of points.

I am 45 had 9 points in Wyoming for sheep, and someone showed me how to do the math and I figure I will have to keep buying points until I am in my 90 if at all. Arizona, Utah and Nevada are worse still.

Points are expensive, I'd do the math on what it will take you to draw and find out if it is worth it or not.

These are the only points worth buying: elk, deer and antelope in Montana, elk and antelope in Wyoming, deer and elk in Utah, and elk in Arizona.

Compare outfitted versus long term points cost.

In response to all of the above...I'd say yes and no.

First off...yes one will spend a lot of money each year if they choose to apply for all states / all species like I do, and I think you apply for a lot too correct? No way around it.

I agree with your assessment of staying away from some of the biggest / baddest units if you are just starting out. Its not just the "points", its truly the amount of applicants overall that make it a gross long-shot.

A newbie should always apply for New Mexico & Idaho...neither state has a points system at all for any species, so drawing odds are the same for me and any newbie that comes along tomorrow. Idaho offers the very best odds across the west for all big game "controlled hunt" species, as well as the "Big 3 - Sheep, Moose, Mtn Goat"...one should definitely apply.

Oregon does not have a points system for sheep...so for that species its a good consideration as well. The others suck!

Colorado should absolutely be a state one is starting with to get points...there's plenty of great hunts (elk, deer, antelope) with 2 - 5 points to be had, trust me I hunt them for some big critters. Sheep, goat, moose after 3 years is a "bonus" point situation, so the opportunity to draw is a lot less than those with 19 points now...but still possible.

Wyoming has some decent elk, deer, antelope hunts for lower pointers, and they offer random tags in the drawing for sheep, moose and goat - thus points mean nothing in those cases. If you are not close to max points for the big 3 in WY...do not waste your money on points as they are in fact pref points, not bonus, your only chance is the random draw tags.

Montana has awesome elk hunting in some fabulous areas for 2 - 6 points, and deer / antelope as you mention too. The big 3 are all bonus point programs too...thus lower point guys have a much less chance to draw, albeit not impossible.

I apply for sheep in WA for example because they DO NOT differentiate between res / nos res for the quotas, but not a cheap application opportunity and they work on bonus pts. The "average" points used to draw in 2019 was 14.5 per applicant.

I stick with Nevada because it has incredibly good hunting, and I have a ton of points for most species (I drew a Nevada desert ram tag in 2014) otherwise if I were just starting out, I would likely skip NV all together...too few tags for NR's, compared to the fees and likelihood of success. Deer hunters with 10+ points should not forget the non-res / outfitter draw in NV either.

Arizona is a straight bonus point system for all species, and does offer random tags in the draw too...but odds are long regardless. However, the trophy quality is so good that I'm hard pressed not to recommend it for all species to be honest.

California offers several random desert bighorn tags each year, but unless you have max points this year (18) odds are very long and the fees are not cheap. Even with max points for sheep, odds are long. ELk / Antelope are almost worthless completely, and deer apps can be ok depending on the area / weapon you apply for.

Kansas has virtually 95% chance at drawing whitetail tags, so its always a good choice. Largely private, generally an outfitted hunt is the way to go.

Utah is pretty tough all the way around...but I stick it out cause I have pts. Probably would not start off here now for most species if I were a newbie.

Please Note: This is a very brief / overall analysis, not specific and exceptions apply to every rule.

During pre-application season I probably spend 2-3 hours a day figuring out what to apply for.

Once the quotas drop, I spend less time as I have it mostly figured out. But Wyoming through us for a loop this year on elk, and I ended up changing how I am doing antelope, but I have 7 points.

I don't do this as a profession like Aaron does. I keep Utah and Nevada open because as a civil servant and constantly moving every 2-3 years I might take a job in one of those states. Utah has really strange rules on what residents can apply for, and then what happens if you draw a tag. Not quite as strange for non-residents, but we are only allowed 1 tag (I think that is right) and they have an order of draw.

Idaho is expensive to apply in, as you have to buy an expensive non-resident hunting license to be able to apply. Oregon does the same thing. But! Idaho has no points system.

New Mexico has cheap hunting license and has no points sytems, but our non-resident tags are not cheap. And our quotas here suck, they adjusted it again but I think non-resident unguided is about 6%, might be less than that. If there are less than 14 tags in a unit a non-resident unguided can not draw a tag.

I am burning 5 points on a good cow elk tag in Wyoming to hunt with family, and 7 points on an antelope tag. Should get both tags.

I drew the hardest bear tag in New Mexico, but not sure what is going on with COVID 19. So I might get up there for the end of the season. Find out next weekend what else New Mexico will have for me.

I'll draw Coues and Javelina in Arizona on a military base, as I have enough points.

If I were you I'd pay for access to www.gohunt.com $150, and onx maps $100 a year. This would allow you to understand the draws and figure out the access via a mapping solution that tells you public or private and gives you more information for access.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:
The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Great idea...but states generally do not allow one to start applying until they reach legal age in that particular state to actually partake in the hunt. For example...in Colorado you must be 12 to hunt big game...you also must be 12 by the time fall hunting commences to even apply for a point. Just fyi.

I never understood these age restrictions on hunting. Ky and TN does not have such idiocy. We need young people hunting. I started playing tackle football and boxing at age 8. I killed my first set of squirrels and groundhogs at 4.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
If I were you I'd pay for access to www.gohunt.com $150, and onx maps $100 a year. This would allow you to understand the draws and figure out the access via a mapping solution that tells you public or private and gives you more information for access.

Yep...for the true DIY guy - including the apps, something like gohunt is definitely a good idea. The only thing you lose with said services is "sometimes" some real personal knowledge / experience throughout these states. Places that one can draw / hunt in little known areas, with great hunting opportunities that aren't readily publicized.

We obviously offer our application services simply because many guys have neither the time or desire to figure it all out on their own. As you know, every single state is totally different and it takes a lot of time / work to really familiarize yourself with what's going on. Heck, I hear from guys every year who simply miss out when doing their own apps cause they can't keep up with all the application deadlines. We obviously eliminate that factor.

Onx maps is huge...especially if you are actually coming hunting out west on your own, another good suggestion BWW. I couldn't imagine ever hunting again without it...BaseMaps too offers the same thing. Trespassing is a serious offense in virtually every state...these apps can help eliminate that problem and function totally off-line too.

You are correct in NM...the non-res quota in limited draw areas is 6%. NM also offers the NR outfitter / guide draw which allots 10% of the tags to NR outfitted clients, and the remaining 84% goes into the resident pool.

Aaron’s couple of paragraphs are spot on in my opinion, I used my elk points in Utah several years ago (13 of em ) and didn’t reapply. I have a good many deer and elk points to use in Colorado soon and intend to reapply for the deer.
I like to plan ahead and waiting on the draws doesn’t allow that, so a landowner tag or voucher suits my program better, definitely not cheaper but easier for me to schedule things.
Another big difference is diy or guided and sometimes the ease of drawing, some units that are mostly private and are leased by outfitters are usually easier to draw. Eastern vs Western Colorado deer hunting for example.

I did this for my son as soon as he was old enough to start building points. I started in some states when he was as young as 10, others at 12. As a result he’s already drawn some great tags, and at 32 years old, has a bunch of good tags in his future. He’s got 22 moose & sheep points in Wyoming, plus about a dozen deer, elk, antelope there. Arizona, he has 23 antelope and 21 sheep points, plus deer and elk (he’s already drawn a late Kaibab deer and 2 rut elk tags, killing a big buck and 2 big bulls). Nevada he has like 18 points for Desert & CA bighorns, deer & elk. Drew pronghorn about 5 years ago. Utah, a bunch more points. Oregon & California too.

If you want to draw prime tags for your boys, playing the points game is certainly a way to do it.

I have been doing points for my son the past three years. It is a real pain and odds seem worst than Vegas.We had big plans for this summer. He was going to be with me in Africa for July and August. My hunts have been cancelled but still want to take him even if it is only for a couple of weeks. Wife is saying hell no. Putting in for youth elk in Utah. You can get an over the counter youth Archery for Idaho.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I did this for my son as soon as he was old enough to start building points. I started in some states when he was as young as 10, others at 12. As a result he’s already drawn some great tags, and at 32 years old, has a bunch of good tags in his future. He’s got 22 moose & sheep points in Wyoming, plus about a dozen deer, elk, antelope there. Arizona, he has 23 antelope and 21 sheep points, plus deer and elk (he’s already drawn a late Kaibab deer and 2 rut elk tags, killing a big buck and 2 big bulls). Nevada he has like 18 points for Desert & CA bighorns, deer & elk. Drew pronghorn about 5 years ago. Utah, a bunch more points. Oregon & California too.

If you want to draw prime tags for your boys, playing the points game is certainly a way to do it.

It was, point creep has made it a non-event.

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:
The good Lord has blessed me with two young boys (5 and almost 1) who I help will grow up to be my hunting buddies. While there is still a lot of time until they could undertake a hunt out west, I thought it would be wise to start to accrue bonus points for them since we have the luxury of time.

Has anyone done this? If you were in this position, what would you start to accrue points for? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Separately, consider buying lifetime licenses in states where you can. Especially before your second son turns 1. You can buy the second a lifetime license in GA, and NC for both right now, even as a nonresident. Once he turns one, you can't buy the GA one for him.