Please give me some input. Where we hunt Elk, the shots can be extremely far(300+). Last year I killed my Elk at 484 yards. I used my 300 Win Mag with 180 gr Nosler Partition Golds. This year I am thinking of toting my STW. What bullet do you guys recommend for the STW at these ranges for ELK. I am shooting 2" groups at 300 yards with my handloads of 160 gr. Sierra Boat Tails. Obviously, this is my first choice, but you guys seem to dislike the Sierras for big game. The 160 gr Nosler Partions are not near as tight...more like a 6-7" group. What do you think? Stick with the Sierra's or try something new?
Sorry, but I would use a larger caliber. At those ranges something like a 338 Lapua.
That said use something heavy for caliber that is controlled expansion with a good (+.5) ballistic coefficient. Also verify said bullet provides no worse than 1.5 MOA accuracy at 300 yards.
I cannot believe that someone thinks you need more than an STW to kill elk at over 300, or 400 or 500 yards. That simply blows my mind. Hitting the critter is the key point and I personally go for the most accurate bullet. The partition will simply punch a caliber sized hole through the elk and he may not even give you any indication of a hit (regardless of caliber in my experience). I have had horrible luck with partitions. I have taken several elk with the 140 grain ballistic tip at over 300 yards in 7mm mag. It drops them on the spot and often exits with HUGE holes. I have had this bullet blow up, but they still drop on the spot, due to hydrostatic shock. My preference is 154 or 160 grain Hornady Flat base bullets. I am NOT a premium fan, due to the skimpy holes in game past 200 yards and lack of any hydrostatic shock. I have not tried the X bullets on game, but have some loaded up this year. I would stick with the Sierra and go kill your elk. The bullet only has to get through a couple of inches of hide, muscle and "maybe" a little bone to hit vitals. Believe me, the STW and a 160 grain Sierra will more than deliver the goods. My buddy and I use 160 grain Hornaday AMAX bullets OFTEN on elk sized critters. It is a match bullet and is quite soft, but really destroys the critter, no matter where hit. Go for the sierra a be impressed. Flinch
i do a lot of long rang shooting your stw is fine my self i would use the lost river j 36 bullets in a 160 grain you will love them they shoot great just remember SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE THE NAME OF THE GAME IN ANY GAME SHOOTING BEST OF LUCK
A 280 Ackley with 150 sciroco's put a elk down at 400yards relative easy with proper placement. I know the STW with 160's will hammer them.Any premium 160 will do fine.
I have had very good luck with standard old 150 partitions out of my .280 Rems at both close ranges and out to 400+ yds. In .284" the other one I would try would be the Swift Scirroco. Used them in thirty caliber last year on deer and elk, and they seemed to work very well, but exited, no recovered slugs. The Nosler ballistic tips; the jury is still out. though I must mention that I saw a large cow go down almost immediately from about 300 yds with a 180 BT from a .300 Win mag. Hit in the lungs with a 2" exit hole, I was most impressed. But one shot isn't really a thorough study. Some swear by them, others swear at them on elk.
FN
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
Thanks for all the input! I agree with Flinch 100% about the 338 lapua or whatever. You guys that have experience with the Scirocco, is that bullet actually any better than the Nosler Ballistic Tip?
The scirroco is a bonded core bullet with a very thick jacket on it, whereas the ballistic tip is a form of cup jacket design with a thinner jacket. I wouldn't trust the scirroco to expand at long range. That is the beauty of the ballistic tip. I KNOW they open up well beyond 500 yards. People complain about them blowing up at close range on shoulder shots. Well, if you can't slip a bullet in behind the front shoulder at 50 yards, or whack them in the head, then you have no business packing a tag (IMHO). The lungs are the largest vital target on ANY game animal, so why shoot for the shoulder????? At longer ranges, the ballistic tips REALLY shine, but they are not for everyone. You HAVE to know their limitations. The Sierra bullets are a little stouter than the ballistic tips and the Hornadies are that much stronger than the Sierras in equal weights. They will all get the job done if put them in the proper place. I know guys that hunt elk with .375 HH mags. They lose elk from time to time and can't figure out why, since they are shooting "The" magnum. Large bullet diameter and "energy" will NEVER make up fo POOR shot placement. Flinch
I will check out the Scirocco and the Ballistic tip at 300 yards, just to see if they will group better than the Sierra. Mr. FLINCH, if there was a way for us to meet...I think we would be friends for a long time! You have not stated anything that I disagree with, and I appreciate your experiences you have shared with us. However, thanks to everyone.
Now I now why there are sooo many wounded animals running around in the woods. If you are going to reach out and touch an elk with that 7 you had better practice practice pratice and our rifle had better be a tack driver. In my opinion this type of hunting just provides more ammunition for PETA.
Todd E
[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 01-23-2002).]
I agree "Practice, Practice, Practice." Do you think those 2" groups at 300 yards came overnight? NEGATIVE. And for the record, the gun and I can do better and we have if I do my part. What makes you think your 338 Lapua will perform better in my arms? I have my own shooting range at my own ranch in south Texas with ranges 25, 50, 100, 200 ,and 300 yards, so yes..."practice,practice,practice." I have practiced plenty, I am just asking some opinions on bullet types for this particular round at this range. But, thanks for your input, and by the way, I will think of you and PETA next time I take a 300 yard shot.
Greetings to a Fellow Utahn! Great handle by the way! Gotta disagree on the virtues of a 7mm mag, however and agree with ToddE. Sure, with proper shot placement pretty much anything will kill pretty much anything but IMHO I just think a bit more oomph with at least a .30 or .338 cal x-bullet on elk sized game is warranted. I used to work for a local gun store and was amazed at the number of guys that we would sell 7mm's to before elk season who would trade em in for 300's or 338's after the season ended. Clearly some of you guys have got a system that works for you but I think some guys get the idea that they have a 7mm mag and therefore they can shoot at ridiculous distances without worry. Lots of three legged elk out there because of this!
Best Regards,
JohnTheGreek
Posts: 4697 | Location: North Africa and North America | Registered: 05 July 2001
Let us refer back to Todd E's statement,"Practice,Practice,Practice." Which I firmly believe in! If those guys can't shoot a 7mm accurately...what makes them think they can shoot a 300 or 338 any better?? And by the way, there is nothing rediculous about taking a shot at 300+ yards if that is what you are good at and practice at. Sure, some people dont have the capability of practicing at these distances, but that doesn't give them to right to knock us that do.
Do you shoot in field positions when you print those 2" groups at 300 yards? What kinda rifle are you shooting and what bullet? Those are pretty impressive groups. I wouldn't want to change that load if the bullet if adequate. I find it kinda hard to believe that a marksmen of your caliber truly needs advise on proper bullets.
By the way, if you really are that good. Why put up with all that 7mm STW recoil. You should just use a 22-250 with a monolithic solid boat tailed spire point in the 75 grain ballpark. And shoot that unlucky elk in the head/spine.
Plenty of elk have been killed with 7STWs out to 500yds. Most of the 7STW fans use a premium bullet for elk in the 140-160gr weights. I've heard of excellent results from hunters using Failsafes, BarnesX, Nosler Part, Swift A frames mostly. The 7STW is simply a 7RemMag on steroids. Long range accuracy will depend on alot of factors.
My advice is to work up a load with one of the bullets forementioned, work with it and practice out to 500yds. The Sierra BT may be more accurate but you might be suprised what you can squeeze out of a flat based premium out to 500. I like shoulder shots on elk using stout bullets-less chance of losing one in the timber or to other hunters. sure-shot
I have used the 7 stw to shoot and kill over 100 animals over the last 10 years. I think it is an awesome carteidge. I have shot animals from 10 yards all the way out to 700 yards,(which is not the norm). I have used Nosler partition, Barns X, Swift Aframe,Swift Scirroccos and even Sierra MK. I have found that even with priemium bullets, weights should be at a min of 150 grain bullets. When you deal with the so called super mags penetration can become a problem when a to light of a bullet is used. Even if it is a premium at close range. We tend to expect alot of bullets these days exspecially at high velocity. I tried the Scirroco this year in 150 grains and it performed excellent. Even on an elk at 450 yards. The bullet hit the back of each shoulder and rested on the farside hide. Awesome mushroom and weighed 139 grains after recovery.
Happy Hunting
Posts: 182 | Location: Okotoks, Alberta | Registered: 23 September 2001
By the way, if you really are that good. Why put up with all that 7mm STW recoil. You should just use a 22-250 with a monolithic solid boat tailed spire point in the 75 grain ballpark. And shoot that unlucky elk in the head/spine.
Corey -- There is one bullet you should by all means try in you STW. The North Fork is tough and the most accurate Premium bullet I have ever shot. I shoot a 7mm STW and have a super accurate load with a Barnes XLC 160 gr. bullet, however the North Fork is proving to be by far the most accurate bullet through my .340 Wby and .358 STA. The North Fork has a bonded core lead front and a solid rear, grooved to prevent fouling. The phone number is 307-436-2726.
Well now, so far we have a difference of oppinion on,the ethics of a 300+ yard shot, caliber choice,and the mention of Match Kings. All the ingredients needed for an interesting debate.
For "extreme ranges" I would not pick less than a 338 Win. and I want a big bullet at long range..I think one of the new big 338's would be an ideal rifle for what you suggest...I have gotten by fine with a 338 Win and 210 or 250 gr. Noslers but I don't shoot beyond 400 yds normally....and prefer a lot less..the further you shoot the bigger gun you need I suspect.
Corey, Any premium bullets above 160 (except something like a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or BarnesX, which I think you could get by on 140s or 150s) will do just fine. I'll not doubt your shooting skills, and if you can get a Nosler, BarnesX, TBBC, or even a Ballistic tip to group in that 2" @ 300yds, then I believe you will have your Elk backstraps for dinner at camp that night. Heck, even a Hornady SST would suffice (not a premium) at longer ranges. Just make sure you can put that shot behind the shoulder, if you decide on using a polymer tipped bullet. As far as BarnesX's go, my friend shot an elk this last weekend with a 165grXLC out of his .308 Warbird and had spectacular results. I wouldn't expect anything less from the TBBC as well.
------------------ God Bless and Shoot Straight
Posts: 264 | Location: Big Sky Country, MT | Registered: 12 October 2001
I shot an elk at 325 yards with the 7mm stw and 140 grain nosler ballistic tips. Basically, that was just a stunt, and I do not recommend repeating it.
For a long range elk gun, I suggest considering the 338, 358 norma mag, 375 h&h, 378 weatherby, etc. If you get anything other than a nice broadside shot with that STW, things may not go as you hope.
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
I have been outnumbered on this forum for so long in regards to "premium" bullets, that it is a breath of fresh air to see you guys chiming in. I agree completely that Sierra and Hornady bullets do very well on big game and that the "premiums" lack shocking effect. I have seen the results of both firsthand.
Practice and shot placement is what it is all about, and a reasonable calibre. The 7mm STW is certainly a reasonable caliber. The Sierra 160 SBT should do well, although in the STW you might want to try the 175 SBT.
These virtual-FMJ "premiums" are better for heavy shooting game with a cartridge that is too light. Jack O'Connor said it best, when he stated that bullets that over-penetrate only serve to "crack rocks and blast down trees on the far side".
I have killed several elk with the 7mm stw at ranges from 100 to 250 yards.I used 140 gr partitions and I only recovered one bullet as the rest exited.I would not be scared to use this load out to well over 300 yards.
Posts: 3104 | Location: alberta,canada | Registered: 28 January 2002
I prefer not to shoot at tough animals like elk at ranges over 350 yards with anything. Most of the elk I have killed were at less than 150 yards and any rifle with good bullets and shot placement will take elk to 350 yards from 7x57 up.
While mule deer hunting in Idaho. I saw many guys hunting elk with the big 30s. Upon talking to the top guide his thoughts were most people flinch from the big 30s and cant hit anything past 300yrds. He favored guys shooting any 7 mm up to 300 win mag, no bigger for shots past 300yrds unless they could fire there gun accuratly at the range. He said 34 years of hunting/guideing has shown him this. I asked him what gun he shot, He said most of the elk he killed at long range was done with a 270 that his father had. He now shoots a custom 270 weatherby for long range elk. Before he takes anyone out hunting he takes them to the range to see if they can shoot there gun at 300yrds, this is where he learns if they will be able to shoot at long distance. He says 6 to 7 can't shoot good enough to hunt big game past 300yrds. So no matter what gun you shoot practice, practice, practice. Shot placement more important than caliber.
Opinions...Opinions... I think the question was about bullets in the 7 STW for longer ranges. This was posted by a person who WILL shoot an Elk at these distances. His decision has been made in that respect. I like 160 gr. bullets or heavier for this and am not hung up on any premium in particular. At close range with such high velocity a standard bullet will react much different than at a distance. Keeping this in mind when shooting will avoid the " failed bullet" syndrome. I use Sierras a lot and like them. At times such as long shots, the heavier jacketed bullets work poorly because they don't expand as much as when the shot is close. I hunt Elk with a .338 Win Mag because it works best of what I own. My 7 Mag would work fine as well. WHY???? Because like everyone who truly is a hunter, I take into account the variables that will effect bullet performance on game. There are times not to shoot, and there are times when everything is perfect. The times in between depend heavily on your understanding of how your firearm works and your ability. I would use a bullet of 160-175 gr. that I shoot well. The bullet I would NOT use would be either fragile or a Speer Hot-Core. Most others mentioned would all work.
