Let's stir things up a bit!


1. Most hunters aren�t as good at outdoor craft as they think they are.

2. Most hunters aren�t as good a shot as they think they are.

3. There is too little velocity, and too much velocity; between the low and top end, there are a plethora of calibers that will do the job, if the hunter does his job in placing the bullet.

4. Every change in reloading is a tradeoff.

5. Most bullet �failures� aren�t; it�s probably bad shot placement.

6. Bigger caliber or faster velocity can�t overcome poor marksmanship.

7. The hunter armed with a .243 that he can shoot accurately without flinching, is better equipped than a hunter armed with a .300 RUM that makes him flinch, no matter what the game.

8. If hit right, elk are no harder to kill than any other game animal. If hit poorly, they die hard and run far.

9. Deer or elk poorly hit, take a long time to die; sometimes days, or even weeks.

10. Head shots are foolish.

11. Unless you are close enough to the animal to deafen the beast with the muzzle blast, neck shots are foolish.

12. Long range �hunting�, puts equipment above hunting skills, such as stalking.

13. Long range hunting shows disrespect for the game animal.

14. Most hunters expend too many rounds off the bench, and not enough rounds shooting under actual field conditions; off hand; flat on the belly resting on a rock; kneeling; a tree rest.

15. There is too much emphases on trophy.

16. Sporting goods stores are full of used rifles that shoot accurately, traded by shooters that don�t.

17. Reloading doesn�t save money; it costs money. With cheaper ammo, you tend to shoot more.

18. Reloading is fun.

19. Shooting is fun.

20. Experimenting is fun.

21. Elk is good eating.

22. These days, there is too much emphases on gadgets, and not enough on outdoor skills, such as survival or land navigation.

23. When a hunter gets lost and dies, it�s more than likely a lack of skill killed him.

24. If a hunter can build a fire in pouring rain, he can survive almost anything and anywhere.

25. There is no such thing as an �instant� kill. A game animal hit fatally through the heart, can run for up to 8 seconds after blood circulation to the brain stops. A deer or elk can cover a lot of ground in 8 seconds.

26. Some game animals drop when hit well, others hit equally well, run a distance. The bullet or caliber won�t make a difference.

27. An animal running after a fatal hit, isn�t a sign of bullet failure.

28. Hunters fail more often than their bullets.

29. If you can�t track a wounded animal over most of the terrain found in your hunting area, take lessons from somebody that can.

30. A 100 rounds on the range, for every shot fired at game, should be the minimum practice for every hunter, before every season. Fire the 100 rounds from a variety of positions and at a variety of ranges, known and unknown.

31. No human has an innate sense of direction. There is no substitute for a compass and map, and knowing how to use both.

32. Poachers are hunters, like bank robbers are customers. It pisses me off when we or the media call poachers hunters. They are criminals. Period.

33. Poachers aren�t even unethical hunters; they are criminals. Period.

34. Ethics in hunting has to do with situations like passing a legal shot when there is a chance of wounding and loosing an animal, such as right at sunset.

35. Most hunters carry too much gun.

36. Most hunters take game a lot closer than they estimate.

37. Most hunters can�t estimate distance accurately.

RogerK,
Good post...I think you're right on!!

MG

Yup!

"Undeniable Truths"?

Well, I agree with most of the items on the list, but there is a good bit of opinion and generalization thrown in!

I suppose we will never see the end of some hunters that insist on judging other hunters by their own personal yardstick that has been tainted with preconceived notions, old wives tales and superstition! Most judgemental hunters never stop to think for even one minute that not everyone lives where they live or hunts under the conditions that they hunt?

Just because it doesn't fall in line with my/your/our idea of how things ought to be doesn't necessarily make it wrong!

Rogerk
Reckon you nailed most of them there alright,

Regards Roebuck

#21....I'm afraid I have to agree if talking about an old trophy bull, but nice fat cow???? That's a different matter!

I agree with just about everything you said. I do think some of them are easily deniable, particularly 13 & 34.

-Lou

#1&2. Come see me in the swamp.
#7. He's better off with a .30-30 or a shotgun if he can't hanldle his RUM.
#11. 'tain't exactly like that my friend.
#12. It tests other skills, what's your point?
#23. I thought that was self evident. Maybe not to the deceased.
#25. They don't last nearly that long without brains.
#30. Arbitrary and without merit. Nothing against practice but...
#34. That's prime time fella, at least for white tails. It helps if you know what you're about before the fact.
#35&36. I don't.
#37. I can. Been years since I took a shot at a deer more than 15 yards away. It's not hard to figure drop and drift at that range.

I recognize the spirit of your post but think perhaps your litmus is a bit...narrow in view. Have I stirrrrrred enough?

Add #38: Hunting success is inversely proportional to the number of ATV's in your camp.

12a. and 13a. Taking game at long distance isn't hunting. It's killing.

For the most part I agree, but I feel I need to deny a couple of your undeniable truths:
12 and 13. A definite prejudice against long range hunting. But if someone puts forth the time, money, and practice into a long range rifle, I see no problem. I feel a better statement would be:
A person who take a shot that themself or the conditions make the shot risky shows disrespect for the animal.
That may be a shot taken without practice, a long shot on a windy day, a 75 yard shot offhand, etc.

15. I would like to see more emphasis on trophy (I'm not talking about ranches where they grow alot of big and dumb animals). I dare promise that anyone who dedicates themself to a all or nothing trophy hunting, and puts the time, effort, and money into this effort for three years, will learn more and gain a greater respect for the animal than in all of their previous hunting years combined. It's quite a feeling to see some big animal gracing the cover of a gun rag, and knowing that the buck you passed up was bigger than that one.

OK, I'll shut up now.
Good Shooting

Well Said Roger!!!

cheers and good shooting
seafire

Re: #11
I'll take a neck shot anytime. Because I can and I eat what I kill.
Re: #25
See above.
Most of the rest is right on.
Russ

RogerK- GREAT POST!

#39- Most hunter's don't properly sight in their rifles.

I agree in principle with most of it. Substitute .270 for .243 in #7 and I am onboard.

And for #12 and #13, define "long range". Is it 400 yds? 500 yds? 1000 yds? My personal limit is 400 with a good solid rest and the right rifle. I am more comfortable at 300. This is based in experience not guesswork or optimism.

#17. I'll have to deny you this statement. I will give you that if you shoot cheap bullets you may have to shoot more, even if you hit the animal properly, but that is your choice. I can and do reload better quality bullets for much less that what I would have to pay for them at the store. I shoot Weatherby calibers mosty, but the same holds true for any caliber. As you state in #18, reloading is fun, but reloading in and of itself is not the point. At least it is not with me.



#10. Head shots are foolish. But when properly administered, they really work.



#7. This is true with any caliber and any shooter. What you don't state here is that most people can't properly shoot a .243 either...poor shooting is not restricted to .300 RUMs or any other caliber. Chances are that the person who cannot shoot a .30-06 or .270 properly probably cannot shoot anything else properly, including something like a .243. Chances are that the shooter who masters a .30-06 or .338 Win Mag can probably shoot any rifle well enough to get by under hunting conditions.



Your comment makes it sound like people are better hunters or even better riflemen if they shoot little rifles. That's not true.



If you shot a brown bear or moose with a little rifle, even at very close range, you definately would hurt the animal and maybe even kill him sooner or later. But the first thing you would do is piss him off. There are plenty of hunting environments where you should carry and it is your responsibility to carry the biggest rifle that you can shoot...and you should not put yourself in a position where you have to use it at close range. In this environment if the biggest rifle that you can shoot is a .243, then you will need to bring an armed adult along with you.



What many people do not overcome is the fact that shooting any rifle really well, including medium or large bore rifles, simply requires practice.

CliftonClowers: It is all killing. But some of us live and hunt in bigger places with more space, and some of us live in smaller places, where everything is close by. Getting close to what you want to shoot can be and is a relative measure of distance.

Cheap bullets; premium bullets. There ain't no magic bullets. A fellow is better off putting a cheap bullet where it belongs than a guy that thinks his high priced "stuff" is gonna carry the day and shoots for the big middle.
I do agree that there are as many shooters of .243's that can't shoot worth a $hit as there are magnum shooters. It seems to be a modern conception that if you shoot a mag, you flinch, jerk, blink, etc. And if you shoot say a .243, you are some sort of cool hand, dead eyed dude. That doesn't conform to what I've seen.

Nope, wrong, all of them.

beemanbeme: I think you have a right to your opinion, but I cannot agree with it. There are lots of people who hunt lots of different types of animals all over the world, and I will tell you that if the cheapest bullets on the market worked (read killed) as well as Nosler Partions, or Barnes X, or Swift A-Frames, and other bullets of similar strength, these stronger bullets would not exist. There is nothing magic about it: its physics. I doubt that any truely serious hunter would argue that bullet construction is an insignificant or inconsequential part of quickly killing an animal. Once you have the right tools, including the right bullets, then you must learn how to use the weapon properly, which also includes placing the shot where you want to hit the animal....you should be able to destroy vital organs from any angle.

As far as markmanship or being a good rifleman, I think that a person who has mastered a .375 H&H is a better alround rifleman than a person that has only mastered a .243. But there is a functional element here as well: if you never need to hunt with a .375, then there is probably no reason that you should learn to shoot one. But I rarely hear medium or large bore shooters bad mouth people who shoot .243s ( I bet because they like shooting .243s)...but I frequently hear people who do not or cannot shoot medium bore or larger rifles bad mouth those larger calibers.