the hunts sold at the s.c.i. auction are 2nd quality hunts. many donations are given thru s.c.i. pressuring outfitters to make donations they do not want to make or can not afford to make.

s.c.i. does not even stand behind the quality of the hunt or that the hunt will even take place, and does not care what happens after they get paid. once they have your $, thats it. if u read the fine print at the bottom of the hunt auction receipt u will understand. they do not protect the buyer, they protect themselves. nice way to treat their members. they rely that they are out of state from u and your recourse is limited. buyer be ware. u are better off going to the outfitter direct and if u wish to negotiate, do so. u can try the F.N.A.W.S. or G.O.A.B.C. auctions, which are better. donations are made there with pride and an open hart.

cold zero

who bought many auctioned hunts from s.c.i. and should have learned sooner. don't get burned.

I have looked over the offerings many times on different SCI chapter auctions. Some hunts are good ones and all is included but your travel arrangements. Some, however, have a zillion other things you have to pay for and will put you in the poor house if you are not careful. Some include nearly nothing but look like they are inclusive.

One must be careful, for sure. Not everything will be a "bargain". Few of the hunts offered by the Flint Chapter go cheap. I've ssen people pay more that the listed value there once the bidding gets going.

I can't speak for hunts offered at the National.

Sorry you had a bad exp. cold, but I know alot of guys, me being one, who buy hunts @ SCI all of the time & have been happy. It's like anything else, buyer beware. Also, some SCI chapters DO back their doanted hunts by checking out the outfitter, etc.

I also know a lot of people who have bought hunts at the national convention and local chapters who have been happy. FWIW, at the national level SCI sends a hunt report form to the auction winner for feedback from the hunter. If they get a few negative reports from the hunters, they won't deal with the outfitters any more.
I've also donated hunts at the national level as well as a local chapter. All of them were first rate. It's too bad you have such a negative attitude toward SCI.

There may be good deals on SCI auction hunts but I have not found one. Generally I find better deals out on the show floor. Further, the "value' listed for such hunts often exceeds actual retail price by 50-100%!

The auction mania phenomena seems to take over on SCI auctions and price things way beyond reason. Same for product auctions.

Having purchased 3 different hunts at national and chapter SCI programs, I would not hesitate to buy another. One was a deer hunt in SC and the other two were for African safaris. They send out auction previews months in advance, and most places now have web sites. I encourage you to take the time, call or email and ask questions just as you would in talking with them at the show. Contact their references and ask for some other names as well. Do your homework, and you can find good deals.

I will never again get into a bidding frenzy and purchase something that I hadn't spent ample time researching. I did that at the RMEF banquet in SLC one year and the bear hunt didn't live up to expectations. What's that saying "Fool me once.."

Brad

Having purchased a few of these hunts I have a couple of things to say.

Frist is do your research. Check out the outfitter, preferably talk to them in person if they are exhibiting. If not a phone call is in order. Check out their web sites if they have one. Find out what the normal asking price for the hunt in question is.

Second, Check out the written description of the hunt. Make sure you know is and isnt included.

Third, Set your upper limit based on the information you have gathered. Dont go over it, unless you are looking to donate money.

Some hunts may look like a good deal but really are not when everything is added in. Look at what trophy fees are included. How many additional days will be needed to be purchased? Charter and other transportation costs must also be considered. There are some really great donated hunts out there. There are others that are more along the lines of the initial post. As long as you do what you need to all will be well.

Have a great time researching and planning. Just dont get caught up in the excitement of the auction without having all the facts.

I bought a great hunt thru my local chapter,total price smoked everything I have seen advertised, I hope you will reconsider your view as SCI is working for us all.

Cold Zero--sorry to hear about your misfortunes at SCI-perhaps you could enlighten us a bit about the hunts you've personally bought and been hosed on?

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

fred 338;
isn't it sad when the local chapter with a much smaller budget stands behind the hunts they sell better than the national h.q. with a much bigger budget? my post was referring to nat' convention hunts. i have no experience with local chapter donated hunts and would expect those to be better. typically those are donations that are made with an open hart and not a twisted arm.

alasken;
i have filled out the hunt auction report u mentioned, negatively and they still sell the same outfitters hunt the next year. if they got neg' reports every year, i still think they would sell it anyway. they are that hungry for the income and not buyer satisfaction. as for my neg opinion. it was formed over a period of years, based on the purchase of many auctioned hunts, purchased by me. when i get ripped off repeatedly for 4 and 5 figure hunts, who wouldn't be burned? i bought enough of these hunts to be one of their patrons club members. there are less than 100 of these in a club with 35,000 members. so i think i have based this on adequate experience with the auction dept. meanwhile i love and support my local chapter. i am glad you had a good experience with them but i would not want to see another member get taken for a ride the way they do with so many people and keep it quiet.

as for some bad hunts from s.c.i., a few examples

a nebraska outfitter who donated a $750 bird hunt, i pd $750 he said there are no birds this year, next year no birds give me another $750 and come deer hunting we did, neither one of us saw even a doe in the 3 days. he wanted more $, we left. no birds, no deer, another scam.

$13k newfoundland hunt for blk bear, moose, caribou. never saw any moose or blk. bear for that matter. saw one small caribou and took it. pd. outfitter $2k more spent another week no moose and no blk bear seen. this was during moose rut too. didn't see any zebra either, get the idea. saw hundreds of local hunters though. they advertised a marquis name outfitter in the auction description then gave us an outfitter no one ever heard of. thats bait and switch in my state and is illegal.

like said above the advertised prices for value are often inflated to make the donation look more valuable than it really is. just one of the games being played by s.c.i.

bought $8k desert mule deer and coes deer and peccorary combo in sonora. of the 4 guys that hunted the ranch all 4 saw no coes deer or peccorary one guy saw one muley and shot it. not a good record for the group. the beautiful ranch house accomodations had no heat, no hot water, no running water, broken windows, no sheets on the bed and did not say "bring a sleeping bag", basically froze (0 degrees ovenite) and starved. oh yeah, i almost forgot, the ranch was growing drugs and the mexican army and federalis raided the ranch and detained us at gun point. i think my friend shit himself. next day, 3 of the 4 guys left camp. s.c.i. checked this operation out throughly, i'm sure. i have a nice photo of my friend who is sleeping on a bare mattress with his loaded gun right next to him with all his hunting clothes on. great trip.

next

coues deer hunt in mexico $3k. outfitter refuses to honor his donation or provide the trip. of course they gave this same outfitter a booth the following year, $. asks me to reschedule the trip 3x's in a 4 week time frame. spent $2,200 on 3 airline tickets and lost almost all of it due to no notice to cancel my reservation. outfitter never applied for my gun permit or hunting lic. same outfitter featured in may 2003 hunting report had kept the $ from a whole bunch of other guys. did i rec' a prompt refund? no. they told me to reschedule.

i think i am starting to exceed the bandwith here, but i think now u get the idea. these were not bargain hunts, almost all were bought at full value that was advertised by s.c.i., which was inflated anyway. nice way to support the club, charge the members more for the hunt you donate than u could pay for it if u walked up to the booth and rec' a better quality hunt.

go to sat' nite auction $100/plate then told we ran short of dinners and no food for u two. refund for dinner? got the run around instead. i did bid up to $35k on the marco polo hunt though and lost. it went over face value.

unfortunately, i did not wise up sooner. i know i am not the only one to have problems and buyers should be advised.

cold zero

did anyone read the fine print at the bottom of the hunt auction receipt that you don't get to read until after u already purchased?

I use to do SCI shows i quit because of the BS.The members kept the good prizes themselves.I saw a couple of Weatherbys given to them they never made it to auctions.They laughed about some of the trips and hunts they auctioned off.I quit when a booth was $2500 it was not worth it to try to do shows then.I saw the head guy sneak a Weatherby 30-378 Accumark given to them by a gun dealer he too it home himself.The trips they auctioned off were crap hunts mostly .They made their money from the booths mostly .I worked my butt off to bring the stuff I tried to sell at the show.The SCI members never bough anything but love to get drunk and go through you stuff.They had Trophy wives and bought trophies in pens.I quit doing the shows after three years it didnt take long to see their little game they played.I want to see if this post!

Cold Zero, I have seen your posts before, and have always wondered what is on the flip side of the coin you toss out. Seems like you tend to have a bad time. The common link may be something different than the outfitters or guides.

I find it odd when people are trying to get a "deal" and then have the expectation that everything will be first class and no problems or issues. The only time I offer deals in my business (not related to hunting)is when we have left overs or odd stock. And thats what they really are.. odd stuff that may do for odd jobs. If you want a good hunt with a good outfitter you may just want to try doing some research and then based on good judgement PAY for it and go have fun. Don't buy odd lot stuff and then expect the best. SCI is not the issue here. There may be some bad eggs, but then its a rather large organization. Seems like some are ready to toss out the baby with the bathwater.

dgr416;
it seems to me he has a firm grasp of what goes on there. like me his opinion was formed from several trips to the convention. i told u i am not the only one with this conclusion.

lundboat;
i don't know about getting a deal part because all of the hunts i bought were bought at the advertised full face value of the hunt, hence no savings. i thought i made that clear above. the reason the hunts sold at full face was because they were quality outfitters, with good reputations. for example, the last hunt i bought for coes deer that outfitter took a high 140's buck the previous year, he was featured in an article in the last b.c. records book. i did check him out with 3 different clubs and found no neg' info on him. i don't have a crystal ball, was i suppose to know that he would go out of business and keep everyone $?

The newfoundland hunt $13k/for 2, yeah that sounds like a bargain hunt. was i suppose to know that they would switch the advertised outfitter for one with no reputation? i would not have bought the hunt then. the outfitter was the sole reason i bought the hunt. yes, i did ask for a refund when the switch was made, good luck trying to accomplish that with them. for what we paid, we could have went with any outfitter on the whole island. we tried to support the club with our $ and we could have went to the booth and paid the same price.

how many people do u know spend over the $10k minimum at the s.c.i. auction to qualify for patron's club membership? not many i'll bet. i can say that many hunts that i bid on and did not purchase went for more $ because i bid the price up, putting many $ in the clubs account. how many people do u think were bidding on the $37k marco polo hunt? i could fit them in a phone booth. yeah $35k for marco polo sheep yeah that sounds like another bargain. most of these hunts go $27-30k, i do my research and have the experience to know what i am talking about, do u.

i have membership with s.c.i., n.r.a., f.n.a.w.s., g.o.a.b.c., n. american hunting club and subscribe to the hunting report as well as actively posting on several related hunting web sites. if you can think of another way to check potential outfitter out then u are smarter than i. you must make a lot of $ in the stock market with your ability to predict the future. all we wanted was a decent hunt, is that too much to ask. at least u agree with me about the hunts being 2nd class, with your limited experience thats better than nothing. many people don't know this, we did not. it took time to figure it out.

as far as my problems with outfitters go, who has not had a problem with one? the last 3 hunts i went on were bought from the outfitters directly at full price. i took animals with 2 of the 3 outfitters and are likely to hunt with them again. i referred 3 customers to one of the outfitters in the 2003 season, some $22k worth of business. when i have a good time i reccomend the outfitter, when i don't, i don't keep it a secret. by the way, i did not take an animal with that outfitter.

i am getting better at selecting the outfitters, hence my recent good experinces. that comes with time and experience. the learning curve is steep and the mistakes can be expensive.

have u read the fine print i referred to above? i'll bet that if the buyers read the fine print before the purchase as it should be, many bidders would not bid.

just because my experience was diff' than yours, does that make me wrong? i'm glad yours hunts were good. many of them are not and forums and clubs exist to let the traveling hunter know. we didnot know these are as u say odd lot hunts , now we know. we wish someone would have tipped us off, it would have saved a lot of aggravation, time and $.

cold zero

In fairness cold, I don't doubt alot of BS goes on w/ various groups. If I catch wind my local chapter is doing such thingd, bang, I'm out. Alot of guys get screwed on the hunts they book themselves, not thru SCI. It's always know what your buying. I won't bid on a hunt unless I get some feedback from other guys who have been & have no stake in the outcome.

Coldzero:

I'm not likely to buy a SCI hunt, I'm a sometime member of the Dallas Safari Club (not as of today) but I would like to read the disclaimer at the bottom of the donated hunt contract if you can post it somehow. Thanks.

My policy is:

When I hear the first Auction item being announced, I head for the door, and bid them all goodnight.

I'm absolutely not interested in the auction.

SCI booth for $2,500?? The last time I was there (2 years ago) it was $1,750. I see now it's $1,850. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what dgr says.

Being involved as a guide/outfitter I will say I enjoyed the chapter level a lot more. The local chapters do more to support their donors. I went to the Kansas City chapter for more than ten years. I got a lot of business from the members there because I was there supporting them. I didn't see that at the national convention. I booked some hunts there, but it wasn't because I was a donor. I also met some great people in KC, and had a hell of a good time at their fundraiser.

The Weatherby Accumark 30-378 was stuck under the table and I saw the same guy stick it in his truck.It was not the Reno show but the Atlanta show.I got a booth for three years at that show .The SCI members came after the show was over so the could drink and eat.Then they would go through the booths after the show was supose to be closed and go through the booths druck as a skunk.I saw what was happing and I loaded my stuff up and brought it back the next day.There was supose to be no one in the exibits after the show was over.I said forget this after two drunks went through my stuff and the guys nextdoor.There were no people coming to the shows.It was a big joke.The room in which the show was supose to be looked like a big bedroom instead of a show room.The guys who came from Africa were really pissed.It was the biggest joke of a so called hunting show I had ever seen.The SCI show finally got moved to a bigger place for one year.The gun dealer who gave the Weatherby 30-378 Accumark never did the show again after they found out that the rifle they gave was taken by a SCI member for themselves.I saw alot of other stuff bad going on also.The prizes that were not auctioned off were put into a super auction guess who won them the same guy that got the rifle.He got 5 hunts and made good on all of them.

I have been a committe member for a National level organization that I will not mention here. The yearly banquets are held to make money period. Guys and gals go to them to have a good time with friends and hopefully win something or get a good deal. Good deals do go to the organizers that is for certain. Some I think are warranted since the volunteers do put in a lot of time. Some of it is unethical. I have seen guys donate a gun worth say $1000.00 and get a tax deduction. Then they do a rafle for the gun say selling 250 tickets for $10.00 each. The guy who donates the gun get $1000.00 and remaining goes to the organization. I have even seen guys do this with old paintings that they have had in their house and were tired of. A lot of companies give good deals Leupold for one. I would see orders for ten scopes when only 5 went to the banquet. We used to also solicite for hunts. Usually the good outfitters that were booked up rarely donated hunts. Sometimes they would give us a slight discount. We would hope that during the aution we would exceed our price so that we could make a $. If the price went up it would often times be more than the hunter could get on his own. Most smart guys new that and were content with what they got knowing that the money was for a good cause. Guys that went for the deal were usually disappoited as some here have mentioned. It all boils down to integrity. If you have a good group of honest people running the banquets you are probably Ok. If not be prepared to get ripped off it may happen.

I think the points Mike Smith and Ann make summed it up quite well. I've purchased five items at auction following the very advice they listed and have been quite pleased. I also make it a win-win for the donor by adding a couple days and/or paying for additional trophies.

My loyalty applies to the local chapters of SCI. They are a good place for those of us who have gotten so much out of hunting to to put something back in.

The hunt donations and auctions are a very necessary part of the local chapters ability to raise funds. How else are the chapters going to raise funds for projects they do? Bingo? Carnivals? And is there somewhere else where Outfitters and PH's are going to tap into a pool of potential clients besides SCI? If there was such a place, they would be there. And there are no other events in my area that bring in Outfitters and PH's from around the world for me to go to either.

Most chapters could use more worker bees. I suspect that most people have no idea what is involved in putting on such a weekend fundraising event. Perhaps those of you with such complaints need to start donating your time. Your assistance in making the situation better will be appreciated.

Sounds as if you've been burned on several occasions.

You're not a real fast learner, is ya?

i don't doubt that the chapter hunts are superior. as stated above i have no experience with that. unfortunately, my chapter doesnt auction hunts.

cold zero

Well come to ours, Detroit isnt that far.

I have only purchased one hunt to date from SCI, and that was at a local banquet. A very negative experience, but I have learned from it immensely. (SCI does not stand behind the hunts at all! You are buying from the PH / Outfitter only, and are dependant on his honesty and integrity.)

I just returned from the national where I was very interested in 6 differnt hunts. I did my homework, talking with each PH before the auction. From this info I decided not to even bid on 4 of the hunts. (One of the most common problems was listing that a hunt could be booked during a certain time period, say Feb - August 2004, and then finding out that they only actually had an opening for one specific date - like the first three days in Feb. If you couldn't come on that date they wouldn't honor the donation.) I did bid on the other two hunts, but did not buy either. One sold for way over value, and on the other hunt I was the second highest bidder. I'm still not sure if I made a mistake not buying that hunt, but it was a high dollar hunt, and I am still a bit gunshy from the earlier SCI debacle. I wish I had the reciept language available to post. It is indeed an eye opener.
Good Luck to all who purchased hunts. I'll support SCI, but I am very skeptical of most hunt donations.

Bill

So far I have not had a problem. I am either doing something right or am just lucky. I will take both, especially the latter. The language is in fact an eye opener if you havnt read it in advance. Also the integrity of the outfitter is important. It goes along with the homework thing. Sounds like you did it right at national. Like most things one needs to be carefull. The reason for the language on the SCI contract is simple. A lot of the good vs bad on a hunt is very subjective and open to wide interpretation. It does protect SCI not the buyer. That is where checking out the donor is important. There are still good deals and great hunts out there. I never said it wasnt work to find them. Usually the chapter events are the best deals in my opinion. I am sorry you had a negative experience. Sounds like you learned from it though. It dosnt look like one bad experience soured you on the whole thing though.

guess i was right about this scam as there were plenty of other people that also had bad experiences with sci and their auctions at the national level.

cold zero

The Atlanta Show is a Chapter event and has nothing at all to do with SCI. SCI allows for Chapters that are independent and, unlike RMEF, DU and others, the money is not all whisked away the night of the event to Corporate Headquarters, never to be seen again. SCI Chapters keep 70% of the NET to do whatever they would like with it. Locally.

You people confusing the two are all wrong and misinformed. It makes me wonder what else you are misinformed about.

I'll have to say that I was entirely satisfied with the safari that I got at an SCI chapter auction.

Namibia, 7 days, Including 1 Gemsbok.

$750.

Of course, I spent a lot more in extra days, additional observer (my son),trophy fees (including leopard)...

Rick.