I was reading some Jack O'Connor last night, the book "The Art of Hunting Big Game in North America". Funny how a 30 year old book has the same arguments and information that we read today in the hunting rags, forums, etc.
After reading the chapter on "Elk and Moose Medicine" I come away with a new sense of respect for Two things. First Jack as a rifleman, one not afraid to tell of his mistakes. Secondly for the .270win (who didn't see that comming! LOL) Seriously though Jacks load of 150gr Nosler Partition over 58.5gr of H4831 is 3.5 gr over book max in Nosler#4 manual! Jack was getting 2950 fps from his 22" tube, I'm betting I can reach 3,000 fps with my Custom 26" tube, with a safer load to boot. Maybe I can use this rifle on bigger game with confidence and carefull shot placement. Who'da thunk it!

Mark, ALL of O'Connor's books and magazine articles make for an excellent read, and you're right, many of same controversies and arguments take place today about essentially the same subjects.

I should add that Jack's 4831 loads for the .270 Winchester (plus other cartridges) were with the old WWII surplus 4831. Modern H4831 is a little bit hotter, and IMR4831 is hotter yet. Start several grains lower than O'Connor's listed loads and work up carefully. Most rifles will show high pressure signs with less powder using the current propellants, so be careful.

AD

I agree that Jack's observations about elk and moose hunting are as valid today as they were in the middle of the last century, but after all, the elk and moose haven't changed, have they?

In regard to Jack's load of 4831, remember that he was using original surplus 4831, not the currently manufactured IMR- or H- varieties, both of which are faster burning than the original. I have a quantity of the original surplus 4831, which is just as good as the day it was manufactured, and it is actually almost as slow (usually about one grain faster) as IMR 7828. Still-- remember that each rifle is an individual. My Sako .270 happens to top out with 58.5 grains of surplus 4831 behind a 130 grain bullet (3200 fps). If you want the best velocities with a 150, I suggest you try IMR-7828 using Jack's recommendations as a guide (but start lower and work up, as always).

O'conner was an educated and fairly intellectual hunter/writer. You don't find those very frequently these days.

Allen, thanks for the heads up on the surplus 4831, I had heard that before and forgotten it while reading.
I haven't heard much from you in a while on the boards (AR,HA) Have you been away hunting? Our deer season (Archery) starts here in VA this weekend. I am very psyched up for it. Been seeing a Lot of good buck sign and numbers of deer. Seems we have an unussual amount of Bear in the areas I hunt as well, things are look'n up.
Thanks again.

Also, lets here some commentary about the use of the .277 150gr Nosler Partition at 3,000 fps or so on large heavy game, ie: Moose, Elk, Black Bear, etc.
My Point Blank Calc. shows
Range Vel. Energy
Muzzle 3000 2997
100 2803 2617
200 2615 2278
300 2435 1974

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[ 10-02-2002, 19:27: Message edited by: Mark G ]

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[ 10-02-2002, 19:28: Message edited by: Mark G ]

Whether you love or hate O'Connor, you have to admit he could write. Most gunwriters these days just can't. Okie John.

God, I do miss that man.

I've got an old O'Connor book of my dad's, a collection of his articles, I believe. I reread the article on hunting brown bear on Admiralty Island in SE Alaska after my first season hunting there. And what do I see but a picture of Jack glassing from my favorite vantage point!

To me that spot will always be Jack O'Connor rock.

O'Conner, Ruark, Annabel.....................before, during, or after a hunt or whatever.........just gets in your blood. I took J.A.Hunter with me into the Brooks Range this season............read a couple for the umpteenth time, but it was as good as the first time.

Joe

Just for fun I'll relate my experience with JO'C's 270 load. For a number of years I shot Jack's 130gr. load out of my 270featherweight(22ins. long)--a 130gr. bullet/62grs. of surplus 4831. this load killed everythink very dead including the frist four elk I got in Idaho. Then I bought a chronograph. Guess what, my load checked out at 2980fps! I didn't believe it and sought out two other guys with machines, Also got it checked by a friend at Speer. One said slightly more and the other said slightly less, Speer's was within 10fps. of mine.
Since then I have replaced the featherweight barrel with a "like new" standardweight barrel(24ins. long) and get a full 3140fps. with the 130s and IMR4350. Still can't tell any difference in the way it kills animals. Pete

I only have one book by O'Connor, "The Big Game Rifle". I am very interested in reading more of his work.

Anyway, I love Pre-64 Winchester M70's (I have a few in a good variety of calibers) and that is what I mostly hunt with. I went deer hunting this past weekend not too far from my home in Southern California. I took my Pre-64 M70 in .270 and I was shooting a 130 grain Nosler Partition at about 3,120 fps.

Now, the .270 is about the lightest rifle I hunt with, but I think it is just about the best round you can use for deer. Anyway, while hunting for deer, I came across a black bear that weighed approx. 350lbs. (he seemed a lot bigger when he was walking towards me) and since I alway buy a California bear tag (they only cost about $18.00) I decided that I would have a go at him with my .270 Win. At about 50-60 yards, he realised something was up and he stood still and faced me. I put the first shot through his chest, just below his chin, and the 130 grain Nosler exited just by his testicles due to the angle. Within a second or two, I put another shot through both lungs when he gave me a brief broadside shot. The 2nd shot also gave full penetration. That bear went down within 10 feet of where I shot him the first time and it was over very quickly.

I was absolutely impressed with the killing power and penetration of the .270 Win loaded with 130 Nosler Partitions at 3,100+ fps. The only other animal I have taken with the .270 was a California blacktail deer that I shot at about 30 yards with a 130 grain Hornady SST. The deer dropped in its tracks and seemed to be dead before he hit the ground, but the SST did not exit.

Now, I typically subscribe to the Elmer Keith way of thinking and carry a 300 Win Mag as my light rifle. I also do a lot of shooting with my 458 WM, 416 Rigby, 375H&H, 338 WM, 300 WM, 300H&H, etc. In fact, the last time I went wild boar hunting with Kyler Hamann in Paso Robles, CA, I shot my pig with a 375H&H. Also, most of the time I shoot the heavy for caliber bullets as well.

Even though I usually believe in the "hit them with a bigger hammer" theory, I was very impressed with the .270 Winchester and I bet it would be absolutely deadly on elk, moose, etc. when loaded with a premium 150 grain bullet and placed in the vital area of the game you are hunting.

I have read quite a bit of Jack's articles and books and l agree with the comment that he was one of the better writers. His views on shot placement, caliber and methods of hunting are as valid today as they were then.

I often wondered why Winchester did not produce a commemorative bolt rifle in recognition of a man who was a loyal pre-64 model 70 user. I read an article shortly after his passing that it would be a good tribute if Winchester produced a bolt actioned 270 caliber in a pre-64 version and called it the 27 O'Connor.

I use the 270 on deer, elk, bear, caribou and moose and load the 150 gr. Nosler Partition bullet and it has never let me down. Excellent caliber.

Thanks for bringing this up and good shooting.

O'Connor seemed to be the premier gun writer of his era. I have read most of his stuff and have three of his books.

Somehow when I read those magazine articles then I just had to skim over the story and find out what cartridge was used. Back then there (1950's) there was not nearly as much published. We had Outdoor Life, Field & Stream (Warren Page), Sports Afield (Pete Brown) and the Rifleman. Keith, Ackley and others wrote for the Rifleman.

Those only came out once a month. Today I would guess there is 50 times as much information published when you count the internet.

To me Col. Townsend Whelan was my hero as a genuine American Rifleman. He could describe events in the field with great color, was very technical and precise but most of all he was a marksman. I am not saying he was a better shot than some others but things really have gone downhill with the advent of Roy Weatherby. While I admire Weatherby's skill as a promoter his contribution has taken us backwards.

I don't blame Weatherby at all. He did what he did best. It's the lack of a hero since Whelan who put the skill of the rifleman ahead of the rifle.

I think "The Big Game Rifle" sums up what O'Connor had to say. Most of his later books repeat what was in TBGR without adding much except information on whatever was new at the time. Actually, in some of the later ones he sounds irritated, maybe because he was having to repeat himself to earn a living. Still, though, if you look at the rifles we use today, they are mostly what he told us to use in TBGR. Okie John.

Hi Folks,
Just a few thoughts on ".270 Jack." I first read his articles back in the mid 70s while going thru my uncle's Outdoor Life Collection. Even as an uneducated, wet behind the ears kid I was impressed by his work. Later I read more of his stuff, learned more about the man and bought my very own .270 ( a round I still love to this day). He was truly one of the last of a dying breed-- the academic outdoorsman.
Based on my recent experience with college professors, men of O'Connor's kind are now as extinct as the brontosaurus. Instead of writing about thrilling sheep hunts or beautiful mountain sunsets, todays academicians prefer to confine their writings to the merits of socialist feminism ( I was forced to sit thru one of these gruelling lectures last Tuesday) or circulate petitions reviling the actions of the president.
Just this morning a professor invited me to sign such a thing calling on Mr. Bush to let the UN handle Iraq and stop his "Imperialistic" policies. When I declined and voiced my support for Bush she replied, "Oh, You are one of 'those' people."
I am glad I am one of "those" people who can think for himself and not be one of the politically correct sheeple. I only wish I could have been fortunate enough to have been one of old Jack's students and I am glad that the grand old scholar is not alive to see the state of higher education in the brave new century. The degradation of his profession would likely kill him.

Good Shooting,
HBB

I'm fifty something and Jack is one my chldhood hero's who had a huge impact on my hunting and shooting skills/preferences. A few months ago I came home and my wife had Jack's "The Big Game Rifle" sitting on the pillow in the bed room - I almost wanted to cry - the book really shows are far we haven't come since the 1950's and 60's.

But I recently acquired a copy of Jack Atcheson's book - forget the title(also part of being fifty something) - and it is also a classic - he has his own Montana style of writing and its a gem of a book - fantastic photos to boot - combination of short and long stories - but the story I will always remember in this book is "Jack O'Connors Last Hunt" - Thanks to Jack Atcheson for preserving this story - sort of my vision of heaven - read it you will understand. To get a copy of this book use this address - I had the book in a week - great Christmas gift for someone.

The cost of a book is $19.95 plus $5.40 (1st class) or $1.84 (book rate). 406-782-2382. or atchesons@in-tch.com - ask for Connie

I have 2 or 3 books that Jack wrote and used to look forward to reading Outdoor Life every month. Just recently I tried an old load of his with a 150 gr bullet in a 30-06 pre 64. It chronographed right on.
I just got a pre 64 270 at a gun show not long ago and I'm looking forward to shooting it.The rifle wasn't much to look at especially the stock but I had a spare pre 64 stock and I'm having it glass bedded. The bore looks real good and with most of these rifles it's been carried alot and shot very little.
I'm going to load Jack's load with 4831 and 130 gr bullets but I want to try the 160gr Noslers also. It will be interesting to chronograph the 130's.
rifleman 1, thanks for the post. That sounds like a nice book.
Terry

They don't make them like O'Connor, Whelen and Keith anymore, and a shame it is. But those guys would not do well today. Folks these days don't like to hear the truth.

My 22" .270 averages 3147 with the Nosler 130 Partition and 59 grains of old 4831. One more grain gives slight pressure signs, so, in my rifle, 59 is plenty hot. They are all different.

Hey Terry P

Hope you do try those 160 NP in your 270 - I've spent a lot of time working up reloads in an old 270 I recently acquired. I found out that RL22 seems to ring out the best velocity in this 270.

55 gr/160 NP = 2886 fps
56gr/ 150 NBT = 2901
56.5/150 NBT = 2998 = too stiff for me = why I tried 56 gr
57.5/130 NBT or Sierra SBT = 3146 fps

WLR Primers

Every one of these loads will shoot 3 shot 1/2" groups pretty much to the same point of impact at 100 yds - no need to resight

24" 98 Custom - I glass bedded the action, opened up the barrel channel and bedded the forend tip.

Tried bunch's of loads with SC4831 initially - 60 & even 59 gr loads with 130's would loosen up the primer pockets after one firing. 4831 groups were good but RL22 really tightened them up - Velocity spreads were as little as 4 fps with 160 gr. Have fun.

I don't think I've read anywhere of anyone's hunting experience with the 160 gr. Jack was pretty well focused on 130 gr. My own exprience with semi spitzers in 25 (117 Nosler) and 7mm (175 gr Nosler) were that they anchored game faster. Neither one of these bullets is made anymore - but Nosler still markets the 160/270 so somebody out there is using them. At near 2900 fps with that blunt nose and weight that bullet should knock the s*&! out of anything.