Did you fellows try the little experiment I suggeted in the thread about the short-magnums? I'd be curious to see if you can notice the difference?

Bill, yes, I performed that test this year with a .300 WSM and a 7mm SAUM, but those were not rifles I owned and could spend quality time with. Last evening, I took a .223 Rem. out (the only short action rifle I have right now) and worked the bolt side-by-side with a .338 Win. Mag. that was handy. Of course, the .223 Rem. bolt throw was indeed shorter and the balance point is a bit different, so there is validity to your premise, no doubt about it.

For my purposes, bolt throw isn't an issue simply because I'm built about as average as you can get with 34" sleeves and a 17" neck size and wear a size 46-regular suit. So a 15 1/2" LOP and an '06-length bolt thrown feels just right to me, especially since that's what I've been used to for the last thirty years. Even switching over to a .375 H&H with a slightly longer throw feels entirely natural. What I really don't like are long 26" barrels, which really don't work for me.

For someone who has somewhat special needs and notices a marked increase in managable utility from a short action, yet wants short belted magnum performance from same, I can see why that rifleman would prefer to use a short Lazzeroni, SAUM, or WSM.

AD

Allen,

Is that a mistake the 15 1/2" LOP ? I'm asking because I'm pretty close to same size, but 13 1/2"- 13 5/8" LOP works best for me. Just wondering.

HBH

HBH, that was indeed a mistake, and it should have read 13 1/2" LOP.

Thanks, and Happy New Year!

AD

Allen....we're getting close. Forget about the bolt-throw because that doesn't enter into the equation for me. Just pick up one of your regular rifles and mount it normally and then mount it again with your front hand an inch farther forward and try it again. This "spacing of the hands" is one reason (and only one) that O/U and SxS shotguns can be made to feel livelier than pumps or semi-autos. I can shoot almost any barrel length in an O/U if the lop is correct but semi-autos are another story.

The comment about the length-of-pull has always amazed me as most rifle shooters, except those even shorter than me, seem to be able to shoot a length-of-pull right around 13 1/2" to 13 5/8" with almost no trouble as long as they don't grow much past 6'5" or so.

Being shorter than most can be a problem especially for a weatherman (my military speciality) as you are almost always the last one to know it is rainy.

Bill, I'm no stranger to SA's nor the idea of "handy" rifles... I've had carbines chambered in 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 7x57, 308 (three), 30-06 and 358 Winchester. I like a slightly shorter bolt throw and a slightly more compact rifle... that's why I don't own a single centerfire bolt action for big game with a barrel over 22"... barrel length is more critical to me in how a rifle feels and balances than an extra 5/8" of receiver (of course stock design and a smallish, low mounted scope matters too).

Your test (if I read it right... may not have!) assumes the bolt is in a different position on a 300 WSM vs. 300 WM (for example) they're not in a different place, but rather in the exact same place... forward the rear receiver ring is where the length is added so I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how this changes the balance. I will add I don't like the length of bolt throw on the long, long cartridges like the 300 Wby, 375 H&H, etc. The "regular" short mag's (338 WM, etc.) don't bother me as to bolt throw with a 13.5" LOP (I'm 5'10", 160 lbs, 44" coat).

Sooo, guess what I'm saying is I don't find much difference between a 24" bbl'd SA and a 24" bbl'd LA, but do find a difference in a 20 to 22" bbl'd rifle no matter SA or LA... those, for me, "feel" right.

BA

I don't fully understand Bills point either and it may be that I am just a little taller at 6'.

I agree with allen day and Brad and as long as the length of pull is not too long for my taste, and that's 13.25" to 13.5" and the barrel is not too heavy the rifle will feel fine.

I can operate magnum or shorter bolts from the shoulder just fine. I am all for short actions but as long as the rifle is not clumsy I like it.

I have a .300 H&H M70 with the 26" bbl. This rifle handles as well as most other magnums that are 24" but the barrel is rather slender at the muzzle at .560" The M70 .264 WM and .220 Swift 26" bbls are also the same diameter.

Like Brad says if it's 22" or so then it feels pretty good. My M70's 24" 7MM WSM is better than most due to the very light stock but it's not quite there. It is acceptable but not a real woods rifle.

Allen, and the rest of the gang

Happy New Year, to you and yours.

DB Bill, I have no time spent with the latest short actioned offerings, but I take it that you are referring to balance, and that issue has become more and more important to me.

Many Thanks

HBH

Bill, I to am built just like Allen (average) and all of my rifles sport a 13.5" LOP, but I guess this isn't what you were trying to get at. I've unfairly compared my custom 300WM to a friends 300WSM and found mine to fit me better. Obviously this is because the rifle was built for me. I feel that the fit and balance of a rifle is very important and I think that this is the point you were trying to get across. If this is better achieved by a short action rifle then go for it whole heartedly. Have a great New Year.

chuck

It is not my intent with this reply to add fuel to the fire but it is my opinion that a long action provides a more stable platform for the most important thing atached to the rifle. The scope.

chuck

The most important attached to any of my rifles is....ME!