I am having a 30 STW built for big game hunting. I hope to use the 180 Barnes XBT but the action is a Win 70 and the magazine length is limited at 3.6" so a 180 is seated pretty deep into the case. I am wondering if the 165 Barnes would be plenty adequate, considering they generally retain a high percentage of their weight. Have any of you used the 165 Barnes X on elk or big black bear or similarly sized game and if so do you think you would have gained much by using the 180? Thanks, Rufous.

The sales pitch from Barnes is that because of greater weight retention, you can use a one-step lighter bullet and achieve the same results.

I have never been able to prove this, as I've never been able to get the 'X' or 'XBT' bullets to group well in any rifle I've tried them in, even after stripping the bore to bare metal as they recommend.

Good luck!
George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

I shoot the 165gr XLC out of my 300Super(30-8mmRemMag/30STW),expressly. It is one of my favorite rifles,for the critters you mention.

It will take them at any distance and at any angle. The results are nothing shy of spectacular.............

I have been shooting 165g Barnes X in two 30.06's & a .308win. with fantastic accuracy .5" @100 yds. The 165g XBT's are all over the place(4-5"). I also shoot a .300WM with 180g X .5" or better (again i can't make the boat tails shoot in it either) These are all 3 shot group's with a SQUEEKY CLEAN BORE! On the other hand I have a .338 that no BARNES will shoot in! If you goof around with different powders and bullet weights I will bet you can find a combo. that will shoot in your .30STW!! I recovered a 165g X shot into a wet sand pile @ 100 yds. it still weighs 154g's a nice little 4 leaf clover

Have Fun with your new toy!!

I tried these 165 gr. Barnes X-bullets in my .300 Win. Mag. This was a really accurate rifle but those bullets loaded up the bbl so bad that I had to buy a Outers Foul Out kit.

Then I shot one of them into my standard bullet expansion test which is 1/2 gallon paper cartons filled with water. The bullet lost all of it's petals! It looked like a little piece of drill rod left over. The tiny base of the bullet weighed 80 grains!

I could not think of a worse bullet. My suggestion is to shoot Sierras in the summer and then Nosler Partitions in the fall. They shoot to the same 100 yd point of impact for me.

Don,
How do your Sierras or Noslers do better in this test, I'm currious, you didn't say. Please be specific about distance, velocity, inches of penitration and weight retention.

I too have lost some petals, but ONLY because of rocks in the soil at point blank range.

My 308win shoots a 150XLC inside of 2" at 300yds with 47.5gns varget at 2.8" oal.

It cleans up in 5 min. with Sweets 762 and a J. Dewey jag after 50rds.

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Brent

Damn odd,how EVERY one I whistle through my barrels,goes where I look and kills critters dead.

Good entertainment,glad I registered..........

Only Winchester FS comes close to Barnes-X bullets. I have heard great reports from hunters using Barnes-X bullets where it really counts: On game.

I have not used them for my .338, but I have used the FS with great results. I use the FS for the following reasons:

1. Penetration
2. To break through heavy bone when needed
3. "Some" expansion

I am certain that the "X" would do just as well.

I've only fired one shot at Game,using the FailSafe. It accounted for a respectable Bear. The penetration was impressive,the wound channel indicative of expansion and it was terminal.

The difference between the FailSafe and the X(besides construction),is the available weights/diameters. Winchester played it safe on the FailSafe. They are only offered in "traditional" weights and but a few diameters. Those weights fall at what is generally,at the upper end of the available spectrum. Those heavier weights,are a safeguard against overstressing the bullet,with the influences of extreme speed.

Conversely,the X enjoys much more latitude and is suited to a wider range of cartridges. I'm of the opinion,the X stands alone and there isn't a close second............

Geez, all the elk and mulies I shoot with my 140 Gr. XLC's out of my 7 mag drop conveniently. Eat up to the hole.

I have no idea about the bullets. Never found one yet.

For those that are having trouble, try a light pinch with the Lee crimp die.

Hey Big Stick -- good to see you here. Dutch.

Big Stick, are you using the 165 boattail or flatbase? Have you found Barnes' flatbase bullets to generally be more accurate than their boattail bullets? What powder are you using with the 165XLC and what velocity are you getting from what barrel length? What kind of accuracy are you able to get with the Barnes bullets? I shoot the 140 XBT with their blue coating in my 7mm Rem Mag and get 5" groups at 500 yards. Thanks, Rufous.

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Stick:
I shoot the 165gr XLC out of my 300Super(30-8mmRemMag/30STW),expressly. It is one of my favorite rifles,for the critters you mention.

It will take them at any distance and at any angle. The results are nothing shy of spectacular.............

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I shoot the 165gr XLC(BT) in front of a copious amount of Re-19. Both in a S/S Douglas 1-10" twist,26" barreled Sporter and a S/S McMillan 1-10" twist,30" barreled Long Range Hammer. Both wear McMillan stocks,Rem 700 actions and Leupold glass. Velocities are fairly impressive(grin).

Both will shoot sub .5MOA,with boring regularity. My intent isn't to turn this into another one of those "Long Range" threads. My contention,is thus. The 165gr XLC is a stupendous projectile,in a fast 30. It combines fiddlestring trajectory,with minimal drift and excellent remaining energy. Further,regardless of range(impact velocity),it is fully capable of harnessing that speed and putting it to good use,by administering rapid terminal effects. She'll dig deep,smash bone and otherwise leave one impressed.

Give me the 165XLC,in a fast 30 and I can readily handle any scenario that envelopes a .308" diameter projectile. To think that another 15grs of weight,in the same diameter,readily alters it's effectiveness,is contrary to my thinking/experience.

If the 165 won't readily do it,you are better off stepping up in diameter.

There's damn little,that 165XLC,won't readily handle. She's a DANDY(my opinion,all).

Dutch,thanks for the welcome..........

[This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 12-05-2001).]

It isn't marketing hype. The lighter X-Bullets really do out-penetrate most heavier bullets (especially at high velocities).

I love Nosler Partitions and I know they would never let me down. I wouldn't hesitate to use them on anything. But after stepping up from a 7mm-08 to a 300 Win Mag, I found the X-Bullets far superior in every penetration test I tried. Even in soft wood (where Partitions retained 80+% at lower velocities, keeping their front core) they would usually only retain around 65% when launched from the magnum velocities. Their front core would be gone and the jacket would be pulled back tightly around the base from the partition leaving a pretty small frontal diameter. Don't get me wrong, that's better than most bullets and I have the "never fail" confidence in them that I don't have of many other bullets, it just wasn't as good as the X's.

With the X-Bullets in the same medium, it doesn't matter how much they weigh or how fast you push them. They have a large "X" at the front and usually retained 99% or more of their weight meaning a 180 X would easily outdistance a 200 Partition. The last 130 I recovered from such a test weighed 131. After picking out all the wood chips it weighed 129.9.

In tougher mediums where you lose one or more petals, they still always had a decent frontal diameter and would retain 90+% of their weight. Of course the Partitions would still do well always retaining 60% of their weight, just not quite as well in my opinion.

On game? I don't know because I've never recovered one. I've taken deer with the 200X, 180XBT, 130XBT and also an antelope with the 130XBT (haven't gone elk hunting in a very long time...since before X bullets were invented... )

Anyway, even the 130 XBT with a MV of 3663 always punches one huge hole all the way through and always exits, even when going through both shoulders. They don't even take a step.

I would expect similar performance from a 165 on elk.

That said, the X's haven't been the most accurate bullet in my rifle. Acceptable for hunting but nothing to brag about. This is one reason I'm considering trying some GS HV's for next year. The word is they're just as good after the hit but faster and more accurate before they get there.

I just may have to try some 160's....

Anyway, with 165 X's you'll probably be better armed than 75% of the other hunters out there. I don't see them letting you down.

JonA,

I tried a G.S. HV on a 6x6 elk this year. Couldn't find that bullet either......LOL!

Dutch.

How about the 110g or 130g X bullets in .308 for Antelope or coyotes? Will the lighter X bullets open on smaller game?

I have found the Barnes bullets to be gamble...when they work they work wonderfully and when they fail they fail miserably....

I am convienced that it is a quality control situation with Barnes and I won't risk it again after about 4 failures and I know of many other failures...

I was talking to Ross Seyfried who probably promoted Barnes to fame and he said the he has found the same to be true and considers it a quality control problem....He now uses the WW Failsafe, and states they are a very reliable bullet....I use Northfork, Woodleighs or GS, they have always work so far....but keep in mind that any bullet made by man can and will fail on ocassion, even solids.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Unless the nose pinches shut, the darn thing will open, unless the laws of physics are repealed The old bullets have smaller holes than the newer ones, a change that was made to make sure they open.

Maybe that change wasn't enough, or maybe the failure reports are from old small hole bullets only. I know of a couple of guys that use drills to make sure the holes are clean, and one of them enlarges them a little. I tend to clean them on XLC's, cause the blue stuff gets in there. So, I'm a little anal 'bout this stuff..... :}

However, I know for a fact that the 130gr 7mm HV will open up fantastically on small stuff, as small as a feral cat...... HTH, Dutch.

A couple of years ago, I shot a large bull elk at about 100 yds. twice out of .35 Whelen. Both shots were into the chest cavity, exiting from either hip. One was a 250 Gr. Speer GS, the second was a 200 Barnes X. That's full length penetration with both.

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JD

Ray,

what is failing miserably mean to you? Did the animal not die? How did Ross view them to be unreliable? What QC issues do you refer to also?

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Brent

I have loaded and used "X" Bullets in many weights in a good number of calibers and all available weights in .375. Even as low as the 210 grainers for which I have one-hole loads @ 2,850 and 1.25" loads @ 3,160. They are quite pleasant to shoot and extremely effective on everything from woodchucks to whitetails. If their point of impact @ 100 yards wasn't 5" higher than my 270 "X" or 300 Super Solid loads, I'd certainly consider trying them for light to medium African plainsgame. They have real potential to add yet another dimension to across-the-board application of the .375.

[This message has been edited by Nickudu (edited 12-06-2001).]

I have a 30-378 that does not like heavier bullets. It shoots the 150 xlc pretty accurate at 3700 fps. Ishot a 6x6 last year quartering away at 100 yds. The bullet went through 3' of elk and left a hole the size of my thumb with no bloodshot meat upon exit.
After exiting it hit the upper front leg on the other side and mangled the bones so bad it looked like an entrance wound. If I had to give you a guess I would say that bullet may have lost it's pedals at that high of velocity to. BUT, at that speed a blunt pencil type projectile still will do alot of damage. I've seen alot of animals shot by barnes x bullets--all died--very rare to find a bullet. I wouldn't be afraid to use a 130-150 grain x bullet on any non dangerous game in .270-.308 calibers.

My friend uses 165gr XLC Boat tails in his .308 Warbird...I used this combination to kill a doe this year at very long range...jury's still out on how far it was, don't have a laser range finder...anywho, it's safe to say that it was AT LEAST 700yds and pbly more. The 165XLC took out heart/lungs splendidly, and left a .30cal diameter entrance, and maybe .45cal diameter exit wound...very little bloodshot meat, hardly any at all, in fact.

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

[This message has been edited by the444shooter (edited 12-06-2001).]

I just found a good load for my sons M70 classic compact 308win. 150gn XLCBT over 47.5gn Varget, 2" at 300yds. win brass at 2.8" oal. It will be for moose and you name it, even bear.

My brother shot a black bear walking tward him with a 300RUM and a XLC 150, as he shot the bear did a 180 and the bullet went in just below the spine and blew heart and lung out a grapefruit sized hole in the chest. This was at 10yds and his insides looked like they been through a blender.

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Brent

hi i dont know how well theese bullets work on game but i can tell you i shot some into a 55gallon plastic drum full of water at about 40 yrds oh boy what a site to see it picks the drum about 2 feet off the ground and blows the water out the top as for the bullet 200 gr x bullet it did just as it was designed to do mushroom very nicely. i did this about 5 times . each time no damage to the bullets they stayed together wow .but they dont shoot to well in my 338 wm .

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knowledge is power and you never have enough knowledge

I have used 165gr X's in my 308win and had nothing but great results on elk and deer. I wouldn't hesitate to recomend them to anyone.
I don't know what happened to the bullets that Don Martin tested. I have shot them(X's) into bags of sand, bags of gravel, into wet phonebooks, through wood slats, and into 55gal. drums of water. I have never had one fail! with my 308 or my 338. They are the toughest bullets I know of out side of a solid.
As for their performance on game. I can tell you about many hunts that ended well for my self. but this year a freind did something I would never try with that cal at that range and it worked due to the Barnes X.
This year a freind shot a huge whitetail buck at four hundred + yds with a 80gr barnes X out of his 243win. It broke both front shoulders and exited the body. Now thats penitration! I still don't think I would take that shot, but he was confident in himself and his load.
I took a Whitetail buck that gave me no other shot than to run it through a ham on the way to the vitals with my 308, and it did the job. It entered the right rear leg smashed the femer went through the heart/lung area and broke the left front shoulder I still have the bullet it was just inside the hide on the shoulder. It weighs 162gr! I woudn't have treid the shot with any other bullet.
Can you tell I like them?
X-Ring AKA Scooter

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Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition!

A few quick question guys, do the XLCs shoot faster(up to 200fps) as Barnes claims? Interesting thread, I just picked up a Barnes brochure and I am very interested in these bullets. I'm not a big fan of moly coated bullets but what is this XLC coating? Will it build up in the throat? Thanks, sure-shot

Big 50,

All bullets loose some weight but the Barnes X looked so bad as it was only .30 cal again!

This does not mean that it would not be effective but I will never find out as they foul the bbls so bad.

As I said I just use other bullets.

I really got started on them when the wife got some lead in her deer chop and complained so I thought it would be cool to use pure copper.

I am going back to Sierra's in the summer and Nosler Partitions in the fall. I do shoot the 180 Speer in the .358 for whitetails. They seem attracted to that bullet, so many of them eat it.

Sureshot, they do seem to give a LITTLE benefit, velocity wise, but not enough to matter.

Cleaning is improved, though that only matters in rough barrels.

When you load them, you'll be happier if you buy a VLD style deburrer (Lyman and Sinclair have them), which makes the neck angle a little shallower. Keeps the blue stuff from scraping off.

I don't shoot enough of them to worry about buildup. Run them up to max pressure, and watch the groups shrink. HTH, Dutch.