So steve as a communications director for RMEF,what do you make a year in salary?

Introduce parvo into a pack and it will take care of itself. Now we as hunters talking of how to get rid of wolves are labled in a non-favorable way by the tree huggers and the like. But if a group of tree huggers torches a lab that does testing on animals they are looked at as heroes but are nothing more than terrorists.

Now as for the RMEF, I washed my hands of them years ago. I can not believe that outfitters and and guides still support and belong. Yes they need to move to a more favorable location and yes they need to be political in a PRO elk way. Then every thing else is secondary. The response I got from the RMEF , concerning wolves in elk country, was "We belive wolves can and are a viable part of a healthy elk herd". BS! Ask a canadian or alaskan guide!

Fun with radio collars:

The old Norwegian trick to dealing with radio collars is attaching them to a long-distance train at a station. Boy those wolves can move.

This should really tell people that wolves will do a bunch of travelling. Last year a man I know personally ( and it was reported in all the local papers by the conservation Dept,) shot a gray wolf near Trenton, Missouri while bowhunting deer. He shot the bastard with a compound bow, of course they said it came from Mn. or Michigan population also. Every outfitter in the west says the same thing about wolves- wolves in - game out.

Mickey, I sure hope that wasn't a Freudian slip! More like plain carelessness. I intended to type SAFARI club. Can't say much good about the Sierra club, I'm afraid, other than they are highly political. Dutch.

RMK, though I would not ask Steve that question, the larger issue, administrative expenses, is VERY valid.

Efficiency in a non-profit organization is hugely important. The link below is to the American Institue of Philantropy, an organization that rates non-profits on their efficiency. If you take a look, you will see that the RMEF is one of the most efficient environmental non-profits. When you consider it doesn't do politics, you KNOW the money goes "on the ground" instead of to lobbyists, lawyers, or hangers-on.

Personally, I have seen our regional guy sleep in his truck to save the motel bill. In his words, "hey, that's another acre we can save". From what I have seen, not too many fat-cats among the RMEF staff. Dutch.

http://www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html

Mr. Wagner: Thank you so much for posting. I have tried for, going on two years now (in person and over the phone) to get someone - anyone to espouse the posititon of the rmef regarding Wolves.
To tell the truth I am so concerned about this issue and so worried about the future of Elk Hunting opportunities that I suggest to my large contingent of friends, acquaintances and Hunting partners that they by pass the rocky mountain elk foundation entirely. Your organization needs to make a definitive stand against the Wolves. No more happy words or meandering or evading inquiry or "trying to get along" with the greens! You and your organization simply have a decision to make! Come out against the Wolves at every level and in every instance or just happy word along! Nice Wolves! Please don't bite the wildlife! Happy words - wasted breath!
Mr. Wagner I strongly suggest you review the sickening (to me anyway) episode of the TV show Elk Country Journal pertaining to Wolves. The stupididty and absolute ridiculous stance blathered about the Wolves from wayne carlton actually and the promoter of this show (rmef) made me nauseus! Happy word drivel and avoidance of a deadly serious situation.
I will reiterate you have a simple choice - fart around and dodge this issue for the next decade at which time only the ultra rich and the ultra lucky at game tag drawings will be allowed to Hunt the declining Elk or deal with it by an all out effort. And by declining I mean being decimated by Wolves! Wolves man! Get your head out of your digestive tract outlet! The Wolves are killing the Elk! Not drought! I live here in the heart of Elk country and spent the day yesterday viewing Elk while catching Arctic Grayling in the morning and in the late afternoon I was catching Brown Trout in a stream 120 miles away (via dirt road) as the evening Elk came out to feed and water. I would contend that not ONE Elk has died of thirst or starvation due to lack of water in Montana! Not one! The Wolves are killing them! The fires that you mention did kill some Elk (200 as expalined to me). But the areas that were burned here in Montana 3 years ago are now all (95% plus of the areas anyway that weren't actually sterilized by the hottest pockets of the fires) radiant with fresh grass. And as recent as yesterday I saw Elk feeding in these grassy areas.
Encroachment hmmmm.... Every year for the past many years I attend the meetings of the Beaverhead County Outdoors Association! One of the highlights of the late spring meetings each year is the presentation of Elk census numbers in the 10 SW Montana Game Management Units. The units all literally have set record population highs each succeeding year (despite the 6 year drought and the fires and encroachment!). Well for some unknown reason both last spring and this spring the Elk census numbers were not presented to our organization! I quit them this year as they were taking the same "lets get along" theres no real problem, attitude you and your organization has!
The decision is simple and I will not allow you and your organization to dance around it! You can either have Elk Sport Hunting that is accessible and affordable to the number of Hunters allowed today or you can have Wolves. In 10 years with the Wolves having already exploded past what even the fascist (government control everything without regards to what is really best for the public) greenies want the Elk will not exist in Huntable numbers! Please ponder that carefully Mr. Wagner. More Wolves than even the greens want already exist! The Elk herds are now being dramatically affected to the detriment of the Elk and Elk Hunters!
What are you going to be the public relations director of when the Wolves have killed all the Elk and Hunters (the backbone of your organization!) no longer can Hunt them!
Perhaps this is not the forum to voice my concerns about the anti-logging industry policies your organization "goes along with"! So I won't! But a word of warning to you and anyone who might be interested - if you think lumber and wood building supplies are expensive now just be patient! In another decade our children will not be able to afford a house! The Canadians will do what OPEC is trying to do with our buliding materials - squeeze every last cent out of those that depend on the resource. Your organization would do well to heartily endorse logging in America instead of standing in the way of this renewable resource. Oh and by the way Mr. Wagner Elk do better in forests systems that have alternating areas of timber harvest. Contrary to the green opinion on that matter.
I simply see no reason any person would join, support or endorse the rmef! I think a persons endeavors, efforts and financial investments can be better directed.
I do not want you to think I am a negative type person or a contrary or an anti organization lazy person! I am not. Among other things I am an Endowment member of the National Rifle Association, a founding life memeber of the Varmint Hunters Association, a life member of my home Rifle and pistol shooting range, a member of a local Trap Shooting Association and I have served on the Board Of Directors for 10 years of the largest Arms Collectors Association west of the Mississippi! I have testfied in front of state legislatures, county government and city government regarding outdoor and arms related issues.
Lets get something done about the Wolves! Supporting the rmef is not the way to get anything done.
In closing I have to ask you Mr. Wagner (and I know its easier to dance around and spout "happy words") do you fear for the immediate future of the Elk in the Rocky Mountains at the hands (or fangs and claws) of the Wolf or do you think we can all just get along? Remember the Wolves (according to government biologists not me!) are increasing at 20%+ a year and the Elk have been decreasing for the last two years!
Save the Elk! Stand against Wolves. Change the rmef if possible - radically change them! I think they are not worth saving myself. Start over.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Dale Gibbons
Dillon, Montana

Varmintguy, at the risk of repeating myself, why are you so focused on the RMEF? Wolf management is a political issue, not a habitat issue. The RMEF is not a political organization.

Are you this upset with Pheasants Forever for not opposing wolves? Are you upset with the Schoolboard for not opposing wolves? Are you upset with the Blue Ribbon Coalition for not opposing wolves? Again, this is not an RMEF issue, because it is not a habitat issue.

There is a very good reason why the RMEF has not given you an answer about their position on wolves: they basically DO NOT HAVE ONE. Even the one formulated here is the same generic statement you would have gotten had you asked about sheep, bears, coyotes, and badgers. It's not a RMEF issue. End of story, let's talk habitat.

The day the RMEF becomes a political organization, I will stop supporting it.

You are 100% correct if you direct your friends away from the RMEF in your effort to get rid of wolves. Perhaps the Safari Club would be a better home for you and your friends to achieve your political agenda. I hear their lobbyists are quite good.

But if you are interested in maintaining a place for elk to live and for the public to hunt elk, there is no beter home than the RMEF.

I would love to hear which organization you decide to join to further your objectives, as well as how, and how much, you decide to contribute. JMO, Dutch.

Dutch: Your kind of thinking got Hunters in this mess to begin with! We (the rmef and all Big Game Hunters and outdoors enthusiasts) did not engage the greens with enough gusto at the beginning of this Wolf mess. So should we make the same mistake now that the situation is clearly critical to maintaining Elk herds. By the way who is going to buy expensive habitat for Elk when no one can Hunt them?
Let me repeat who will work to preserve Elk that are going to just be food for uncontrolled (as of now) numbers of Wolves? Are you? And how much are you going to donate to your described non-political entity the rmef to provide food for Elk? And if you were to be foolish enough to donate to the non-political rmef to buy habitat for Elk no sportsman can Hunt then what does that say about your sensibilities. Perhaps in Idaho the Wolves will all of a suddenstop eating Elk and Elk calves just at the point that everyone will be happy with the Elk numbers? The greens will be happy, the rmef will be happily acquiring more habitat and the Hunters will have just enough Elk so everyone can bag a big Bull every year! Unrealistic this just as it is unrealistic to say the rmef is non-political. I do not like their politics and more and more people also do not like them. It is going to take an effort to get them going in the right direction! As of now I am not convinced the rmef is at interested in joining with a political solution to the Wolf situation. That being said then to hell with them and any other organization or individual should do their best politically to stop the Wolves from decimating aour hard fought for Elk herds.
One thing about politics dutch and the rmef should realize - if you don't play the political game, fight for what you want then you live by laws, rules and policies some one else makes! Right now the greens are leading the rmef! Again to hell with that.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmointguy, sorry, but you keep swinging at balls.

You make two fundamental, but unsupported assumptions:

1) that all hunters oppose wolves
2) that all greens support wolves

Neither is valid. It does illustrate the basic point, however. A habitat organization like the RMEF cannot exist if it gets caught in every political hot issue. It has already gotten far too involved in the elk farming, roadless, atv, grizzly and wolf issues. Even among hunters, there are those on both sides of each of these issues, and a multitude like them.

Likewise, the Safari club doesn't really get involved in habitat. That is not their job. Aside from being a social club, it is there to defend hunters rights and act as a political united front towards the legislature. If you want to influence the political process, do it through the proper channel: quit charging windmills!

This is not a problem, nor is this the reason that we "are in this situation". The problem is not with the RMEF, pheasants forever, the Mule Deer Association, or the Upland Alliance. The problem is with those, like you, that never took the wolf issue past the grass roots level. When it got time to make the decsisions, your legislature had already been bought and paid for by the Central Park environmentalists.

If you want to influence the political process, take a leaf from the book that the Farm Bureau wrote, or any other big time outfit. You have to put up the money to buy the lobbyists, and buy the votes in Congress.

The bare naked fact is that the Sierra Club and the Lord knows what other group of dullards will continue to spend their money. Until you, and those that share your viewpoints, are willing to put up the bucks to counter those granolas, you will continue to get batted around and lose every political issue.

As I said, I am very interested in which organization you decide to support. JMO, Dutch.

I hunted black bear in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness area in Idaho in early May with my brother. We had a great hunt and I shot a nice black boar. About 3 years ago 5 wolves were dropped off at the airstrip where we flew into. They had been harassing livestock around Salmon and so they were taken into the wilderness and dumped. My brother and I were fortunate to see one. It was awesome. I am a hardcore hunter, not a treehugger by any means but it was really cool to see my first wolf in the wild. It was not so cool though to see the carnage that the wolves have been causing. We found a natural mineral spring in a grassy slope that was a magnet for deer and elk. There were probably 30 deer and 30 elk in this small area. My brother and I walked up through it and were appalled at all the bones laying around. Clearly the wolves knew what a magnet this mineral lick was for the deer and elk and were turning it into a killing field. Rufous.

The RMEF doesn't want to take a side and be forcefull with it's comments about wolf control and delisting, but DO make the nice little comments.

My problem with the RMEF here is as follows;

If you aint got a dog in the fight, stay the hell out. By this I mean, don't print any more of the nice little wolfy stories or feel good wolfy comments by the editor. Either get in, or get out, but quit with the bullshit!

Steve,
I joined the RMEF let my membership lapse, joined again and am due for renewal. I question at times the motivation when money raised by local chapters goes to Montana and when the local chapter requests support they get the cold shoulder?
The Klamath chapter of RMEF has raised quite a bit, yet little has been spent for local interests. Many RMEF members have bailed and spend considerable time and money with the OHA. Check it out.
I am interested to see your response.

Rmiller - I'm driving a fifteen year old pick up. What are you driving?

And come make a living in Montana. It makes Appalachia look pretty swank.

I also have a problem with thr RMEF transferring land to the Federal government. In case you don't know it, there are laws governing this, and the government can only purchase land for forts and arsenals. It's in the books. And if you don't think the USFS doesn't shut down access to not only hunters, but for all recreationists, your head is planted deeply in the sand. They start out with high sounding phrases, but things sure change in a few years time.

A friend sent me an email today about this topic that had me laughing... Some of you guys need to pull your heads out and take a walk in the hills. Fresh air can increase the oxygen to the brain.

"Seen those rants on AccurateReloading about how elk hunting in Montana is about done for? What a bunch of idjits. None of those guys are ever even gonna SEE a wolf, let alone shoot one or poison a pack with antifreeze or parvo, or toss a radio collar on a freight train, or any of those other redneck fantasies. Should be illegal to sound that stupid. I bet the Elk Foundation folks are shaking their heads. That's the gratitude they get...."

[ 06-25-2003, 07:17: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Waksupi, I drive two new rigs but don't hunt as much as I would like . Guess I need to check my priorities.

19 more months and I plan on making a living in MT .

I am confused about the appalachia remark . Is it good or bad.

[ 06-26-2003, 05:47: Message edited by: RMiller ]

I am with you varmit guy! You brought out some good points. I spent the weekend in Sunlight basin of Wyoming, I seen around 200 head of elk, not many calves. In fact less than 30 with all the cows. Yes the wolf is having a negative affect on elk. The RMEF mission statement and I quote is: "

Promoting sound management of wild free ranging elk,which may be hunted or otherwise enjoyed."

Not opposing an illegaly introduced population of CANADIAN GREY wolves and printing warm and fuzzy pro wolf propaganda in the magazine goes directly against your mission statement.

Well Greenhorn........you think it should be illegal to talk stupid ??

Then how about all your rants on Hunt Talk about shooting wolves in the ass ???............

Have you changed your mind about wolves since then ??.........

Sdgunslinger.. stupidity and sarcasm are two entirely different things. I haven't changed my mind on wolves. I'd shoot one RIGHT SQUARE IN THE ASS given the right circumstances. My goodness.. and I'm in the RMEF thinking that way?

Waksupi you're a fucking Idiot, I am ashamed I'm a Montanan with Fuckn' morons like you spoutn' their mouth off about the third world country Montana is.

What do you know about Appalachia... You live in one of the RICHEST counties in Montana. How's the view of Flathead Lake from your economically depresses community of million dollar homes, and thousands of tourists dumping their money into your community...

I see your posts time and time again saying how bad you have it in Montana. Now the wolves have decimated the elk herds. The one that gets me is "The elk are gone in the North Fork of the Flathead river in N.W. Montana, middle fork has a few hanging on, South Fork is pretty much wiped out. Going elk hunting in the Bob Marshall?"

There have NEVER been a very high concentration of elk in the Flathead or the Bob for that matter... I don't think the wolves killed em all off just yet, maybe you should get off the road and hunt. Oh yeah good luck killing a wolf (estimated state population of 400), you seem to have enough trouble killing an elk (estimated state population of 160,000)

And here's another one "I'm driving a fifteen year old pick up. What are you driving?
And come make a living in Montana. It makes Appalachia look pretty swank."

If you don't like it MOVE or get the fuck off well fair. I am a 6th generation Montanan. My family has never had is as bad as you seem too.

Its not like I come from a rich family. My dad was a high school teacher (49th lowest paid teachers in the USA), and my mom is a secretary with a high school education. They raised three kids, put us all through college, and still had money to get a new car, and truck every now and then. Hell I drove a newer truck than you do now when I was in high school, but I had a JOB and didn't live from well fair check to check.

Swank you say... I now live within spittn' distance of "Appalachia", and I can tell you this, the only place I have every seen poverty to that level, would be an Indian res. in Montana. How about a few little stats of West Virginia (the heart of Appalachia) vs. Montana

WV Families below poverty 14%, average family income $36,000. Now for Montana, families below poverty 10.5%, and average income$40,500. Boy that looks pretty fuck'n swank to me.

You're a Dumb ass.

about the third world country Montana is.

49th in the nation for income.

What do you know about Appalachia.

Lived there

.. You live in one of the RICHEST counties in Montana. How's the view of Flathead Lake from your economically depresses community of million dollar homes, and thousands of tourists dumping their money into your community...

The million dollar homes belong to the imports coming in. The locals that have been here a long time certainly don't live in them. And the tourist dollars go to McDonalds. There's damn few spent with the local producer. Service jobs are not productive.

I see your posts time and time again saying how bad you have it in Montana.

When we had a resource based industry, we had it quite good. The Green Nazis took care of that.

Now the wolves have decimated the elk herds. The one that gets me is "The elk are gone in the North Fork of the Flathead river in N.W. Montana, middle fork has a few hanging on, South Fork is pretty much wiped out. Going elk hunting in the Bob Marshall?"

There have NEVER been a very high concentration of elk in the Flathead or the Bob for that matter...

Now there is a fact you stumbled onto. There never were a lot here. Now there are a lot less.

I don't think the wolves killed em all off just yet, maybe you should get off the road and hunt.

Be assured I do. Even if I was a road hunter, all the side roads have been gated by the FS.

Oh yeah good luck killing a wolf (estimated state population of 400), you seem to have enough trouble killing an elk (estimated state population of 160,000)

Thank you for your well wishes.

And here's another one "I'm driving a fifteen year old pick up. What are you driving?
And come make a living in Montana. It makes Appalachia look pretty swank."

If you don't like it MOVE or get the fuck off well fair.

Boy, I had my back broke in a logging accident, and never went on welfare, or got workmans comp. Stick it up your stinky little ass.

I am a 6th generation Montanan. My family has never had is as bad as you seem too.

How come you left, then? How come the kids have to leave the state for jobs? This crap I hear about fifth or six generation Montanans gags me. My people were here quite awhile before you johnny come latelies showed up.

Its not like I come from a rich family. My dad was a high school teacher (49th lowest paid teachers in the USA), and my mom is a secretary with a high school education.

And as public employees, making twice what the average citizen makes here.

That explains alot to me. If it wasn't for the idiotic crap being taught in the schools, the kids might have a bit of sense when they get out. You obviously didn't

They raised three kids, put us all through college, and still had money to get a new car, and truck every now and then. Hell I drove a newer truck than you do now when I was in high school, but I had a JOB and didn't live from well fair check to check.

I'm working three different jobs, and still ain't making shit. There have been over 1500 people laid off in this valley the past couple months, and your lucky if you can get a lawn to mow right now. I see you have grown up into a very good liberal type that assumes others aren't doing what you think is best.

Swank you say... I now live within spittn' distance of "Appalachia", and I can tell you this, the only place I have every seen poverty to that level, would be an Indian res. in Montana. How about a few little stats of West Virginia (the heart of Appalachia) vs. Montana

Oops, I forgot. The Reservations aren't part of Montana.

WV Families below poverty 14%, average family income $36,000. Now for Montana, families below poverty 10.5%, and average income$40,500. Boy that looks pretty fuck'n swank to me.

Now for the rest of the story. Montana has one of the highest rates of government employees per capita of any state. These people are paid according to government scale, regardless of where they are. If you eliminate all those on government payrolls, it drops that average drastically.

Yes, You're a Dumb ass.

I'm witchoo, VarmintGuy. If the Neville Chamberlains and the Green infiltrators of the RMEF don't believe having wolves shoved down our throats is a compelling ELK issue, I can't afford them much credibility I'm afraid.

Simple enough.

Oddly, I make a living in Montana and have lived in Maryland. It's hard everywhere. Just a matter of what your expectations are, in my case.

Cheers lads!

Redial

New info today. Our Senator says we're #50 for income now. And over 64% are government employees in the state. I question that myself, can't hardly believe it is that high, but between schools, including colleges, county, state, and federal workers, maybe??....

Such a lovely day for looking for unwanted predators...

Good luck Waksupi! Knock one down for me!

I can believe the government numbers, just drive by a BLM office in the middle of the day. I drove by the one in Worland Wy. and counted 65 suv's, cars, and trucks, in the employee parking lot. I am yet to see one single BLM vehicle out in the prairie. Where is that middle finger icon????????

The office is the best place for the useless motherfuckers. All that happens when they do go out in the field,is come up with some other way to keep you from using public lands.

kudu56;

The next time your in the Worland area give me a call.But,give me a couple of days to get my new email address in my profile! -memtb

Winchester, I drive by you every day!

kudu56;
Contact me when you have a chance(I updated my email address), and maybe we can meet up sometime. I work over at Lost Cabin, and have 7 days off at a time. -memtb

Kudu56: I have Hunted the Sunlight Basin area many times! What a beautiful and pleasing area to Hunt! I have some huge shed Elk antlers from that area which I picked up many yeas ago. With the numbers you relay regarding cow/calf ratios in the area that herd will also succumb and diminish to un-Huntable numbers in a decade or so! Tragedy that! Maybe the rmef and its happy word idiot leaders will then become the rmwf (rocky mountain wolf foundation!) and buy up land and give fundraising banquets to buy domestic animals to drop off and let the wolves munch up! The short sided stupidity of the rmef regarding the wolves would be laughable if not so idiotic and tragic!

Duotch: You are the one making many unsupported assumptions! Your premise that wolves and Elk in the Rocky Mountains will "just get along" and your convenient "overlooking" of the tens of millions of independent Sportsmen who have supported Wildlife with their licenses and self imposed taxes (long before the rmef even existed) are not much more responsible for the large herds of Elk that existed recently and the reintroduction of Elk to places they used to roam - typical elist arrogance! Well don't you try and distort reality as long as I have a computer, phone, typewriter and a voice!
Until you and the other arrogant elitist's who support the rmef's stand on wolves change your tune then you are not doing the Elk in the west a favor! YOU are helping to diminish the herds! That is a fact. Ignoring facts is easy to do but it almost always comes back to bite those who do - in the ass! In about 10-12 years if the Wolves are not strictly controlled you will have a big bite taken out of your arrogant ass when sport Hunting seasons will first be curtailed then closed! Ignore this reality if you will but do not preach to those that are a little more in touch with reality than you are duotch (and the rmef).
I have in the past influenced the political process numerous times by both my own personal efforts and donations as well as with the help of numerous organizations I belong to! By your own admission the rmef is not involved in politics so why in Gods name man would I want to support them? Please try and get in touch with the reality of your own stated view of their position!
duotch in order better to try and lead you to a sane stance on the wolf issue regarding Elk I must pose to you two questions that "I am very interested in" - do you feel the game biologists and census takers in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are correct in that the Elk and the calf crops are being devastated in many areas by the wolves?
And duotch this final question - will you be stupid enough to keep supporting the rmef in 10 to 12 years when Sport Hunting of Elk WILL be drastically curtailed in many areas?
Many people resent the top heavy money movers at the rmef, MANY PEOPLE! I do not have a dog in that fight. My main concern is their green policies and their idiotic stance on the wolves! I will say again, do not support the rmef in any way until they come out squarely and unequivocally against the wolf being uncontrolled in the Rocky Mountains!
duotch I am really interested in knowing if you will still support the rmef when it becomes the rmwf?
Also duotch I want to apologize for my slow reply to your arrogant posting! I have been off in the high country of the Rocy Mountains on a sporting venture! I did not see may calf Elk with the cows I saw! Oh yeah its the drought! I forgot! That stupid view by the rmef is yet another reason not to buy anything the rmef is trying to pitch! Water was everywhere and the grass was green lush and deep everywhere I went! Its the predators man! To many predators killing to many Elk!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The same thing has been happening to our deer populations in CA because the liberals voted to ban hunting of the mountain lion about 15 years ago. Now the cougar population is at an all time high, and our deer populations in alot of areas are at an all time low. It has been my experience that environmental groups really could care less about the environment, what they really dispise is capitalism, that is what they truely want to shut down. Further, trial lawyers are behind alot of these groups as they are making a "fortune" off of environmental issues. Wolves and cougars are hunters, as is, man, so let man begin the hunting in my view.

You can have lots of game or lots of preditors! But not lots of both! Plain simple fact, more wolves and grizzlys = fewer elk. It is already 1 in 5 odds or worse in getting a limited quota elk tag in Wy for a resident. Lets see, compound that with fewer elk, what will it be like in 10 years? So fewer elk means fewer elk hunters and fewer members to the RMEF! Yes it is an issue affecting them. Illegaly intorduced wolves into elk habitat is a RMEF issue. And they straddle the fence on the issue pretty much the same as the Wy game and fish!

AggieDog & Kudu56: Its obvious - I could not have stated the situation clearer and more succinctly than you two have!
Thank you!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think the only thing to do is reintroduce the elk to the eastern US. That way these bunny hugger will have to live with elk running into their cars!! For what is it worth Wyoming and Montana for the most part are piss poor elk habitat! The Great Lakes states, Pennsylvania, Upstate New York, Northwestern New England, and Appalacian States are all far better elk habitats.

Lucs

The man sounds good from here.

We don't have wolves here in Central Oregon , but we do have Cougars. The simple solution is The 3 S's, Shoot , Shovel, Shut Up. Cougars, Wolves, Coyotes are all "targets of opportunity'
krag35

Krag>>>
Good advise!! that is my opinion in Southern Oregon. Correct that, shoot and let the sucker rot!

Krag: Good old round also.~!