The bullet drop between a 180 and 200 gr. bullet out of a .300 RUM is a non factor to someone who knows how to shoot their rifle at any given distance. Depending on the load its as little as an inch and a half at 500 yards.

My penetration tests have shown lighter X bullets to penetrate farther than heavier bullets with lead in them. And the heavier X bullets will penetrate even farter. That's old news....

But they do not create the same sized wound channel throughout this penetration. There's no free lunch.

Gents, we've lost sight of the original query; shooting 165gr (or a 180) BTs out of a 300 mag is not a good idea. Sure they'll work most of the time, but all it takes is that one, close in opportunity where only the shoulder is presented and those tin-foil BTs pushed to 2800 plus might just ruin your day. Even the manufacturer recommends Partitions, but I guess they are wrong too. jorge

Doc, this is no feud. Merely another "My way is the only way and if I said it, it must be, not only right, but absolute" sermon from SJ.

Idaho Shooter - Now that's what I call a "complete answer to a question". You made some great points.

My favorite hunting load in my 30-06 for over ten years was a 165 BT over 60 gr of H4831. I killed ground squirrels, grouse (head shots only), muscrat, fox, coyote, soda cans, plastic bottles full of water, and a deer or two each year. One of our favorite activities was a little informal shootoff at the end of a day shooting ground squirrels. We would set out a bunch of empty pop cans and drive off 300 yd or better. The first person to miss his pop can from field positions had to buy the beer once the rifles were put away and we made it to the local tavern. I always grabbed my 06 at this time of day, and never did pay for the beer.
I shot about 1000 rounds each year of this load in this rifle and knew the trajectory intimately to 400yd. I naturally was very confident with the rifle and load.
I thought that I was well equipped for a cow elk hunt when the opportunity arose. I placed two shots broadside into a cows heart area from the prone position at 225 yd with my Weaver 2.5-7x32 set on 7x and never even saw the cow flinch.
She stepped over the ridgeline and disappeared. I hope to never again feel the despair of thinking I had totally missed a gimme shot or had lost a wounded elk.
But as I approached the place where the elk had disppeared, the ground was covered with quarts of blood. I found my cow piled up about 40 yd from the impact point. My two shots had hit less than 3 inches from one another right directly into the heart. One bullet left a 2 1/2 by 6 inch entrance hole where it impacted a rib. Bullet and bone fragments totally destroyed the heart and both lungs, and the liver had several slices through it as if someone had slashed it with a hunting knife. The other bullet had slipped between two ribs and left an entrance wound which I could hardly put a finger into. Neither bullet exited, and I never did find them in the carcass except for a few splinters of copper around the pouch and the guts.
I was concerned that if I had not hit a rib on entrance and left that large entrance wound, I would have had no blood trail to find an animal which was able to travel. At the first opportunity I developed loads for my rifle using the Hornady 190 gr SPBT, but never had a chance to use them on game.
Did the bullet fail? ....Heck no, It worked exactly as predicted by Nosler. Nosler recomends nothing smaller than 180gr if using a 30 cal BT on elk. No other bullet would have done more damage to the vitals of the target. No other bullet could possibly be expected to stop an elk any sooner with the shot placement I had chosen.
Would I choose to use that bullet again on an elk? .....No, I would like a little more margin for error. I would also like to see an exit wound on elk, which I don't think is necessary for deer. A deer if shot in the heart, lungs, or liver with a 165 bt will never go far. An elk on the other hand can soak up a tremendous amount of energy, or damage to the vitals, and will still often be able to travel an incredible distance. Especially a large bull.
I would be comfortable with my 190 gr loads or 180 Failsafes & X-bullets. In a pinch I would use a 165 Failsafe which I have loaded in the 30-06 for a recoil shy friend. Whom did harvest a cow with the load and was very satisfied with the performance.
I would recomend you try to talk your friend into trying your partitions, or better yet the Failsafe or X-bullet.
But that is just my opinion based on limited experience.

I will convene him to go with the Partition. I am trying to get him to buy the Barnes X. I know they will do the job.

Redhawk- The others are right. Unless you just plan on shooting 'em in the lungs this bullet is too light. Try 75gr. of Rl22 and a 180gr. Partition. This load shoots .5" groups at 200yds in my Rifle. I killed a 4 point Mule Deer (thats an 8 pointer to you eastern boys) at 334yds with it this fall. Last year it took a 4x4 Bull in Idaho and a 3x4 here in Washington.-Good luck-Mike

I do not recommend using a ballistic tip on an elk.

It's just opening a door for problems. IMO.

There are so many better choices out there. I would use a Triple Shock or Partition or Fail Safe or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or Swift A Frame or NorthFork or Accubond.

But NOT a Ballistic Tip. Just get something to group at least an inch and a half or better and go with it.

I have taken 5 elk over the years, four with Partitions and one with a TBBC. The partitions were in a .280, the TBBC was in a .300 Win Mag.

I have used the PT's on deer and antelope and will never use them again - they blow up too easily and do great damage to whatever part of the deer you hit. They killed the deer but not cleanly. I will stay with Partitions or TBBC's for elk.

In a word NO, the bullet is to frangible for a big bodied animal. Use the Accubond or partition for a much happier ending. I've taken 30 or more head of game using the 165 BT, but from a .308 and at far more "reasonable" velocities than you are likely to achieve. The Partition will deliever for you however, go with it.

Well, looks like the consensus is, X-nay on the Btips for elk.

Go with a triple shock, you can get some on sale from midway usa currently.

I just bought 7 boxes for about $150.

No, partion, or accubond.

You're not hunting statistical benchrest records; you're not hunting pocket gophers; you're not hunting Coues deer in Sonora -- but you are hunting a large, tough, big-boned, tenacious big game animals that can be hard to put down and keep down.

What you need to do is swap paper accuracy and velocity for bullet construction and bullet weight. Instead of the bullshit, tin-foil Nosler Ballistic Tip, you need to be shooting the Nosler Partition in either the 180 gr. or 200 gr. weights.............

AD

While on the subject of bullets for elk, why not move up to a 200gr bullet??? Regarding these x bullet thingies, everyone sez they are sooooo good you can get the same effect with a smaller bullet. My question is why not use the same weight bullet so you can do a better job of it?

Well, you bring up a good point. However, there is no right opinion, IMO.

I have no problem going with a 200 grain bullet for elk. But I'm not sure that I would notice a dramatic difference between that or a 180 or in some cases, even the 168 TSX (from a 300 RUM for example).

I watched a guy kill an elk with a .308 and 150 Winchester Power Point factory ammo. Shot was about 90 yards I think. The bull went down pretty quick but didn't die for about 10 minutes.

I loaded up the 200 Accubond for my 300 RUM before I went out west.

The .300 Win. Mag. and 165 gr. Ballistic Tips in not a match you want to make. It's not even a good match for deer unless you like blowing them up. Go with the Partition and do your friend a favor. Lawdog

Oh, OK. Well, good luck then.