Hey guys, this isn't a bashing session but rather a serious question.

In typical fashion, I no sooner got my 7mm Rem Mag sighted in than I began thinking of a new rifle. Now granted it won't be for a while, but the thought of a light rifle, say 8 lbs field ready, with manageable recoil and enough power to bag game up to the size of elk got me thinking. Of course the WSMs had just came out so I gave them some serious consideration. Everyone is telling me how great they work in light rifles and how closely they duplicated the ballistics of the original belted cartridges, sounded perfect. But then I got to looking and I came up wondering what all the advertising hype was about. The only model Winchester offers, that I could find, in left-hand chambered in a WSM is the Featherweight Classic, with wood stock and blued metal work. However, this comes in at 7.5 lbs and 44" OAL. This is the same weight and only 2" shorter than my Model 700 BDL 7mm Rem Mag. Furthermore, the length seems to have been taken off the length of pull sense the barrel lengths are identical. Considering I am 6'5" and the LOP on the Remington is barely long enough for me, I have my doubts on whether the Featherweight would even fit me right. SO...tell my again why everyone seems to be flocking to these WSMs? Seriously. The only weight I'd save would be on my choice of optics, and I have my doubts about whether the short mags can actually reach the velocities of a handloaded belted mag.

For the present time, when I get the money for a light rifle, it will probably be a LH KS Mountain Rifle in 06, rechambered for 06 AI, and firing a 180 gr Partition or Accubond. This with a Leupold 2.5-8 or 3.5-10 should keep weight under my original requirement for an 8 pound rifle, field ready.

FR,

Gunmakers sell guns, whether you need another one or not. Marketing hype is what sells them.

When Remington first offered the7mmSTW, they loaded it hot, then compared it to their somewhat mild 7mmRem.Mag. loads.

When Remington came out with the 7mmRUM, they loaded it hot, and compared it to their now mild 7mmSTW loads.

When Remington came out with the 7mmSAUM, they loaded it hot, then compared it to their somewhat mild 7mmRem.Mag. loads.

Winchester did the same thing.

I'm thinking of getting a LH M-70 .270WSM, so I can turn my two .270 Wins. into something useful.

George

Does'nt a shorter action HAVE to be lighter, and shorter,everything else being equal???

I recently bought a Rem S/S Model Seven in 7SAUM. I had a McMillan Mountain Rifle patterned handle waiting for it(light filled and Decelerator). That stock swap,saved over 6 ounces of weight.

It will eventually wear the new Talley alloy lightweights,once they are in production and a Leupold 6x42mm with an elevation turret.(As a sidenote I have their newly released Rem 700 offering of the alloy lightweight design and think they are excellent and weigh right at 2oz)

Until that time,she will be sporting the Leupold DD XP-100 1pc base/ring system and a Leupold 3.5-10x 40mm. In this guise it weighs precisely 7.96lbs. After the base/ring and scope swap,it will be under 7.75lbs easily.

I'm a devout 7mm Slut and have had most of 'em,up to and including a brace of STW's. This chambering is propelling 120's at 3325fps out of my 22" barrel and that rather impresses me,all things considered.

Nope,she's no 7mmRemmag,but she's no 7-08 or 284Win either. What I'm experiencing is a very nice handling rifle,that offers very good accuracy,most respectable Ooomph and VERY suprisingly modest recoil(though I attribute most of that to the stock).

I'm going to build a S/S 700 with a 24" barrel in 7WSM next and poke it in a like constructed stock/base/scope combo. Will be curious to see the differences betwixt the two 7mm's and the slight barrel length increase.

To surmise,I've dabbled with a bunch of chamberings and think the SAUM/WSM lineage offers many attributes,with zero drawbacks.

Your mileage may vary,but I'm glad I took the plunge..............

I've got the stainless MDL70. It's a little lighter than the featherweight. Go figure...

When I replace the stock I'll save 6-8 oz.

I don't think it's a big deal, though. I think if you want a truly lightweight 300WSM you'll have to either go custom or customize.

I bought the 300WSM for purely unscientific reasons...I thought it was cool.

Shoots like a dream, though. The rifle itself has other drawbacks not related to the cartridge itself.

I wouldn;t replace a good 7RM with one of the short mags unless you wanted to do something special with it. I just happened to need to buy a new all around rifle because of a theft..

To me the only reason to go to a WSM or the Rem version would be to save a considerable amount of weight. The Win versions do not do this, the Browning is a bit better but still no lightweight.

Tikka has a new rifle to be on the market soon. It's called the T-3, it'll be 6 pound and 3 ounces in standard and 6-6 in the WSM and mags. Or at least that's what Tikka says.

I was at a sport show a couple of weeks ago and looked em over. I am more than a bit impressed! They will come with rings and the black on black version should retail for about $450.

I hope to have one of the first ones in the country, and get it ready for spring yogi.

If I don't get crazy with a scope (I have a perpencity for the 4-14 Leo), I will go with either a 6 or the 2-8 (Leo's of course). Then the rig will definately go over 7 and most likely under 7.5. That will do for me. There are quite a few factory rigs that I can get to go around 8 and would dearly like one that'll be a bit lighter. And also without a ton of time or money into the project.

I do imagine I'll go with an 06 Improved (what I call the 270) and the 130's with R22 will move it at 3200 and that will be good enough for me. Although the new 140 Accubond may get some court time as well if it'll do the halfminute dance.

I would guess the reason for my long windedness here is that I think you should take a long hard look at the T-3 I think you'll be impressed. They even have a 1" guarantee if that means anything to you.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I would like to see Remington offer their 700 Titanium in their SAUM lineup and give gents the option of both 24" and 22" tubes.

Would make an affordable light rifle,with much MOJO................

Folks on this board have killed deer with everything from a 22lr to a 375 H&H. What does that have to do with the question? Simply that after all the hype the WSMs are still just another cartridge and will probably suffice for the same deer, if it turns your knob then by all means, go for it!

A light 7MM Mag is a something that should be available.

I had a 22" bbl on a Ruger #1 for 26 years in 7MM Rem Mag and it was just fine. The best part is that the balance is better with the shorter barrel.

Looking at a premium setup. Not the lightest but a keeper might be a M 1999 SA at 2.5 lbs, a 22" top quality barrel at 2.375 and Bansers stock with Decelerator at 1.5 lbs. Add a few ounces for mounts and 10 for a scope and you have 7.2 lbs total. That's a light rifle to me. With the bottom metal off of that rifle and a alloy guard with a blind mag it would be under 7#

This will be a really fine rifle. Just about the best you can get. I would rather have the tiny bit more weight that this rifle has and retain it's benefits and features.

There's two reasons to go with the WSM.
1. The short action will weigh less.
2. Its safer to load a mag. cartridge light, then a lighter cartridge hot.
That said, I had a 7mm WSM Encore barrel, and I hated it.

if you're looking for a light WSM rifle, be on the look out for Kimber's 84M offering this summer.

I've seen them mentioned in the gun mags, and contacted kimber. they will be out in june or july (according to them) and will be available in both blue/walnut and ss/synthetic.

given the 84 M is considerably lighter than a remchester, that might also be an option worth looking into, if you can wait until summer, that is.

troy

The hype created by the gun companies is amazing. Recently I had a "discussion" with a guy who was absolutely convinced that his new 300WSM was MUCH FASTER and MORE POWERFUL than my 300WM. He, and several of his buddies swore that they read it somewhere, and that all of the new "short magnums' were more powerful than their magnum length predecessors?

Now, if I could just figure a way to sell them something........

cwilson

MUCH faster and MUCH more powerful???

These guys probably have bought a bridge somewhere

When I bought mine, I was under no illusion that it would be able to do anything more than a standard 300WM, and probably a little less..

I'd say it's performance is probably going to be equal to a H&H...and that's not a bad place to be, I guess.

If I were just starting out, I would give the various short mags a good look, but I'm certainly not standing at the gun shop door waiting to trade my 300 WM, nor my 7mm RM for a shorty that is touted to "almost" match their ballistics.
They will need a much longer track record before I do that.

I understand the search for efficiency, power, and the magnetism of a new rifl/caliber. But what is wrong sith the .300 Savage? .30-06? .308 Win? The savage and-06 have been efficient harvesters of elk since they were developed. The "improvement was the .308 short actioned, high intensity loaded .308. The only improvement I have seen in the aforementioned calibers is the .358 Winchester. Put that in a Savage 99 and you have the easiest to carry and most shooter friendly gun and caliber in the world. Do your WSMs feed well without lots of work? Will they use as little powder as a .358 with a 220 to 250 gr roundnose? I don't think new is always that much of an improvement. Savage... Are you listening? Bring out a new 99 in .22-250, .250, .300, .308, and .358. PAK

Buy the gun a rifle combo that make you happy.

If weight is important but there are lots of alternatives out there as all ready mentioned. Look at the Weatherby Lightweights and Ultra lightweights for another choice. 30/06 length action with 24' barrels 5 3/4 lb and 6 1/2 lbs. I love mine.

I personally have never got my trigger tripped over the short mags. My hunting partner called me up Thursday and is considering the 243 WSSM. He really like that concept. Aaron love the 308 length so this is a great thing for him. He is frustrated like other left hander although.

What is neat is that there are choices out there for all of us

Hcliff

What is the big deal? From a practical point of view, none.

The action is 1/4" or less shorter. So?

The cartridges develop basically the same ballistics on paper as their LA counterparts. No advantage.

Any change in rifle weight is almost impossible to discern on a scale, and of no consequence in the field.

Many of the rifles so chambered have 22" or 23" barrels, so the cartridge doesn't even really match the LA magnum ballistics. The Winchester WSM rifles being the notable exception with 24" barrels. Even then, the LA magnum Model 70 has a 26" barrel.

Ammo is still nowhere as easy to find as LA magnums.

The only way I would buy one is if the rifle I wanted in a magnum chambering ONLY was available in a short magnum, like the Model 70 Featherweight.

My dads 300wsm in a new 27.5" Pacnor shoots fantastically small groups. It also shoots a 178gn A-Max at 3300 fps and that is the same as my Ultra, only with 73gr RL19 instead of 93gr RL25 in mine. Both were at 65k psi on my Oehler 43. Start low and work up.

I saw the 300wsm's did real well in the 1000yd shootoff, both LG and HG winners in score at the NC range.

What if you could get a 308 to shoot 180s at
3,100 fps and the only stipulation was that you
had to give up one round in the magazine.

Would you do it?

I did.

su35 -right on with that analogy.remember the hype with the 308 vs 30-06 in the 50s & 60s dajaue[sp]all over.AGAIN.

I like to have a follow up shot available, one is usually plenty. If my 308win only held two it wouldn't bother me at all. How many do you really need? If my 308win would go 3100 with a 180 all the better, but why not a 300wsm at 3200?

The amount of weight savings and shorter bolt stroke to me is a moot point. If you can't handle a normal weight rifle and will whine about an extra pound or two, you're probably really whining the whole time your packing the animal out too. Get to the gym, get used to it or you'll never make it in life babying yourself like that.

I've been shooting a 25-06 for 30 years.

This fall I fell and broke the stock. Now I could have gotten out my 30-06 and used it. But instead I used the excuse to buy a new rifle. Since I did plan to repair the broken 25 and I have a 30-06 I wanted an in between gun. I bought a 270 WSM. Why not?

I did not care about the short action, I didn't care about any possible weight savings. I reload my own shells. I don't care if I can find shells in the local walmart or not. Why not try something different.

The 25-06 was something new when I bought it. It has taken it share of Mule Deer, Elk and who knows how many coyotes and jack rabbits.

Aint no big deal...this 24" barrle is nice to carry


and it shoots OK


I know this aint a very hot load and some of yall can do better wiht your 300 long mags and maybe even some 30-06AIs but it works for me...and it was my money....no big deal.