I didn't vote, because there is no clear-cut yes or no answer.

If the bullet stays together and gets inside, the party is going to be over, and you'll have yourself an elk.

If it comes apart before it gets inside, you'll possibly have yourself and chase, and maybe a lost animal.

But I know, the BTs the "best all-around bullet for North American big game", they can't be improved upon, premium bullets were developed for no constructive purpose whatsoever, Nosler's new Accu Bond offers no material improvment over the BT, and this little ol' poll of yours was designed to skew the evidence, and thus prove all of the above.

Right?

AD

No evidence skew here Allen.

This is simply to poll the crowd. If everyone had your train of thought, This bullet would bounce off the game .

Re, I voted but it's a stupid question. You could make the same shot w/ a .223 to the head, doesn't prove anything about the bullet/cart. combo.

Fred,

No question is stupid.

Head shots were not even mentioned here . That my friend, sounds "stupid."

I knew some folks probably couldn't just let it be a poll.

Have a Good One

Reloader

As a professor of mine once stated, in response to a question from a dufos in the back. "Son, you've probably been told that there are no stupid questions. They were wrong, and that question of yours proves it".

I tend to agree. Your question proves it.

Chuck

Yes, IF. That's the point, IF. Why not just switch to a 200gr. Partition and the word would be WHEN.

All right Re, maybe stupid was harsh, but @ 200yds you could make a head shot w/ just about anything so I guess I just don't see the point of the question, the answer serves no purpose, hence why I had to respond instead of just vote. It's kind of like asking will the sun rise tomorrow if the world doesn't end? Uh, Yeah!

Reloader
I voted YES as I know a Nosler Ballistic Tip, broadside to vitals will kill the game you listed. I have killed several animals with Ballistic Tips from my 308, 300 Wby Mag and the 300 Win Mag. Deer, antelope, and wild pigs.
However if you "bump" in to a deer or especially an elk sized animal at close range you will be much better off with a Nosler Partition.
While in Africa in 2004 I shot several Impala from the front and the rear with my 9,3x74R, with 286 gr. Woodleigh SP and Nosler Partitions.
The PH was impresed, and very happy, as he said "That Rifle will kill game from ANY angle."
That is the advantage a "premium" bullet gives you.
When on a trophy hunt, and I jump the trophy of a lifetime, I want a bullet that WILL PENETRATE TO THE VITALS FROM ANY ANGLE.

It's not the best choice for elk, but for the others it would do quite well with the scenario you describe - animal feeding quietly offering a classic broadside lung shot... Yes, that bullet will do the job probably very well.

I always plan for and prepare for not-so-ideal shots (I prefer Partitions), that's why I say it's probably not the most ideal bullet for Elk. But if shots are chosen carefully and you know your rifle and load you'll have no trouble.

As 450 No2 said above, I also prefer my rifle/load to give me the option of ANY angle, not just ideal and carefully chosen shots and angles.

Nope, you can't take that shot. Anything except a partitiion will bounce off.

Using that exact 180gr ballistic tip in my 300ultramags(3340fps),I have killed 8 elk and 2 moose with no bullet failures.However I did pass on one shot on a large bull elk that I would have tried with a much better penetrating bullet.This year I will be using the 180gr tsx.

Looks like someone is trying to prove to themselves that they "have the best bullet for hunting in NA". If you indeed know that its the best who cares what others think? Maybe a little doubt is starting to creep into your mind? The real question should be would you take the shot with the same combo on an elk at 40yds with only a shoulder showing, or a frontal shot, or a severe quartering shot, those are reality. How often do you get a perfect broad side at 225yds?

Is this a trick question? Of course it will kill the elk unless of course it is a statue made of bronze or concrete then I would suggest a howitzer.

450 N0 2: You are crystal clear with your comments. This thread emanated from the "waht bullet kills humanely" thread and many of us repeated the same analogy until we were blue in the face. He still doesn't get it and never will. jorge

There are no stupid questions. Just stupid people.

I've killed 5 large bull elk with essentially that scenario and bullet - THEY ALL DROPPED DEAD like rocks. But, of course, many other bullets could duplicate this result.

Reloader, a 7mm Remington Magnum shooting 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2950 FPS has been our beanfield rifle to legally spotlight deer for over a decade. 30-35 head of deer every year, and all drop with one shot. Ranges are anywhere from 30 yards to 300 yards. Anything closer than 30 yards, and a Nosler Partition would be a better choice. Not a dumb question, either.

We usually go for shoulder shots, and the 150 Nosler BT's go clean through them. We had a freak occurence when one bullet killed two bucks; it went through the first animal, and lodged just under the far side hide of the second buck. Range was 175 yards for the first animal, with the second buck twenty yards behind him.

If you are going after elk, go with the partitioned bullet.

Best regards,......Jim

For those of you who stooped so low as to refer to this as a stupid question, I strongly question your intelectual ability. It may have been an easy question to all of us but, it is a question that many new comers will ask. Some here will have the newbies believing if they don't use Solids or Very Tough bullets on everything from Ground Squirrels to Elk that the bullets will just bounce off .

The Question was very well a question that I knew the answer to and it seems as if 90% of the others knew the answer as well.

It is a question that many newbies ask from time to time and it is sort of a reality check for those who seem to think that normal Cup and Core bullets of the past just will not work on game animals when infact they've harvested millions of animals over the years and continue to do so every year. The results prove that it is a FACT that bullets of this type will kill an animal effectively.

For those of you that think Normal Non-Premium bullets will not kill medium big game animals, don't kid yourself .


Oh Well, some people never learn no matter how many times the truth slaps them in the face.

Yall' Have a Good One.

Reloader

The answer to the question is..Yes, it probably will broadside like alot of other cheap bullets would, but who would choose a bullet based on broadside shots for Elk?I wish!!!!

Jayco

Lets stir the pot a little more....

A 6x6 bull is standing below you at about 400 yards, he is just even with the tree line and you can see his antlers and his asshole. Trees are too thick to wait it out...you have a .338RUM or a .300 RUM (or any other large suitable round for this distance) you have a steady rest, you have practiced at the range etc. I realize some will simply pass on the shot, some will take the shot....

Would you rather have a Barnes X or a Nosler Ballistic tip?


I believe we can all come up with scenarios that may be better suited for this situation or that situation, I believe premium bullets are a better choice, I simply cannot come up with any big game scenarios in which I would rather have a Nosler BT than a Barnes TSX.

None.

I am sure some of you can (and will........)

IV

I shot an elk at 325 yard with a 7mm STW pushing 140 grain bullets at 3300 fps muzzle velocity.

A perfect lung shot on a grazing elk had no effect. A second shot broke the neck and anchored the elk. Neither bullet exited. Both bullets fragmented into such small pieces that nothing was recovered.

Nor ballistic tips for me on elk. Nor Accubonds.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I shot an elk at 325 yard with a 7mm STW pushing 140 grain bullets at 3300 fps muzzle velocity.

A perfect lung shot on a grazing elk had no effect. A second shot broke the neck and anchored the elk. Neither bullet exited. Both bullets fragmented into such small pieces that nothing was recovered.

Nor ballistic tips for me on elk. Nor Accubonds.

Yet the miserable old 45-70 taht ain't good for nuttin but deer kilt one at 213 lazered yards with one shot and an instant kill with a 350 North Fork right at 2200 fps.

About everyother post includes velocity..Velocity isn't all that good when penetration is needed.The slower the bullet moves even with jacketed the farther it penetrates..Make a pancake out of it and it slows quickly ant thats why in some cases the Barnes and Fail Safe penetrate so well.

No pun intended other than the people who say the 45-70 is only a Deer caliber...213 yards and an instant kill on a large 6X6 Bull Elk with a 350 grain North Fork and Mike at North Fork bullets knows al about it...Take it up with him..

Jayco

quote:

Originally posted by jaycocreek:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I shot an elk at 325 yard with a 7mm STW pushing 140 grain bullets at 3300 fps muzzle velocity.

A perfect lung shot on a grazing elk had no effect. A second shot broke the neck and anchored the elk. Neither bullet exited. Both bullets fragmented into such small pieces that nothing was recovered.

Nor ballistic tips for me on elk. Nor Accubonds.

Yet the miserable old 45-70 taht ain't good for nuttin but deer kilt one at 213 lazered yards with one shot and an instant kill with a 350 North Fork right at 2200 fps.

About everyother post includes velocity..Velocity isn't all that good when penetration is needed.The slower the bullet moves even with jacketed the farther it penetrates..Make a pancake out of it and it slows quickly ant thats why in some cases the Barnes and Fail Safe penetrate so well.

No pun intended other than the people who say the 45-70 is only a Deer caliber...213 yards and an instant kill on a large 6X6 Bull Elk with a 350 grain North Fork and Mike at North Fork bullets knows al about it...Take it up with him..

Jayco

Have I done something to make you angry?

quote:

I shot an elk at 325 yard with a 7mm STW pushing 140 grain bullets at 3300 fps muzzle velocity.

A perfect lung shot on a grazing elk had no effect. A second shot broke the neck and anchored the elk. Neither bullet exited. Both bullets fragmented into such small pieces that nothing was recovered.

500Grains,

That's Huge Can of Worms there my friend.

First of all, the instance referred to in the poll was a very different situation. The 180 grain .308 NBT would have been traveling roughly 2535 fps at impact and has more mass and better SD than the 140 NBT in .284.

I wouldn't even advocate the use of a 140 NBT @ 3300 fps on a Whitetail, much less an elk.

The Fact is, when bullets are used as they are designed to be used they work extremely well.

This question was refering to many animals however it seems as if most have automatically assumed Elk was the main quarry.

Have a Good One

Reloader

Reloader,

I thought you might be interested in some actual field experience in response to your question, rather than just speculation, hence my post above. This kind of reminds me of another thread where the fellow got upset because facts were posted rather than opinions.

Also note that at 325 yards, the velocity was not 3300 fps any more.

quote:

Will this Bullet and Load Kill the animal if you place it right through the vitals??

I would not choose this bullet... But on a broadside shot in that senerio Id take the shot.
Proper placement will go along ways in killing an animal.

I love the speed will kill crowd. Then you get my bullet did not hold up well after hitting the fence post that was covering the elephants vitals. I dont know why my 17 caliber traveling at warp didnt drop it in its tracks. Dawm bullet makers.

The vitle area- heart lung area at 225 Yds. The old 270 Winchester with a 130 Gr plastic tip bullet would put down any of the game listed. No problem with a 180 Gr bullet from a mag 30 cal. If you like eating blood shot meat use any of the premium 180 bullets and shoot the game in the rear end as it moves away.

quote:

Reloader,

I thought you might be interested in some actual field experience in response to your question, rather than just speculation, hence my post above. This kind of reminds me of another thread where the fellow got upset because facts were posted rather than opinions.

Also note that at 325 yards, the velocity was not 3300 fps any more.

Love hearing the data 500 grains, not upset one bit .

I just believe that 140 grain bullets are terribly light for Elk sized animals especially when started at 3300 fps. Now, had it been a 100 pound Proghorn at 325 yds,.......

Have a Good One

Reloader

Of course I ignored the request not to post like many others here. The only pertinent part of the question is below: animal, bullet weight, speed. The question itself explains it. Put a 180gr bullet through the vitals of a thin skinned animal with enough velocity and it will be dead. It is clear from the question there is enough speed to penetrate and it doesn't matter if you gun shoots 15" groups at 10 yards from a machine rest. Here you have mamanged to get it in the vitals, there is no IF.

quote:

You Have "X animal" standing Broad Side feeding at 225 Yards.

Your Load consist of 180 Grain Nolser Ballistic Tips loaded at a Chronoed 2950 fps MV.

Will this Bullet and Load Kill the animal if you place it right through the vitals??

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
Lets stir the pot a little more....

A 6x6 bull is standing below you at about 400 yards, he is just even with the tree line and you can see his antlers and his asshole. Trees are too thick to wait it out...you have a .338RUM or a .300 RUM (or any other large suitable round for this distance) you have a steady rest, you have practiced at the range etc. I realize some will simply pass on the shot, some will take the shot....

Would you rather have a Barnes X or a Nosler Ballistic tip?


I believe we can all come up with scenarios that may be better suited for this situation or that situation, I believe premium bullets are a better choice, I simply cannot come up with any big game scenarios in which I would rather have a Nosler BT than a Barnes TSX.

None.

I am sure some of you can (and will........)

IV

If you are talking about shooting through the brush at the animal no hunting size projectile will penetrate brush without a chance of deflecting. If the animal had the brush directly against him say a limb then you might be able to penetrate the limb and kill the animal. I have tried to shoot through the brush to many times in the past with no luck to even try the shot anymore. I will wait for a clean shot from now on.

And to answer your question if I were going to try it (which I will not again) would be the Barnes TSX over the Nosler BT.

The way one words a poll can give a person a lot of useful information, or it can just substantiate his present view. This one is one of the latter. Do you still beat your wife? vote below, yes or no.

Reloader, the point is that a Ballistic Tip simply is not an elk bullet. But you can kill an elk with one, as I demonstrated to myself.

I suppose it's kinda AR-Forum fun batting around this topic, but it's clear nothing much will change people's minds. It's like fishermen and their favorate line or baits - that is, if they have confidence in their idiosyncratic tastes in line and baits they're likely to catch more fish, than if they're forced to use some other equipment.

To each his own, because all the various modern bullets work well, when aimed properly with the correct caliber and load.

Happy/Safe Shooting/Hunting - AIU

After reading the question, I realized that I've obviously had more wine than I thought....

Speaking of Accubond bullets, I just shot a dall sheep at 220 yds with a 300 Jarrett using an Accubond 180 grain bullet. I have heard alot of good things about the Accubond, but this was the first animal I had taken with it. It will also be the last one. Pushing the bullet at 3250, It was peeled back as thin as on onion, with only about a 1/4" of the base even left. This bullet in a glorifed ballistic tip. No more for me! Northforks from here on out!

No, because I wouldn't use that bullet.

Here's a real world first hand experience:

This happen approximately 3 or 4 years ago. I was out of ammo for my 280 rem. Didn't have the time to make any reloads so I stopped at the local gun shop. I bought a box of Remington ammo with 140gr. Nosler ballistic tips. Off to the woods I went.

Opening morning I was sitting against a tree when a dry doe stepped out. I had two tags, one anydeer and one bonus antlerless tag. I love venison so I thought a doe would be nice in the freezer. I lined up and shot. A perfect broadside shot at approximately 75 yards. When I squeezed the trigger the most disgusting thing I have ever saw happened.

A hole the size of both your fists together exploded directly behind the shoulder. As the doe ran off I could see a lung hanging out of said hole. I tracked that doe for a mile. A finishing shot was required to dispatch her. I was disgusted to say the least. I wrote a letter to Nosler describing my hunt, but got no response. The bullet must have hit a rib and totally fragmented. An explosive impact I believe would be the term. So I don't think that Ballistic tips are sutible for anything but varmints. And the rest of that box of ammo was thrown in the pond.

You can believe this or not. I don't care one way or the other. It will do no good to argue with me because I seen it with my own eyes. I will never be convinced that ballistics are a true hunting bullet.

While the Nosler Ballistic Tip might kill elk, it isn't tough enough for the task you set out for it in my opinion. I would not hesitate to use this bullet or any other of its type for whitetails out of a .30-06 or similar caliber. What boggles my mind is why someone would spend all that time and money to go elk hunting and use a cheaply constructed bullet to save money. Why not pay a few bucks extra and get a tough bullet? Why take a chance by using a bullet for a task for which it isn't constructed?

For elk or bear, the absolute bottom end of bullets I would use would be Speer Grand Slam, Hornady Interbond, or Nosler Partition. I have killed two elk and two black bears using Speer GS bullets from my .30-06. All four were one-shot kills.

The problem with lightly constructed bullets is that at the higher end velocities, they tend to break up rather quickly. A buddy of mine handloaded Nosler Ballistic Tip 180 grain bullets for his .300 Win. Mag. He had a shot at a whitetail buck at a distance of less than fifty yards. The bullet made a cratar on the skin of the shoulder and penetrated a whole three inches. It didn't even break any bone. Fortunately, I was able to track the buck down and finish it off. With a better bullet, that chore would have been avoided.

Whitetail deer in Pennsylvania are a whole nother ball game. I use Sierra Game King boattails for them all the time. I use the 117 grain GTBT in my .257 Roberts. They do the job.

Well, I've got a .300 win mag, but for any of those game, I'd probably move on up to my .416 Rigby with a nice 400 grain jacketed lead round nose at around 2400 fps muzzle.

I wouldn't have a problem or any second thought whatsoever taking the shot at any of those animals you listed at 225 yards, and I wouldn't care if they were broadside, or standing facing me on the other side of a small pine-tree.

It's all about where you hunt, what sort of woods you're in, and what sort of shot you're likely to get. If you're in open plains - great. Down in the swamps and dense woodlands of South Alabama though, you sometimes have to take what you can get, even if it means clipping a few tree-limbs along the way.

I'll take a big, heavy .40+ piece of lead lumbering along at ~2500 fps any day of the week over a zippy little .30 or below trying to kill by exploding blood, or as some folks say "hydrostatic shock", all into my good meat.

I can use that .416 with .400 gr. round nose on anything in North America from chipmunks to Polar Bears with absolute confidence that if I do my job behind the trigger, whatever I hit is gonna fall. I never have to worry about my bullet, and I never have to worry about angles, shoulders, ribs, skulls, underbrush, saplings, etc. That leaves me free to just focus on bullet placement with whatever shot I get.

I just don't want to lose a shot on a 200 lb deer at 100 yds to a mullberry bush at 75 yds.