I returned from my antelope hunt to find in the mail a letter from a court in Washington State. It seems the taxidermist I left my big and awesome 2004 black bear with has filed bankruptcy. I have absolutely no experience with this but get the distinct feeling from the very confusing paperwork that I am screwed.

Looks like I may never see my bear.

For certain it seems filing bankruptcy is a way to legally commit fraud. I do not believe I will see the money I have paid ($450) towards the mount of this animal.

Who is the company?

RAVARY'S TAXIDERMY STUDIO

Location: 3723 Lapwai Road Lewiston, Idaho 83501

Owners: Bryce Morrow and Miranda Morrow

I hope no one else got the same letter I got. I received no notice from these people and no offer to even return my skin and skull. Their phone has been disconnected.

This was my bear. He had a vary large cream colored patch on the front of his chest, not all that common of a charcteristic.



If any of you know these people please tell them I want my bear.

Ann you're probably out the money, but you should be able to go to the bankrupcy court to recover any of your property that is in their possession.

I agree with Fjold. money is probably gone forever. The skin though (as long as it hasnt been ruined for lack of care), is your property. you may have to prove you sent it to him, but shoudl be able to recover. If he is not even more unreputable than filing bankruptcy, lets hope he didnt sell it to somebody else.

Good luck, hope you get it back, and post pics if you do.

Ann,

Sorry to hear about your bear. I believe as it has been stated you can retrieve your bear but it might be a hassle. I guess your situation is why I pay a little more and go with a name taxidernist with a long history of good customer satisfaction. I really am not trying to rub it in at all but your predicament might give others reason to carefully consider who mounts their trophies.

Mark

The fact that you got the letter at all tells me that the records he has show you as the owner of something there...a good sign for the recovery of your skin.

I'm not a lawyer (thank God!), but I'll bet that somewhere in that letter there are instructions on how to file a claim for your property. You may even be able to file a claim for return of your deposit...or a portion of it from what's left after liquidation of the business assets...depends on the type (chapter) of bankruptcy I think.

Good luck!

Mark,

I went with him because he is/was a big name guy or at least in biz a long time. His work was excellent too. Why he just didn't contact clients and return their items is beyond my thinking. I don't think being a BIG name place would do anything more for a person if the BIG name did the same thing, would it?

It's also beyond logic that one can create a huge debt and then legally get out of any responsibility at all. I never really thought a lot about just how bankruptcy works but it seems to legalize fraud. Why buy lottery tickets? Just go borrow as much money as you can then go file bankruptcy! The money is yours forever!!!

I've got all of my contracts, receipts and will try and figure out the "form". None of it seems to be written in plain English.

This guy has probably already set up a new shop somewhere else.

And I did post this to alert anyone else who might have things with these people. Or maybe you'll run into them someday and will remember how they conducted business in the past.

Ann:
I am a lawyer who has dealt with Bankruptcy here in Alabama.
I have, for several years, represented creditors (which is what you are). I do not know how much the Skin is worth to you, but I would suggest that you contact a lawyer to help you file a claim. It saves time and energy in the long run. If you do not file a claim, the skin could be sold to pay the debts. As it is no-one can do anthing untill the Court says its ok.
Actually, all of the debtor's assets, house, money, real property, investments, guns, Art work, become the property of the Court for the duration of the case and are used to pay off as much as it, or until the Court releases an assset that actually belongs to someone else.
In my experence, it is not a free ride, but you have every right to be pissed and hurt. PM my if you want to and need to fine out anything else.
Judge Sharpe

I do not know how the game laws work in your state,but if someone was to sell off the hide without the hunters knowledge,would it not constitute illegally trafficking in game animal parts?It would where I live.I would contact the people liquidating the assets to see if they have possession of the hide or have sold the hide.If not ,I would contact the game commission to notify them that the owner of the business has game parts that he doesn't own.In my home province it is also illegal to let the hide of a bear be spoiled or go to waste so one way or another you should be able to recover your hide or at least have charges filed against the owner of the business or the liqudators if they have sold the hide already.

quote:

let the hide of a bear be spoiled

That would be my biggest fear...that the court, in seizing the assets would simply lock/seal the door and cut the utilities to the shop until the notoriously slow legal system gets around to the case. All the freezers would be quite ripe by then...

I wish I could say that the deadbeat is an exception to the rule, as taxidermists go. But that is the fartherest from the truth.

Lawyers, realestate agents, and taxidermists. All from the same mold! Some just more educated more than others!

Is it possible that the skin is at the tannery? If so, wouldn't it be in their best interest to deal with you directly to get "their" money? If you can find out the name of the tannery, perhaps you can make a deal?

Not a lawyer ,not sure if it's legal, but I'd look into it.

That would just leave the skull to get from hte taxidermist.

-Steve

As a former Omsbudsmen for an SCI Chapter, I wish you luck. My common task was tracking down taxidermy stuff, primarily bear hides. What I typically run into was a northern Michigan taxidermist that went broke via divorce and moved to Alaska (or Montana, Wyoming, Texas, or Maine). The taxidermist was in the process of rebuilding a life and still in possession of somebody else's hides and such.

Truth is never got a lot of "happy endings".

Ann,

This is a very sad story. Here in NW Florida it's so common to hear of taxidermists closing shop and running with a bunch of trophy heads that people have about given up sending stuff to taxidermists.

I assume that the "taxidermists" are selling the trophies elsewhere? I dunno but that business seems to be fraught with out and out crooks.

I hope you get your bear hide back and maybe recover some of your money.

If I were you I'd seek legal counsel.

G'luck and take care,
$bob$

I'd go straight to the fellow's house and get him to give me my bear hide personally. I wouldn't even mention the $$. Argue about the $$ in court if you like, but I wouldn't wait for the hide. If he's a half decent human being, he'll get you your hide whether that "asset" (which isn't even his) is frozen or not.

Good luck Ann!
Chris

Ann, After I PM'd you I found out my wife had a class with this guy's mother in law. It does not sound like he was out to defraud anyone as he apparently was very disheartened at having to close his doors--. This is of course second hand info but hopefully it will resolve quickly--I will e-mail you after Monday.

Off to the Cascades!

IV

Ann, sorry to hear about your bear. JudgeSharpe gave you lots of good advice. I have been through this with a deer mount. Go to an attorney and fill the form out properly.

Stubble, the bear is now in posession of the court legally. The court sent her the form to make the claim. If she does not make the claim, she gives up her rights to it and the court can indeed sell it.

Canuck, same premise. She can not go to him and get the bear now that he has filed, even if he wanted to give it to her. She must go through the court.

My hope is that he already has it done and just not shipped. Luckily, that was my case and the court simply awarded it to me as my personal claimed property.

Yes, he is a scumbag, but he probably got in over his head in credit card debt and some slick lawyer told him to file right before the bankruptcy laws changed a week ago. The new law does not allow the forgiving of credit card debt.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Stubble, the bear is now in posession of the court legally. The court sent her the form to make the claim. If she does not make the claim, she gives up her rights to it and the court can indeed sell it.

Not exactly right; Ann is a general creditor in the amount of the deposit she paid. The bear skin is hers and is not a deposit or loan or asset otherwise transfered to the taxidermist. She can recover her property, the skin, held by the taxidermist without compromising others in her creditor class.

I would not wait for the court to settle the bankruptcy before I attempted to recover my bear skin. A taxidermist is a "tolling" operation and the material in possession of the toller is not legally owned by or loaned to the toller. It remains the sole property of the original owner and is not subject to claims by other creditors.

(Full disclosure: I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer but have spent 15 years investing in distressed assets. I've spent a lot of time serving on and working with creditor committees.)

If I were in your shoes Ann, I'd contact a lawyer in the taxidermist's jurisdiction and have them retrieve the bearskin and then fight for your deposit, though it's unlikely you'll get much of it back.

Ann,
Chris and I left our bears with Clark's Taxidermy as it was the one suggested by Boulder Creek. Perhaps they could finish your work if you can recover the hide. I visited the shop personally and it had very good looking work. They are at 559 Thain Road, Lewiston, ID 83501. Phone is 208-743-4885.

I'd call the guy and see if he'll give you the hide back. You can't hassle him but you can sure be nice and see if he will. Possession is 9/10s of the law.

As a lawyer, I would like to offer some practical guidance. Instead of hiring a lawyer, use the money that you would have used on the lawyer to go shoot a bigger and better bear. That will bring your more pleasure than spending a couple of thousand bucks on a lawyer and getting your bear skin back.

IMO.

500,

I totally agree with you.

Aleko

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
As a lawyer, I would like to offer some practical guidance. Instead of hiring a lawyer, use the money that you would have used on the lawyer to go shoot a bigger and better bear. That will bring your more pleasure than spending a couple of thousand bucks on a lawyer and getting your bear skin back.

IMO.

I couldn't agree more. Life is full of learning experiences. Every so often, one runs into a situation that boggles the mind, such as the one Ann ran into. I would probably do what I could personally do to get the skull of the bear (and hide if possible) for sure, but if it started to cost me a lot of money, chalk it up to a learning experience and book another hunt.

A couple of years ago, a group of us went bear hunting in Canada. Some of the guys left the skins with the outfitter (a personal friend, by the way) to have his taxidermist tan them. A year later, we got them back. The hides had been in prime condition when we shot the bears and now they are sparcely haired. They look terrible. What I learned from this is to take a spare duffle along and bring my hides home with me on the plane and let my taxidermist take care of it. At least then I have someone I can actually talk to.

Well, this sort of thing happens from time to time. My Taxidermist, the one I used the most ended up in Bankruptcy, he was a skilled guy when it came to it, but like a lot of things, its a business that has poor margins and its either feast or famine. I would not suggest that there is fraud going on, I don't know that, if there was I don't think there would have been any contact at all. After all he did disclose to the court, that he has some of your money and property. So far only one side has had a chance to talk in this case its the Courts, Mr. Ravary and Ms. Morrow will have there chance to talk, this is what the courts are for. Its only natural for you to want to tar and feather the guy, I wonder how may jobs he been stiffed on over the years, to get him to this point. I know first hand about doing work and not getting paid for it.

Developments:

Mr. Morrow has filed Chapter 13 which seems to be the better of the three types of bankruptcy if you are a creditor. We shall see. I was able to find out who his attorney was and I phoned their office today.

The woman I spoke to said a letter would be going out as to how to recover the property aspect of the claim. So, hopefully the skin and skull of my bear (and anyone else who has property in limbo), has been properly stored.

This instructional leter will go out in a few weeks. Sounds Like what ever the condition, I will have to pay the shipping to get my items. I will still have to fill out the court paperwork for the deposit money I paid. Don't know that I will recover that but time will tell.

Someone else told me they heard that Mr. Morrow has a terminal illness. This is sad indeed. I never met the Morrows and don't know what kind of people they are but I am sure no one wishes this to happen.

My thanks to our Judge Sharpe for his very informative assistance in the matter as well. He's definitly a class act.

As I learn more details I will post them.

Ann,

Maybe you can find another taxidermist close to Mr. Morrow who will pick up the hide for you and mount it as you see fit. If you're really lucky, you might find a taxidermist who knows Mr. Morrow and will be able to recover your hide with little problem.

Best of luck to you.

Ann,

Chances are you can get it back, but if it was me, I wouldnt wait around for the courts, I'd try to find if its at a tannery or closed up place of business etc. Even a Tanned bear hide if not kept cool can slip if it hasnt been hydrated. If I couldnt get my hands on it myself, then I'd go the court route.

A few yrs back I was driving down the road past the Taxidermist that had my bear and it looked like he was moving out, I turned around and went inside, sure enough he was going out of business. Just so happens my bear hide was hanging over a chair and I grabbed it and he said you can't have that.........I said I shot it and I packed it out.......the hell I can't and it came home with me. I was beat out of some money, but I got my hide. I even went back in and got my skull, it was laying on the floor still frozen, but wouldnt have been long he was moving his Freezer. He was also doing some geese mounts for me that I got ripped on too. No telling how many people lost mounts, he had some nice South Texas White Tails he was doing too. My understanding the only people that got anything back were the people like me that saw he was going out of business and went in an got it.

Glad this seems to be working out OK. The entire Taxidermy/hide processing biz is such a crap shoot. Had a VERY nice whitetail a 150" 6x7 that apparently went to someone else and I got his 140" deer. Showed the Taxi my photos and he couldn't believe the mistake. He was going to contact the guy in MI and switch the mounts, I even dropped off my "mistake" mount.
Week later the poor guy dies in a freak boating accident. Long story short.......I never got my deer back.

FN in MT

Guys,

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions. All are of value. I too hope this works out in the end. What a sad thing though to see so many others have suffered the loss of a good trophy. Yeah, it's only a hunt, an animal, a memory but somehow the special ones do mean more.

Stay tuned!

Every one can thank W for the push to have the Bankrupcy law changed a few weks ago. It is now much more diffucult to declare bankrupcy. This doesn't help Ann but will aid other creditors in the future. Most of us don't think of our selves as creditors - I am pretty sure Ann never pictured herself as one.

Ann,

I don't see it as "only a hunt, and animal, and a memory". Hunting is my life's passion and I pursue it over a hundred days a year and have done this for almost a half a century now.

I suspect that you feel very strongly about your hunting too.

Go ahead.. Get mad... Cuss up a storm. Threaten to stomp into the taxidermists life and DEMAND your trophy!!!

We'll understand... You're in good company...

I wish you all the luck in the world but if you don't recover your trophy maybe it means that a much better one awaits you on one of your hunts in the near future!?!

Keep your eyes open and your powder dry!

$bob$

quote:

Yeah, it's only a hunt, an animal, a memory but somehow the special ones do mean more.

Ann, I think every critter you or me or anyone takes is special and as long as your skin has been tanned it should be alright. Sounds like things are on the right track to recovering it, the only thing is it will take some time, dealing with the "system"

That is one super bear by the way! I think everything will work out for you! I'll be watching and listening!!!

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Week later the poor guy dies in a freak boating accident.
FN in MT

Maybe he had another customer who was less understanding and more vengeful.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
As a lawyer, I would like to offer some practical guidance. Instead of hiring a lawyer, use the money that you would have used on the lawyer to go shoot a bigger and better bear. That will bring your more pleasure than spending a couple of thousand bucks on a lawyer and getting your bear skin back.


IMO.

I knew you were a laywer!

Hey Ann, I wish you the very best of luck in recovering your Bear.

And for what it is worth, I do believe you will get it back. Once you do, this minor bump in the trail will ADD SIGNIFICANTLY to the Bear Story.

Here is a very short version of what I mean.

I killed a decent 8-pointer on a mizerable cold day(40deg or so) a few years ago. A buddy fought his way down into the Swamp where I was on his 4-wheeler to haul it out. As he was going out, he managed to knock a Tine off. That otherwise normal kill would be tossed in with a lot of other memories, but now it has a GREAT Story to go with it.