Elkcamp--how many elk have you taken with a 270? And how long have you lived in Denver and where did you move there from?

Thanks

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

oh yeah from the angle of the pic it would appear to me that the bull was shot behind the right front?

Dogz,

I read this thread carefully before jumping in and have expected your arrival sometime ago, of everyone here I kinda figured you'd be the first to run over and give me a good bite on the leg, "Whippersnapper, need to respect old Jack O'Connor, I know you haven't shot nine dozen elk like I have so you don't know squat...."

I'm figuring that intro will pretty well provide a "short version" and cover the upshot of everything that's going to be coming my way.... just one problem....

You're late, I'm tired of it. I've wrote about all content, all the point on point, and all the pictures that I'd care to on this one. You know as well as I do, the old people aren't going to change their mind you can only hope to reach the young or the new.

Things were fairly civil though, hell even my counterparts and I even got down to trading recipes on how to upload photos and the like, so I'm not too interested in reinventing the wheel over again with one more soul that isn't going to change anyway.

To your questions -- I do owe you that:

Q/P: Elkcamp--how many elk have you taken with a 270?

A: If you read the thread, you'd know I started on elk with a 338WinMag and "never looked back" and why in the world would I? Given the damn tracking escapades and wounded wildlife I saw come out of my first three times out with fellas toten 25-06's and 270's -- what a waste -- got away from those boys (that was in the 70's)! So, I sure didn't need to waste 20 years of my life and 20 head of elk to draw my conclusions about smallbores for elk. Then it happened again with my boy 5 years ago, after a long stretch with no problems at all -- thought, I'd take it easy on the boy and start him out with my old 270 and his brother with a 30-06 -- another one shot with a 270 runs off without a flinch or a stagger in response to a 270 hit, leaving a blood trail -- a long track until dark and no elk -- left us sick. The boy and his twin brother caught on about as quick as I did 25 years earlier, the next year at 19 and a 160 pounds they latched on to my two 338's. Since buying a third 338 seemed a little silly, I just moved up to a 375HH that I had.

Q/P: And how long have you lived in Denver and where did you move there from?

A: I can tell this is going to be really relevent. Denver area since 1984. Grew up on a ranch in the Western Plains of Nebraska not far from Wyoming.

Q/P: oh yeah from the angle of the pic it would appear to me that the bull was shot behind the right front?

A: Bull, yep. Right front, yep. Behind the shoulder? .... Well, I gotta admit it wasn't straight through the center of the shoulder (again, like the thread said, it didn't hit quite where he wanted it). But I'd call it a "shoulder shot" more than anything else. I do know we trimmed a little waste meat off of that one when we butchered it in camp.

Sigh, sorry for the long answer, and that's about all I have to say about that.

Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime,
EKM

[ 11-21-2003, 00:39: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

EKM--sounds like you thought I was taking pot shots at you,did not mean to appear to take pot shots at you-was not my intent. I merely wrote it after a long day and was curious and too darn tired and too darn lazy to go back thru the long thread. Thought I'd just cut thru it all and ask some direct questions. That's all no more intent meant. Just some curious questions.

Thanks for your time.

Have a superb day!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

...never mind... it's not worth it

[ 11-20-2003, 02:34: Message edited by: Brad ]

So here's my rule of thumb:

If you can't handle recoil, use a light caliber.

No matter what caliber you use, place your shot properly.

The last time this topic came up, 500Grains told of a cow elk he shot 4 times or more with a .416. This was all in defense of using a larger bore than the .270. Jimmy223 summed it up perfectly when he said that 500 grains did not need a larger bore, he just needed to learn to shoot. I will put the experience of Brad and Mark's up against anyone. 500grains opinions are like just so much dust in the wind.

I think you should put the elkcampboy's opinions one rung lower then PDS-500grains opinions.

[ 11-20-2003, 23:04: Message edited by: Howard ]

I have shot elk with a 270 Win. 130 and 150 Gr. bullets, a 308 Norma Mag. 165 Gr. bullet and 340 Weatherby Mag. 225 Gr. bullet. A shot into the lung with any one of the rifles will put an elk down using Hornady bullets. How well you shoot is moore important than what you shoot. Only true riflemen can benifit from the extrea energy of the long range rifles. The more powerfull rifles jest destroys a lot of good elk meat if you take a bad shot.

Nine dozen elk????? Let me get my hip boots, the BS is getting deep.

Mark you sound a little bitter. You must of had some exposure to californicators in the greenie state. Elkcampmasterbaiter,you should actually go kill some elk rather then just play camp bitch. If you'd have actually killed some elk or been present when elk were killed with .270's or various other small,medium and larger calibers.You'd know that most all of these calibers kill elk,just fine. With todays bullet technology,short of the .22's,few cartridges won't take elk cleanly. The hard part is finding a shooter,that can actually put a bullet where it needs to be. The biggest thing elk camp,is throw away the elmer keith novels and the .338 bullshit and actually kill some elk in the field and not on the computer.

Elk are kind of like antelope. They tend to bring out the worst in hunters,in that people just start shooting rather then take time to place their bullets. The result in the best of cases is a clean miss,in the worst of cases its wounded elk.

[ 11-21-2003, 23:25: Message edited by: RMK ]

RMK-- I'm not bitter- a bit direct at times yes-do I like to cut thru the bs yes. I could at times be a bit wordier and ask things with a bit more diplomacy perhaps. I tend not to do this when I am short of time or short of sleep.

I, like most, hear and see all kinds of things-I am just curious about peoples backgrounds from time to time. It is kind of interesting to hear where people are from, and to hear there thoughts.
For the most part the folks that are from the west and have hunted elk most of their life have a different view than those not from the west. So I just like to ask and see where people are from.

IMO elk rounds is the debate of these years-kind of like the old 06/270 used to be. I get a lil tired of it from time to time. The bottom line is you wreck the lungs and life ceases. Be it with a big or a small gun.

So am I bitter-nope-should I shut up from time to times-yeah probably-however I'd say not anymore than the rest of us.

I work a bit in a gun shop and as you could imagine I hear about all the lines you could possibly imagine. From time to time I just get a bit of a belly full-probably a good time to shut up and take a nap eh! grins.....

My last line on this (and this is just my thoughts). Use what you like-talk about that which you have experience (I equate experience as first hand myself, not hearsay or what my buddys has been or what I have read and I also say that experience comes from use of a certain round or gun on a fair bit of game) on or with-know your limitations and stay within them (I am talking about shooting here)-shoot straight and get to the hill as often as you can.

That's it gang enjoy your weekend and get to the hill......

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Mark,

Yeah, if you convert the Dubai time, then you�ll see it was about 1:30 am or 2:30am and I was up, couldn�t sleep, was as cross as a bear with a sore paw and decided to �check the computer� to pass the time. Ended up being, kinda one of those �yeah, go ahead and write the letter, but don�t mail it until the next day" deals � but didn�t. These boys got me outnumbered about 3 to 1 and its plenty entertaining, not that I mind marching to a different drummer than most folks, and you ended up getting the worst of it.

Wasn�t justified. I apologize. Have taken the time to read a sampling of your stuff and you appear to be a straight up guy (plus anyone that hunts with a 340Wby can�t be all bad!) Sorry about that.

EKM

[ 11-22-2003, 16:48: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

Howard & Custom

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and free to write it with in reason.

There is something here that vaguely reminds me of a blue healer pup that don�t have the courage to heal the stock or even nip at them until the critters been roped at the head and the heel and stretched out OR makes its move just as the critter is heading out the gate, THEN suddenly comes in a biting feeling brave and strong.

Any specific additional contribution to the thread origin: 270/338?

EKM

And now for the MANLY Mr. RMK,

You DO make a couple of good points which I will give your credit for. Life in the city versus life on the ranch does not give you as many convenient opportunities to sharpen up shooting skills, hence I am not as good a shot as I used to be. I now want them closer and standing still and I want a rifle that will hit them HARD if I�m off a bit. That said, 3 shots for three elk in the last 2 years ain�t too bad as far as I�m concerned ("tag soup" the year before that). The same is true for the boy 5 years ago when the cow got away on the 270 hit, he was green and wasn�t near the shot then as what he has turned into now.

The rest, total twist & delusion. Of course, given what you smeared across this site, that appears to be one of the things you do best. While some well chosen words among adults in trying circumstances and in the right company is one thing�.. Reading your last 25 posts (threads seldom started by you), you have traveled from thread to thread urinating and defecating at will like a dog that not housebroken yet and then moving on. Your visit here is obviously no exception.

Just for starters right out of of your top 25:

quote:

---

Fuckers�. Buttfuck�. Asshole�. Out fucking standing�. Cocksucker�. Dickheads�. Asswipe�. Fuckhead�. Bitch�

---

And that is right off the git, first post without anyone trying to argue with you or goading you.

Perhaps most notable, your reference to our young people in uniform, and Jessica Lynch specifically (Gunsownership & Politics � Jessica Lynch blackmailed)�..

quote:

---

� �.I think she likes it in the ass�.�

---

You are an angry man, maybe someone beat you as a child, I hope not, please consider getting help. You my friend, are a piece of work.

EKM

[ 11-22-2003, 17:54: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

Well it WAS a civilized thread till RMK slithered out of the ooze and slimed it.

ElkMaster... your "challenge" is your posting style... perhaps it's a reflection of who you really are... perhaps not. You're "preachy", condescending and overly authoritative... like you're over-compensating for something . You also post in absolute terms... there's a heck of a lot of grey area in life, especially when it comes to elk hunting! All-in-all it tends to put us mere mortal's off, even if what you have to say is well-founded.

I've shot elk with the 338 WM. Good cartridge. *Perhaps* the "ultimate" elk cartridge. I have one in my closet as we speak. My two elk hunting buddies both guide and between the two of them have seen more bull elk put down than most. One has guided for 34 years. He swears the 338 WM is crap on elk and the other swears it's the perfect round. Who's right? Dunno. The point is, as J. O'Connor once said; "Experience can be deep but narrow." In other words, you can know a lot about one cartridge in relation to one game animal, but that doesn't qualify you to make blanket statments regarding other cartridges or to have any qualification to hold an opinion on said cartridges.

As one guy said; "The BEST ELK RIFLE is whatever THE BEST ELK HUNTER happens to have in his hands"... and that, my friend, is a mouthful!

BA

Howard,

LAST NAME is in the profile/email AND location listed.
Enough said.

EKM

[ 11-23-2003, 01:33: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

Brad,

I can tell by your post you've read the whole thing which I appreciate. I thought the first post wasn't more than a simple two point recommendation and not too "controversial." Surprisingly it sure did stir some folks dander a bit.

The "over-compensating factor" and the "attitude" kinda sneaks in when fending off several punches at once, in such situations one can stand up and be counted or whimp out and hide. Not necessarily an good excuse, probably more nature than anything.

I understand the "preachy" part -- tone aside, I write to the long side and this is a medium that frequently is more like a "chat room" than a forum and it don't always set well with the folks that like it short and simplistic.

I remember (oh, so long ago) when starting elk hunting and trying to apply the "standard strategies" that the people I was with talked about and then when it didn't work, they'd come back with, "Well, of course not, you've also got to do so and so with that". "Then why didn't you say so when to told me the first time?" Burned my buns, especially on an out of state ticket for a week and they are resident and have a month. So when someone new asks or is involved, they are likely to hear the "long version" and of course to the old pro's that know all about it OR do it different it sounds like preaching.

I'm not a big Jack O'Connor fan, but if he said that one with, "Experience can be deep but narrow...." then that was pretty good line. Of course, shy of having a trust fund to live off of and no job and no wife and doing nothing but hunting, it may be difficult to achieve "deep AND truly broad." Some Valid Points.

EKM

[ 11-23-2003, 02:02: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

ElkMaster, thank's for taking my post in the spirit it was offered. Communicating with a keyboard is far more difficult than face to face for darn sure! I agree getting "broad" experience for most of us is generally beyond our reach because of finances, time, comittments, season limits and/or locale! When we find something that works it's wise to stick with it which is why I'd never argue against a good 33 for elk!

Best Regards,

BA

A good 33 for elk eh Brad-ok you know me I love my 340 (or else I wouldn't be on my 4th tube!). Almost bought another one today. I still might buy it-it will give my two tubes to work with when shooting chucks this summer.....grins

You know it would be terrible fun to sit around a campfire and chat about all of this instead of around a puter. It is incredible hard to read tone/passion/experience and thought processes when talking puter.

Brad I converted another into a 338/06--he had a nice Mauser and wanted to make a elk rifle. I think he'll like it.

Gotta run boyz have a super night.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

ps had another good one at work today-some chap was teling all how the 6 was a tons better deer round than a 243!!!

Mark, you da man!

I agree about the campfire... sometimes I suspect the guys I "think" I'd like on the hill I wouldn't actually and those I think I wouldn't like I might actually find to be be good souls I'd enjoy sharing a campfire with... puter's are no way to communicate! As many big corporation's found when they tried video conferencing, there's no substitute for looking a guy in the eye and shaking his hand.

I have used the 270 and 06 on elk, and it works 99% of the time..I have seen some escape with good hits, but not many...

If you limit yourself to broadside shots or shots with only a little angle to them, the 270 works fine, so does the 25-35 and I've used it too...good shooting is hard to argue with..

My choice of a elk rifle these days is a 338 with 300 gr. Woodleighs...I can take whatever shot comes along and in Idaho the big bulls are in thick blow down timber and shots are going away from you darn near every time...In the open sage and not so timbered country the 270 works pretty good...

What I do believe is the .338 is a better elk gun anyway you cut it...

The 30-06 with a 200 or 220 gr. Nosler will get the job done pretty darn well under most conditions and both will shoot lengthwise through an elk, unless the massive hip bone is struck, the 300 gr. 338 will shatter that bone and lodge in the upper neck on one ocassion anyway, so there is a difference IMO...

EKM

[ 11-24-2003, 00:14: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

Shucks fellas, don't start agreeing with each other. This thread was really getting interesting.

I wasn't going to post in this thread but decided to anyway. When the 150 grain bullet first appeared in the 270 in factory guise it was because folks were complaining that the 130 grainers were tearing up deer to bad. At that time it was generally conidered 130s for elk and 150s for deer were the best. It is interesting to note the change in thinking when better bullets came along.

I also have one of those "Coyote rifles" ole Elmer referred to as well as a 33 caliber which shoots at least a 250 grain bullet that he so often spoke about. I enjoy both, but actually my favorite rifle for elk is a 30-06 with either 180 or 200 grain Nosler Partitions in it.

But, the last time I checked the largest typical elk killed in Montana fell to a 270 Winchester. I have seen the rifle that killed it many times, a Winchester pre-64 model 70 with a Weaver four power scope on it. If I remember correctly the shooter was using Winchester 130 grain factory loads in either a silvertip or power-point type configuration. I wish I could still converse with him about hunting but unfortunately he has passed on. I will say he had more to do with me having a 270 than Jack did and I have never regretted the day I owned one. It is a true classic, but I must agree with others who say it isn't quite a perfect elk round.

While I do not claim the expertise that many here have, I have taken elk 6 of the last 10 years. I come from the camp that says you can't use too much gun. The caveat "as long as you can shoot it" must be applied.

The problem inherent in hunting with small calibers is that we don't always get the broadside close shot.
Those of us who live up here can easily walk away knowing that our season is a bit longer than a visiting hunter. As I use a 358 for elk, and am not a real advocate for 277's, I think he should be considering bullet diameter more than weight.

A mountain grizzly weighs much less than the average elk yet most of us would only consider a 270 to stop one if the second choice was a pen knife. We are mindful that a less than perfect shot may carry a heavy penalty. Why not grant the elk the same consideration?

RussT,

I agree with your sentiment completely, although there is obviously "other ways to do it" and there's folks out there getting it done. Here in Colorado, our season (1st, high power, elk) is five days -- period. The shots you get in those five days is what you get for the year, there is no next weekend nor next month.

Regarding NeTim or other first time non-resident elk hunter. Even if someone hunts with family (no outfitter fee) and don't spend for a rifle (save the $$$ of one set of tires ) that sure doesn't make their trip cost "cheap".

A non-resident hunter is gone longer, and has more lost wages or business, the "psychic expense" regarding family issues (wife) with a vacation that is for "you" not for "us" dampens the idea of making it an annual event. The cost of an out of state license, shared camp expense, gas, all the stuff one buys for the first elk hunt away from home in a remote location, possibly hired packing fees and meat processing fees add right up. So NeTim's cost for his trip could still hit 4 figures (easy). IMHO, the non-residents have way more at stake than us local boys when that poorly positioned elk steps into the gap.

Each hunter in NeTim's position will have to weigh the versatility of the rifle they choose to take versus the possibility of having to "pass" on that questionable shot and then waiting for a "proper" shot opportunity that may or may not come along. It can carry a heavy price -- like waiting 5 years instead of waiting 5 days for the next "at bat." It's your call NeTim, good luck.

EKM

[ 11-24-2003, 22:48: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]