You know, I'm reading all these posts "what is long range" and "bullet failure" etc...this all comes down to ethics.

From what I see here, most folks have little if any. If I was a critter about to be blasted, I don't care what caliber you shoot me with, what bullet you use, or how far away you are. All I hope is that you end my life as quickly and as humanely as possible. I believe that we as hunters owe this much to the animals we pursue. I just keep getting the impression, that some folks only hunt as an excuse to use live animals as "test" subjects for what their caliber is going to accomplish, or how well their bullet is going to perform.

If you can shoot at long distances, and kill animals quickly. Good for you. If you can't, don't shoot at game animals farther away than your skill level. From my personal experience watching other folks hunt, very few (less than 1%) have the ability to consistantly kill animals over 400 yards with one shot.

If you can hit a running deer or antelope with one shot and put him down, great. If not, don't blow three legs off and gut shoot them before you finally finish them off 45 minutes after you took aim.

If your bullets don't perform like you wish, use something else.

As hunters, all we are doing is shooting ourselves in the foot the way some of us conduct ourselves in the field. Many of these posts only confirm that most hunters are "slobs".

MG

don't let the foolishness on the long range posts get you down. THe fraction of hunters that are unethical is tiny. In my real life, what is not on AR, I have never heard anyone other than maybe prairie dog shooters speak of doing what is claimed in some of the long range shooters posts. I'm sure a lot of it is to aggravate each other.

Hunters in my estimation strive for the utmost in humane behavior and are possibly the best cross-section of humanity there is.

Good post.

Just interested to know if you've ever taken a "questionable long shot" and if you've ever "shot at a running animal(s)"?

Ever took a shot at an animal "just to test it", i.e., see if you could hit it to harvest it or "ever exceed/stretch your skill level"?

Ever quit looking for one that "might" be wounded, not totally sure, so you could get back to hunting?

Dont take this as me trying to "end your post as quickly and as humanely as possible". You do raise some good points but to condemn the hunting community at large as unethical seems a bit self-righteous to me.

Thanks and apologies if I misread your intent.

There is no doubt that there are slob hunters.Some don't bother to sight in their guns.Some individuals consider practising their shooting to be a waste of ammunition.Some hunters take shots beyond their skill level.Some hunters trespass.Some hunters litter.Some damage private property.Some don't obey the regulations.Some hunters are too self rightious and spend their time judging others instead of spending their time improving their own hunting or shooting skills.To sum it up hunters are human with human faults.Most hunters are in fact good people but the foolish acts of a few hunters go a long ways to ruin the reputation for all of us.If everyone obeys the regulations and tries their best to harvest the game cleanly and quickly we should not question their ethics.

Stubblejumper,

Your post was very well worded and to the point.

I'd like to point out that I consider a trespasser a slob, as I do litterers, etc.

But a hunter that shoots and wounds game perhaps needs more practice unless he experienced equipment failure or bad luck but to brand him a slob is to condemn all but the very best shots and hunters to a life of NOT HUNTING and that will quickly help us ALL lose our hunting rights.

I say to encourage that hunters to practice more and to help them try to find their wounded game rather than to sit in judgement of them.

The next time you see one struggling with sighting his rifle at the range, offer to help and if you see him in the field looking for a down deer... Stop and help and encourage them to not be too disappointed. We need EVERY hunter we can get!!!!

$bob$

Friend, you obviously have issues with the "whats long range" thread. Get over it. Long range is subjective. I do agree with the tone of this thread, and on the subject of long range, just one of several valid subjects presented here, most hunters are not qualified to take a 400 yd shot, and most don't. In my experience most questionable hunting behavior involves things like running shots, fair chase, trespassing, party hunting, and low impact camping. It's only hunting, not life and death, and too often ethics are compromised in the heat of the moment by otherwise ethical folks. To me, that sort of behavior degrades every aspect of the experience. And hey, some people operate with a sketchy code of ethics as a matter of routine. I would guess that most of the folks that contribute to this site are probably very avid and ethical hunters. Even ethics are somewhat subjective, as evidenced by the contentious nature of several of the threads currently active on this fine site.

Cobrad hit on one topic that is a personal peeve of mine, party hunting. I reside in the midwest, party hunting capital of the universe. Also, unfortunately, slob hunting capital of the universe. I know, there are ethical party hunters that play by all the safety rules and what not, but I have seen way too many of the others in practice. Five years ago, I was sitting on a ridge overlooking the area I deer hunt. I watched a gruoop of guys about three fourths of a mile away march eight abreast across a CRP field. Several deer jumped up during their "march", and every time, all eight would open up on the deer and keep shooting until it was down. I cannot imagine what enjoyment these guys find in that sort of thing. A couple of weeks later I ran into one of these guys at my daughter's volleyball game, and asked if they filled all thier tags. His reply was,"no, we were just trophy hunting".

DGK

I have said it once and I will say it again I would rather have the guy out there hunting that shoots 2000+ rounds a year out of his 338 Lapua shooting deer at 800+ yards. Then the guy that takes the old /06 out the day before season to sight it in and shoots at deer at 200 yards or less. 99% of the people that shoot Long Range practice and shoot more in one year then most hunters will in their life time!!

most hunters i have known in over my 30 plus yrs of hunting won't take a shot past 400 yds unless the conditions are what they think at that time are right. where are the ethics of the so called 800 yd plus hunters when in fact they them selves might not know for sure if they even hit the animal they were hunting at the time . for those hunters who have & can hit the game they are hunting at 800 yds plus my hat is off to you , but you are far & more in between that us regulars . and for those of us who shoot less than 200 yds i see nothing at all wrong with that , it just proves that we can get in closer to our game for a clean & humane kill which is what its all about .

Hunting and shooting are not synonamous. I've known a number of great shooters who couldn't find a dead deer in their living room and some superbly successful hunters who wouldn't dream of shooting much over a 100 yards.
African PH Doug Kok puts it pretty succinctly when he says "I'm not a good shot - but I'm an experienced shot"

Personally I feel that the easy exchange of information nowadays has led to hunters becoming much more competitive. We are bombarded by trophy bucks, huge grizzly bears, monster elk shot under unbelievable circumstances. This competitiveness fueled by industries such as Buckmasters, SCI, ect has made many hunters want recognition even if it is in there own little region. All of a sudden instead of a personal sport we have a competition. Competition tends to fuel some rule bending, ethics losses ect all to be bigger and better. To be recognized.
I think that many of todays hunters are in the sport for the wrong reasons. They have either lost sight of the reasons for hunting or never knew them in the first place. IT IS NOT A COMPETATIVE SPORT.

VG-You make a good case, and in fact I agree. But the fact is that bragging about hunting/fishing exploits dates back (probably) to the first times humans hunted/fished in groups.

There will always be the competitive types, and that drive to better oneself is useful. Too bad some always take it to extremes.

Now the guy who went full auto on something last time I was out (next property over) spraying 14 (I counted) rounds in 2 bursts (9 then 5) is a little much! Where's a game warden when you need 'em!?!?