http://www.idahostatesman.com/110/story/68880.html
This is in line with any other big game animal tag.

While Wyoming continues to whine and cry.....

Idaho prepares to manage them through hunting....

Is there a theme developing here???

quote:

While Wyoming continues to whine and cry.....

Idaho prepares to manage them through hunting....

Is there a theme developing here???

A theme? Sure, Wyoming has the balls to stand up to the feds, and if the feds,eddie bangs, don't like it then sue him and the USF&W!

The situation is out of control,. more wolves than moose, and good ol uncle sam has destryed 40 years of good sound elk management, not to mention millions of dollars in donations and support for elk, hard work by all kinds of hunting and big game oprganizations, thrown down the toilet, only for a feel good woody by a few misguided souls.



"Wolves"!, government sponsored terrorism"!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
"... only for a feel good woody by a few misguided souls."

I guess if you consider the majority of Americans "a few misguided souls"......

But, I guess the French, the Canadians and a few others around the world consider the majority of Americans to be a few misguided souls as well.

I am shocked at your characterization of the American people...when did you go lefty on us?

Kudu56: If Idaho Vandal thinks the transplanted Canadian Wolves are ANYTHING but a direct attack on Sportsmen and Big Game Hunters then he IS an intellectual idiot!
Period!
Those Canadian Wolves were brought here by the lying, deceitful, green cocksuckers in the federal government to take away more and more human Hunting opportunities - nothing more NOTHING LESS!
And thats EXACTLY whats happened!
Cocksucking greens I am so sick of those lying, deceitful, intellectual idiots I could fry one up and have him for dinner "with some farver beans and a fine chianti"!
The green sons of bitches and daughters of whores in the various governmental agencies will not rest til they screw up sport Hunting to the maximum extent, they POSSIBLY CAN!
If Idaho Vandal wants "the majority of the American public" to be able to watch Wolves eat Elk, Moose, Deer and etc, then he should start a movement for the majority of Americans to PAY FOR and start Big Game herds in nice little enclosures all over America and let the Canadian Wolves eat the GAME THEY PAID FOR!
I worked to hard and paid to much money to see my hard fought for game herds going up in Wolf farts with no human benefit of any kind!
I say get those Wolf numbers down to the promised numbers IMMEDIATELY and a hearty "get fucked" to ANY green son of a bitch and daughter of a whore who thinks Wolf farts is the best USE of our game herds!
I think plenty of sport Hunting opportunities and the industries supported by this endeavour is a much better (more traditional and more capitalistic!) use of our game than them just going up in Wolf farts!
Thanks for nothing rmWf!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
....If Idaho Vandal wants "the majority of the American public" to be able to watch Wolves eat Elk, Moose, Deer and etc....

Why hello VG! I was wondering you might appear?

Anyway, back to the point sir:

Did I say that I WANT the "majority of the American public" to blah...blah... blahh...??

NO!

The majority of the American public wants wolf re-introduction. PERIOD.

Merely pointing out (once again) the error of kudu56's ways. It is not true that this was brought on by a minority.

I would hope that if you guys really believe that the wolf is to be the end of hunting and big game herds and the like, that you guys could come up with a better argument!! Instead of the same old "liberal---green---hippiee---democrat--left wing" rhetoric!

One of these days I am going to change sides on this forum and show you how to argue for your cause a little bit better. But until then, be thankful (that outside of this forum) I am on the inside and privy to what goes on at these "pro-wolf" meetings etc.

You guys crack me up!

IV

quote:

One of these days I am going to change sides on this forum and show you how to argue for your cause a little bit better. But until then, be thankful (that outside of this forum) I am on the inside and privy to what goes on at these "pro-wolf" meetings etc

Yada Yada Yada! Your a student wanting to be a low paid biologist with big wishes! Your not privy to anything but the privy! The wolf has not, and will never, do any good, except, leeson the chances for a young person, an old person, or a "real" hunter, to have some success in the field, and to flush the hard work and millions of dollars from volunteers, and hunting organizations to propagate big game species in the west!

SPoken like a true democrat--

(Are you supporting Obama or Hilary I wonder????)

I do believe you are correct about the lawsuits though-- before hunting is allowed in Idaho both sides will sue again--

Won't it be funny when the compromise turns out to be that wolves can be hunted in Idaho and Montana--but they will remain on the ESA in Wyoming inperpetua....

IV

Gentlemen

If we want to keep hunting elk,moose and sheep the sportman need to take this problem into their own hands and not wait for our goverment to make another bad choice for us. Enough said.

Steve

A local game warden has pointed out that it is against the law to kill a wolf but it is not against the law to shoot one and let the pack control the situation. Gianni.

quote:

Originally posted by MT Gianni:
A local game warden has pointed out that it is against the law to kill a wolf but it is not against the law to shoot one and let the pack control the situation. Gianni.

This guy is a game warden? I doubt it.

If you harm a federally endangered animal in anyway, it's a felony. Pure and simple. Kill it or not.

Some folks are just so stupid it is hard to imagine how they get through the day....

Brent

Some folks are just so stupid it is hard to imagine how they get through the day.... and most of those don't have any firsthand information pertaining to the subject. Such as a person living in Iowa discussing the effects wolf predation has had on game numbers in Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. Are the wolves really an endangered species, since they have met the human definition of recovery over 6 years ago????

0 calf moose in 2 years of surveys with over 60 females observed in each survey. Yeah, uncontrolled wolf populations are great for the enviornment, uhhhh I mean the willow patches.

MC,
Where I live has nothing to do with the facts.

Of course elk numbers are going to be reduced by wolves. And especially so in the beginning. But that's to be expected. Everywhere else there are wolves there are moose, elk, deer ect.

As for whether they are endangered or not? They are - that's a legal designation. Whether you or I feel they should be is another issue. But at the moment they are undeniably legally protected as endangered species.

Brent

IdahoVandal:

Being from NY I really don't have any standing to talk about wolves but I do now think that if the West is being built up -that therefore the available space of elk to roam is being reduced. Doesn't that give wolves a smaller "killing ground" and therefore easier opportunities to decimate the elk herds - as I keep reading over and over again from Westerners? I'm not arguing with you. I'm not qualified to argue the issue. I'm just offering a query from one of those "majority" Americans that you say favor re-introduction of wolves. (I freely concede that I used to be one of them but reading a lot of posts from your fellow Westerners changed my mind. I want to be on your side,believe me. (I used to say that if you don't like wolves, you don't like dogs) Today I now wonder if this isn't one "dog" we can do without) Not looking for a fight. Just my thoughts.

I definetly agree that these areas are increasing in human development and large tracts of land are becoming less and less numerous and continue to be fragmented, that is why I contend that the wolf should be regulated via hunting or even state sponsored control efforts. Not exterminated as many who post here believe.

In many areas where large carnivores (grey wolf, grizzly, cougar--to some extent) have been extirpated-- mesocarnivores (foxes, coyote, bobcat etc.) seem to explode and we are seeing this where they hit quail or other small game numbers pretty hard. I am in no way suggesting that wolves returned to Ohio or Pennsylvania is going to solve the small game population woes that some complain about; I merely argue that we still have an opportunity in the West to maintain a more natural system than what is now the condition in the midwest and further east. Doing this means that elk numbers are going to take a hit for awhile and will stabilize at a lower surplus than previous to the wolf? Probably. Does this mean the wolf should be extirminated? I don't think so.

Although I have been "tagged" by many as a "wolf loving liberal" that is not exactly the case. There is a differnece which oft goes unnoticed between "preservationists" and "conservationists" (which I would categorize mysalf as)

Manage them as any other wild animal-- no doubt their numbers are higher than was promised and higher than is what is desirable by most stakeholders-- but continued talk od SSS and extirmination will only lead to more litigation and a lnger time period before population stabilization will occur.

The saddest thing about the whole wolf issue is that for many it has tarnished hunters reputations as common sense oriented conservationists into radical "my way or the highway" thinkers. These same people who claim the wolf is "state sponsored terrorism" then advocate SSS which would be a felony. Even with issues that I completely 100% disagree with, I believe we are a nation built around laws and political processes-- advocating the commision of a felony to influence game management really takes us hunters down a few notches with the majority of the public which are also mostly non-hunting.

IV

IV,
I think your last paragraph says it all. Gotta agree 100%. And I think that hunters now are really really hurting their chances to see wolves become a game species. If they had claimed to be part of the success story instead of part of the problem, wolves might become like alligators - a federally endangered species cum game animal. It could still happen but it will take cooler heads than we see in most internet fora.

That said, wolves could act to lower bird densities via indirect effects mediated by coyotes at one level and the smaller mesocarnivores at a somewhat lower level. Generally speaking, coyotes are lousy bird/nest killers while coons, foxes etc are much better. To the extent that the effect of wolves will be greater on coyotes than it might be on these other smaller carnivores, they could indirectly reduce bird populations. Right now, I know of no data on this complete chain of events, but if you happen to know of any such paper - I'd love to have it for one of my classes. The effects of coyotes on down is pretty well documented in a number of systems, but I'm not aware of anything adding wolves on top of it - yet.

Fragmentation due to anthropogenic development can work to protect prey species from predators. Whether that happens with wolves and elk is hard to say. But, given the rate at which the West is being developed - specifically with regards to the low-land riparian areas that form the essential winter pasturage for elk - it is hard to conceive of predator protection outweighing the impact of 27 thousand pony-ranchettes on dwindling grass and less water. From what I have seen of most of the West and Wyoming in particular is that the winter grounds are often, even mostly, private land and they are being carved up by ranchers to meet the demand of the real estate market. Nothing like a free market economy to trash a wildlife population (I just threw that in there for kudu0.56).

Brent

Idaho Vandal: I have to confess that I love the sound of wolves howling in the wild and have treasured a couple of chance encounters with them in Canada. I thought the re-introduction was cool and was led to believe the wolf population would be controlled. I think I typify the average citizen. If the facts as they are now with the potential financial crisis faced by communities that live on hunting revenue in states that have wolves was made known, opinions would change. I live in Pennsylvania and we have a coyote problem that is out of control. Contrary to reports from experts our deer herd is suffering. When I go deer hunting I don't see many deer but I see lot's of coyote tracks. I don't think it is a matter of right or wrong but simply a financial issue with the wolves. Those states now with a surplus of wolves can not afford them. They have become too high priced a luxury. If I were scheduling an elk hunt next season, I would not go to a state with a high wolf population. Right or wrong I believe more eastern hunters will do the same and select the non wolf states. That will be a lot of lost revenue for the wolf states that will not be offset by wolf viewing. I don't want to see the cycle of life where the prey animals are reduced till the predators fall into poor health starving and perhaps pursuing other prey replacements. That replacement animal will be the livestock of those living in the areas with wolves. I can't believe the professionals felt wolves would only prey on the aged and sick. In Africa every prey animal targets the easiest victim which offers the least opportunity for injury. Almost always the young!

From ID F&GD

Wolf Report: Delisting Process Announced

Idaho wildlife managers are excited by the news that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Monday, January 29, announced its proposal to remove the gray wolf in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming from the endangered species list.

“We’re in the process now of delisting the wolf,†said Cal Groen, director of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. “We’re excited about that.â€

In a news conference Monday, Deputy Secretary of Interior Lynn Scarlett and Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dale Hall announced the proposed delisting of gray wolves in the Northern Rocky Mountains and the delisting of wolves in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan.

About 12 years ago 66 gray wolves were reintroduced to central Idaho and Yellowstone National Park. Today those wolves number more than 1,200, Scarlett said. More than 700 of them are in Idaho, she said.

“I look forward, as do all the states that have been involved in wolf recovery, to returning management of the gray wolf in the northern Rocky Mountains to the states,†Hall said.

The states are in a better position to manage delisted wolves, he said. And he is confident that states will be responsible managers. State wildlife agencies will continue to submit annual reports on wolf status in each state, Hall said.

“Wolves have made a comeback,†Groen said during a news conference Monday afternoon. “It’s a successful recovery story.â€

The Fish and Wildlife Service delisting proposal will be open for public comment for 60 days, including a series of public meetings and hearings. Fish and Wildlife will analyze the comments and expects to issue a final rule by the end of the year, Hall said.

The Fish and Wildlife Service plans a series of public hearings on the delisting proposal in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Washington, Oregon and Utah.

Public meetings will run from 3 to 5 p.m., including brief presentations on the proposal at 3 and 4 p.m. Fish and Wildlife officials will take formal public comments during public hearings from 6 to 8 p.m. in each location.

Meetings will be March 6, at the Boise Convention Center on the Grove, 850 W. Front St., Boise; and March 8, at the Oxford Inns & Suites, 15015 East Indiana Avenue, Spokane Valley, Wash.

Other meetings will be February 27, at the Holiday Inn Cheyenne, 204 West Fox Farm Road, Cheyenne, Wyo.; February 28, at the Plaza Hotel, 122 West South Temple, Salt Lake City; March 1, at Jorgenson’s Inn & Suites, 1714 11th Avenue, Helena, Mont.; and March 7, at the Pendleton Red Lion Inn, 304 S.E. Nye Street, Pendleton, Ore.

Written comments on the proposed delisting may be sent electronically to NRMGraywolf@fws.gov; mailed to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Wolf Delisting, 585 Shepard Way, Helena, Mont. 59601; or hand-delivered to that address.

In anticipation of the completion of the delisting process, Fish and Game has started working on plans for hunting seasons on wolves. The Fish and Game Commission on January 25 agreed to ask the Legislature for changes in state law that would allow Fish and Game to issue tags and set the price of a wolf tag at $26.50.

Officials are working on a wolf hunting and species management plan under the guidelines of the Idaho Wolf Conservation and Management Plan that would reduce wolf numbers in areas of conflict and try to stabilize numbers across the rest of the state.

Fish and Game’s large carnivore manager Steve Nadeau has assembled a planning team that includes the Fish and Game wildlife managers and wolf specialists. The process will include public surveys and meetings with select groups of public and stakeholder groups to help guide a draft plan.

It’s premature to talk about numbers or how the animals would be hunted. But the goal of population management would be to reduce conflicts, he said. A draft plan would be submitted to the commission for approval in May before it is released for public review and comments.

Fish and Game officials expect to have a final plan for hunting delisted wolves in Idaho ready for Commission approval in November. An actual hunting season on wolves could be months or years away depending on the outcome of the delisting process.

quote:

Some folks are just so stupid it is hard to imagine how they get through the day....

You know whats even worse,and scares the hell out of conservative me, is that some think they are teachers, people who can and will influence young minds, think my way or an F!

But then some just dream of being a teacher while actually just sweep the floors!


Bottom line, AGAIN! The wolf has done no good, will do no good, never will do any good for hunters and those that have seen elk go from rare sightings to huntible, successful populations.

As for wether or not Wy gets delisted is no concern, becuase hunting is still years away and by then, as it is now in some areas, WAY TO LATE. It will take 20 years for the numbers to balance out.

The entire issue is based on lies and false information from the feds to further a liberal agenda. I could care less if they delist tomorrow,or never, I prefer Wyomings, conservative, our state our way, versus the feds and prowolf liberals our way or no way!

They put the wolf here, not a natural occurance, un-natural reintroduction and illegal, so the feds and every ones tax dollars can pay for them. Not the hunters in Wy.

The miniscule amount generated by wolf tags won't even buy a years worth of gas for one Game Warden. Of which over 90% opposed the wolf as did the majority of biologists in Wyoming.

No good has or ever will come from the canadian wolf in Wyoming except to give flatlanders a woody!


And the above article by O.W. was posted two days ago on this forum! Just more liberal press that hopes to sway the people of Wyoming to try and force the state to agree with the feds!

quote:

And the above article by O.W. was posted two days ago on this forum! Just more liberal press that hopes to sway the people of Wyoming to try and force the state to agree with the feds!

kudu56,

Do you ever read anything, or do you just continue to go off half-cocked?

The item I posted today was released today -- not by the "more liberal press" but by the Idaho Fish & Game Department. -TONY

It might have been released in your daily rag that day, but it and another article delisting the wolf in the west was already on yahoo news Saturday. Just as a case in point, the Billings paper just released the article about delisting of the western wolves yesterday in that paper. That same article, almost word for word was also on Yahoo Saturday or Sunday, of which I posted on here. It was also posted on monster muley website at the same time.

If you do not think Wolves have brought the population of Elk down around Yellowstone in WY here is an example. In unit 61 they gave out 1500 tags for a late cow calf hunt in 2003. In 2004 they gave out about 800. In 2005 they gave out around 400. In 2006 200 and now the season is closed in that unit. My friend who lives out there has haunted out there for 30 years and he said you would see herds up to 2000 migrating through that unit from the park even in 03. I hunted there last year and we seen about 100 head. This year he hunted there and only seen about 50. Wolves have taken a toll and there are a lot more than they predict there are. They have no idea and there is no way they could. That is why Heart MT outside Cody never had Elk stay on it 6 years ago now there is a local herd of about 500 head living on it. Why? Maybe because the wolf population is not as high as closer to the park. If you WY residents need a good place for Wolf hunting if it opens I have a place on Carter MT that I know you could shoot a few. We seen wolves everday we hunted last year and I can even give you a travel route they seem to use a lot. I do not have a problem with wolves they need to eat to but there is a problem when units need to close seasons because the Elk population is way down. Everything needs to be in check and now it is the wolfs turn.

It wasn't in my "daily rag." It came DIRECT from the ID F&G department in the form of a press release.

The prior articles did mention that the USFWS would probably announce the delisting this week. They did that YESTERDAY, Jan. 29th, not last week.

Also, the release provides the dates and times for the meetings where public input can take place.

Lastly, the wolf hasn't been delisted; the announcement merely states that the USWFS will attempt to delist it within the next year. To do that means going through the process first. And if lawsuits crop up, the delisting might take longer yet. -TONY

I like the idea of one day hearing wolves in the wild but as a farmer and rancher in an area where wolves are I know this is going to be a big problem soon. We have forever altered the world where wolves and people live. We now have many homes and ranchettes where big game animals used to come down from the snow covered high country to winter so now these animals are a captive slaughter for wolves,And we are still building more houses for more people to move to in the west and further the problem. Oh well the great people of the fish and game and forest service and BLM will make another wilderness area at about 8000 ft elevation to save space for wildlife "and the wilderness experiance"

BILLINGS, Mont. - Wolves in the northern Rockies will be removed from the endangered species list within the next year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said Friday, a move that would open the population up to trophy hunting.


(will be removed) USF&W said Friday!


Federal officials are expected to announce the plan Monday, said Sharon Rose, a spokeswoman for the service. The agency also will finalize removal from the list of a separate population of wolves in the Great Lakes region.

quote:

Lastly, the wolf hasn't been delisted; the announcement merely states that the USWFS will attempt to delist it within the next year. To do that means going through the process first. And if lawsuits crop up, the delisting might take longer yet. -TONY

No lastly, the delisting will take place. It is a done deal! The hunting and management will meet with the lawsuits.

Also the state of Wyoming passed a bill today that allows gunning from the air in an attempt to control the run away population of illegaly released wolves by the federal government!