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Like many others I have been saving points to draw this unit. I currently have 15 points. In the March/April issue of Colorado Outdoors,published by the Division of Wildlife,they have an article explaining the new hybrid drawing.They refer to unit 201 as an example of why they are doing this.Below is a statement pulled from the article: For example, based on past trends, a resident hunter with 15 elk preference points in 2010 wanting to draw a Unit 201 early season either-sex rifle elk license (EE201E1R) would have to wait up to 20 more years to be in contention in a straight preference point draw because so many other hunters have 16 or more points in 2010 (assuming that half of these hunters want the same 201 license and continue in the draw). The hybrid draw would increase the 35 year wait by 3-4 additional years. In the meantime, the hybrid draw offers this hunter a chance to draw a 201 license. I think it has finally sunk in that I will not draw that unit for rifle season so time for plan B-whatever that is. Has anyone else decided to apply for another unit How about muzzleloader for that unit-know anyone that has hunted that season ? What would be your second choice if not 201 rifle ? SCI DSC NRA NAHC DRSS | ||
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Canada. Screw the draws. If it takes 35 years to draw you'd have the house paid, kids thru college and on your way to retirement by the time you'd get to hunt CO. By then the knees are shot, lungs can't take the climbs and you're taking more medications than vitamins | |||
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Steve - I feel your pain brother, I do! I guess like any system, its never perfect, and as more & more people have continued to apply, the tags across our great state continue to get harder to draw! I do think the hybrid system was a good idea, but obviously odds are still very tough. Although I have not personally carried a gun in 201, I did help my partner from Texas acquire a LO voucher a few years ago, and we had a good hunt. He did NOT shoot a bull, but we passed a couple of 350" plus bulls, saw two much bigger, and just had bad luck. Not to mention, he could only hunt for 4 days! I personally hunted Unit 10 in 2009, thoroughly enjoyed it, and shot a mid 360's bull, best I found in the 4 days I had to hunt too. But to be honest, I think if you really look around and search out some less obvious spots, you might be amazed at the type of elk & deer you can find in areas that are much easier to draw. For example, over the past 15 years a couple friends and I have shot some very big elk & mule deer on public land, in areas that take 1-3 points to draw, for both muzzleloader & rifle tags. I have personally shot 2 bulls over 380" from these areas, including a 384" bull in 2008, and a 202" mule deer awhile back as well. My couple of hunting buddies have hunted the same units and have shot numerous bucks over 200", and numerous elk over 350", the largest was a 391" bull shot 3-4 years ago. I have one guy I hunt & work with, in the past 6 years, ALL of public land, he has shot three muleys scoring 199", 211" and 214". Interestingly enough, he shot the smallest with a rifle, the middle one with a muzzleloader, and the biggest one with a bow. Not all of us hunt the same units, in fact, not any of us hunt the same unit each time we can draw. Rather we all have 4-5 units we have learned together, that we know well, where tags are fairly easy to draw, and we have all had great success on big animals. I feel pretty confident I will draw a NEW area this year for both elk & deer, its a unit that I have not hunted yet, but I feel optimistic that I can go in there this fall and shoot a 350" plus bull, and a 185" - 200" buck. Maybe not of course, but I think I have a good chance. If I get both tags, I will have done so with 1 pt each. Fact is, I would LOVE to hunt 201 every year! But I'm not sure there's any elk in the whole state worth waiting 20-30 years for. Not to mention, all those years of missing out on some other fine hunting areas in the meantime. You hit it on the head. Look at other seasons, different weapon choice, etc. I think if you do, you will be glad you did. GOOD LUCK!!! | |||
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I have 18 elk points in Colorado, and understand your pain. I have no intention of waiting long enough for a unit 201 tag. There aren't many units I still can't draw. Maybe I will draw this year, but fully expect to get my 19th point. In the meantime, I've been elk hunting in many other states, usually at least three a year. When I decide to draw in Coloroado, I will have the time set aside to do it right. I'm starting to scout potential units now in the summer so I am ready when the time comes. I never expected to wait this long to elk hunt in Colorado. With the change in RFW rules about 10 years ago, then hunting with my kids until they entered college, my points have crept to a level where I can't just burn them on a so-so unit. I'll only have one chance at this type of unit in CO, so I continue to wait until the time is right. | |||
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Unit 2 is very worthwhile. I drew last year with 16 points. | |||
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Yeah, screw all those states that actually have public land to hunt and actually let the public hunt. Too bad thay can't all be like Texas where almost every square inch of land is private and you have to shell out money for a lease every year. How dare they let you hunt in other states for the price of a license? Colorado sets aside a few areas for limited hunts to allow an increase in tropjhy quality. Most of the state is not that way and it is very easy to get an elk tag. Most of them are over the counter for bulls. Pony up the license fee and go elk hunting. How many wide open public areas are there to hunt elk in your state? Here's some advice BF, stay in Texas if you don't like the way the rest the country runs their hunting programs. I doubt I'll miss you on opening day of elk season. If Texas is so great, why do we see so many Texans hunting Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, New Mexico and Arizona? | |||
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Somebody has to show guys like you how it's done. Besides, your women keep demanding we come back. What is your problem MAC? I stated I don't like the current system as you spend just as much as I do for FEDERALLY funded lands. Just like I spend as much on our nation's defense as anyone else in the country. To get a measly 10% of the quota is bs. Defend that all you like. In the meantime, just remember, while your standing on some hill in your gomer pyle hat trying to imitate some elk bugle there is a tall Texan servicing the needs of your womenfolk somewhere in your state. | |||
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My main issue is that you often come onto these forums pitching a bitch about the way states other than your own manage their wildlife. Here’s a newsflash, the game departments of the individual states work solely for the residents of those states. They do not work for the residents of other states. As such, every state defers to its residents. It simply is the way it is. Your state of Texas allows perks for residents that non-residents do not enjoy. What’s the difference if my state does the same? You always fall back on the same lame ass complaint, Federal land. But, what has been pointed out to you many times previously is that the fact that game lives on Federal land has absolutely no bearing on the allocation of hunting licenses. The courts have determined that the right to manage game belongs to the individual states. There is nothing stopping you from using Federal land during hunting season. You have full run of the land. You can do just about anything you want in accordance with Federal regulations. These lands do not exist just for the sport of hunting. They exist to protect them from being developed and you have every right as an American citizen to use these lands. You have never been refused the right to enter these Federal lands, even during hunting seasons. So, your argument simply does not stand up to scrutiny. But, the management of populations of game animals within the confines of a particular state is not something the Federal Government controls. This task has been specifically given to the states. This is in keeping with the Constitution of the United States. The 10th Amendment is as follows: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Since there is nothing about the management of game and fish in the Constitution, the rights to manage and regulate those things are immediately given to the individual states. Where the animals happen to actually live is a moot point, but it is the only card you try to pull from the deck. You even go so far as to try and compare it the funding national defense. And that’s where you blow your argument. The difference is that the Constitution specifically requires the Federal Government to provide for the military and national defense. Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the authority to: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress So, wildlife management is a State issue and national defense is a Federal issue as mandated by the Constitution of the United States of America. You seem a little ignorant about the actual difference in the roles of the Federal and State governments. Here’s a link to the Constitution so you can read up on it. http://www.usconstitution.net As to you inane comments about:
I can almost believe that you head north to try and get some action off a good looking lady. I’ve been to Texas many times and have seen a lot of really ugly women there. You probably get tired of chasing the hags and want to try for something a little better looking. Hell, I’ll bet even your Old Lady has a face that will scare the squeal out of a pig, which may very well explain why you would even want to look elsewhere. My wife is not only beautiful, but she is also an angel and a goddess and I wouldn’t ever consider looking anyplace else. But then, that’s me and not you. I learned a long time ago that a guy that can get laid will get laid. But a guy that is hung like a second grader and can’t get a piece of ass in a whorehouse with a grand in his pocket is the guy that talks about it a lot. So tell me Needle-Dick, are you really so desperate that you’ll drive a thousand miles just to try and get lucky? Is your reputation as a lousy lay so bad in your home state that you need the benefit of distance in order to actually touch a woman that doesn’t find you ludicrous? I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be boasting about such things on a internet forum, but then again, I’m not you. By the way, in case you didn’t know it, we import women from Texas just before the season opens just for you guys. Whores are so common down there that you never even notice when we bring some up north. Besides being plentiful and cheap, Texas whores are already used to the smell of bullshit, which lingers everywhere a Texan sets foot. So, even in the unlikely event that you did get lucky on an elk hunt, you would just doing time with a punta. In other words, it would be a lot like how you get action down south. Bottom line, if you don’t like the way the other states run their hunting programs, then keep your ass in Texas. We’ll live just fine without the money you may or may not spend on a tag. Allocation of licenses is a State matter, not a Federal matter. Deal with it. Nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you apply for a license. It is something you do on your own. So, feel free to hunt Canada as you have already stated and be required by law to hire a guide. Oh, and by the way, where I hunt elk is on State Trust Land. So, even if you argument about Federal Land had some relevance, which it doesn’t; it wouldn’t matter where I and many others hunt. And there are millions of acres of State Trust Land in Colorado and other western states. Not all public land is Federal Land. The individual states, counties and even cities also control a lot of open ground that allows outdoor recreational activities including hunting. I understand how this may lead to some confusion since Texas has grand total of almost zero public land hunting opportunities considering that over 98% of all land is Texas is privately owned. Publicly owned property is simply something you have very little of. But, that’s a problem for your state and not for my state. I don’t try to tell you how to run Texas. Why do you assume you have the right to try and tell me how to run Colorado? | |||
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Show me where I have told you or anyone how to run Colorado. All I have said is that I'm tired of having to buy a license for simply putting in for the draws. You took that to a new plateau. All I was trying to do on my last post was get your dander up. Seems to have worked quite well. And back to the origninal thread, who wants to wait 30+ years just to maybe get in a certain unit to hunt? I merely pointed out that if a guy were to start putting in somewhere around his 20's or 30's, the odds of him being physically able to do the hunt were not so good. You took a whole new twist to that. Thanks for your insight on the country of Colorado and the dissertation on state v federal. It still doesn't negate the fact that anyone who puts in for out of state draws takes it up the shorts on non refundable license fees. Of which your argument is weak. We are putting in for a DRAW. We are not applying for licenses unless drawn. Comprende? A number of publications and associations offer drawings to their members for various hunts around the country. NONE of them require you to purchase a license to put in for a drawing. Get it???? | |||
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You continue to show your ignorance. In Colorado, you do not have to buy a license to take part in the draw. You front the tag fee for the particular tag, but do not have to buy a general hunting license. The state wants the tag money because as soon as the draw is complete, they send you the tag. If you do not get the tag, they refund all the money with the exception of a couple bucks to fund the drawing process. So, it's not like you're out a bunch of money that can not get back. To claim otherwise is not only ignorant, but also incorrect. But then, why get sidetracked by actual facts when you can try to spin it on bullshit. As to the area taking 30 years to pull a tag, you're talking about one small area in northwest Colorado, which has always been mananged for extremely limited tags. There has never been over the counter tags for that area. That isn't indicative of the entire state. Most of the state allows anyone that wants to hunt elk to walk in and pay for a tag and go hunting. Oh and by the way, it'll take a lot better man than you to "get my dander up". I consider you little more than an amusing fool. | |||
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MAC, For whatever reason you keep thinking I'm speaking of CO specifically. Are you some narcissist? I put in for most western state's draws. By doing so, I'm out several hundred dollars each year and holding worthless licenses that I was forced to buy just to put in for a simple drawing. It's not all about you and Colorado. Get over yourself! | |||
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BF, This entire post is about Unit 201 which just happens to be in Colorado. In case you're either ignorant or unable to remember, your original posting on this topic is
So, you specifically took a shot at Colorado and try to lump the way it does business into the ways other states do business. So, for me, on this topic it is about Colorado. It's the only state this topic pertains to. You also stated
Are you really so foolish to believe that the tag money isn't getting fronted by those very organizations? That's exactly what people like USO Outfitters and Cabela's do when they put someone in for a tag. They front the money and you in turn reimburse them if you draw. But, the money is still fronted. Why do you think those outfits charge $50-$150 to do the application? It's up front interest on the money they're fronting. You're totally clueless if you actually think it is any other way. And, none of that negates to fact that you participate in drawings by choice. Nobody forces you to do it. It it's that much of an issue, don't participate. It's really a very simple solution. | |||
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Let it go MAC. Let it goooo | |||
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Blue Fin The cost of a non resident license has been decided by the SCOUS in Balwin vs The State of Montana in 1978 and in Senate Bill 331. The is no more discussion because it is the law of the land, period. | |||
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There are still elk tags available for January 1-9 2011 @ $3500 www.scatrwd.com on the san carlos apache indian reservation.the chairmans trophy elk @ $75,000 is sold and the bull hunts @ $30,000 are all sold along with the cow tags @ $600 | |||
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scr83jp - Man, that San Carlos hunt for $3,500.00 looks like it might be fun! Have you done it?? | |||
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I did draw an Arizona unit 23 late season elk tag for this year. This unit borders the White Mountain Apache Indian Reservation. Someone filed a report on the "Hunting Report" that he took a 401 B&C 2 years ago on this same hunt. I am hoping I can have similar luck. As for Colorado,I think I will start looking at unit 10 for rifle or 201 with muzzleloader for next year. I am still 1 pt short for unit 2. SCI DSC NRA NAHC DRSS | |||
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Go to hell and kiss my ass, Tex! I'm sick and tired of you coming online and bitching about the way other states do things. And when someone calls you out and points out the errors in your arguement, you go all pouty. You'll come right back on these forums within the next month with the same old bullshit line of arguement. And, I'll call you out next time you do it, just like I did this time. | |||
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I do not draw for the reason that it takes so many points to get what you want. I opted to go on private land in NM and pay more. No need to worry, just pay your dough and go. | |||
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MAC is a dick. Whats sad is that the last time we got into this whole "outfitters suck, public land sucks, cry me a friggin river cause I cant hunt the plains" discussion with MAC I actually thought it would be a nice gesture to take MAC up to some public ground and look for a 200" deer I spotted last year to show appreciation for his service to our country and to possibly bridge the gap between our differences of opinion on these subjects. While I appreciate his service it has become apparent that he is just a fucking prick and I really could give a rats ass if he ever finds a good animal to shoot here in CO | |||
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Steve f - good luck on your hunt. Sounds like a heck of a unit! Drummond -  | |||
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Drum, Tells us how you really feel.  | |||
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Don't need your help. I'm a 5th generation native of Colorado and get all the quality animals I want. And, I don't really give a rat's ass if you like my attitude or not. I've seen my state get overrun, over developed and constantly critized by people from other states. And, I'm tired of it. And I never have said that outfitters suck. What I said was that outfitters have leased a bunch of land that used to be open to the regular hunter. This is especially true on the plains. You're either blind or ignorant if you haven't noticed this happening. I'm all for someone making a buck, but when the average guy on the street gets shut out, then we have a problem. And, I never said that I "couldn't hunt the plains". I've got access to many thousands of acres of land because my family has been on the plains since Colorado was a territory. But there are a lot of people that can not get access, and it is for them that I addressed that issue. And neither of those issues have any bearing on this particular topic. Why don't you take a few minutes and read every post I've made on this thread. In everyone of them I've addressed bitches aired by BF, directed towards my state, and have shown the where his arguement is off base. So, you can kiss my ass and take a flying fuck off Pike's Peak for all I care. | |||
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MAC - How about you make your family property in eastern Colorado open to PUBLIC hunting? That would at least help you eliminate the burden of "Leased Hunting" that you personally feel is a problem, and you would be doing your part to help the PUBLIC! You could put up a post here, telling the public what you can provide, "Free of Charge", of course. And then the "regular" hunter will have at least one more place to hunt. Sounds like a good idea to me, how about you?? | |||
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 Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Aaron, most of the land I hunt would be open for anyone that knocked on the door and asked with some basic civility. This would include the 10,000 plus acres along the Arikaree River between Joes and Cope. It also would include the 25,000 arcres between Wray and Idalia along Hwy 395. It would include the 15,000 acres west of Sterling. It would include the 500 acres near Laird. It would inlcude the various smaller parcels around Holyoke, Yuma and Ft Morgan. Matter of fact, I only know of 1 guy that limits access to friends and family and the reason for that is because he was burned by an outfitter several years ago. The lands I have access to still go by the old western hospitality standards. Ask nice and don't abuse the land, have a nice day. So, here's a question for you: Would I be afforded that same hospitality if I went to one of your leases? Could I knock on the door and get permission to hunt? We both know the answer to that would be a resounding NO. If you have a lease that you're willing to just let the public on, then I'll ask the same thing you asked of me: Put the name and location on this forum. You put your's on the forum and I'll put mine on it. Deal? Now, the entire topic of leases came about on this thread because drummondlindsey accused me of writing something I never wrote. The actual line I wrote on leases in a post you yourself originated was:
Now, that is an observation on my part and an opinion based on a lifetime of hunting Colorado and seeing how things are changing. I never badmouthed outfitters, as I was accused of, I simply pointed out that leasing has had an impact. I never even alluded to an opinion that leasing should be outlawed. I merely commented on the way the hunting landscape has changed in recent times. Now, I fully understand that leasing is a fact of life and something that will not go away. While I can accept that concept, it does not mean I have to like it or agree with it. Your opinion is obviously different than mine and you're welcome to it. Will you refuse to grant me the right to my opinion? Or, does it only go one way? So, I have another question for you: Do you deny that leasing has indeed had an impact on lands that people traditionally were allowed to hunt on? Because if you've spent much time in the state of Colorado, you for that statement is true. I read in another post they you're 37 years old. That means you were born around 1973. I bought my first deer license in Colorado in 1970. You would have been able to buy your first deer license around 1987. Based on the simple math between our ages, it is pretty reasonable to say that I know first hand what the hunting conditions in Colorado were 30 plus years ago but that you're simply not old enough to honestly make that statement. And, I have therefore seen many changes that you simply haven't seen. Some changes were good, some were bad. Just because things have changed in my lifetime doesn't automatically mean that I will agree all changes have been positive for hunting. Again, it's an opinion. Feel free to disagree. That's the great thing about America, you can voice your opinion. Or, at least you're supposed to be able to. As an outfitter, you make your living off selling hunting trips. I have no problem with that. But, I also understand that many outfitters will do everything in their power to get as much land and as many tags under their control as is possible. Lets use this topic and Area 201 as an example: According to the DOW prefernce point numbers for this year, the DOW will issue 8 bull tags for archery season, 8 bull tags for muzzleloading season and 27 either sex tags for the rifle season. Add them up and you come up with a total of 43 tags good for antlered elk. There may be few bull calves taken on cow tags, but 43 antlered bull are all that can be legally taken. This small number makes the Unit 201 tag one of the hardest to get in the entire state. You and I both know that outfitters would snap up everyone of those tags if they could so they could sell high priced hunts in that premuim unit. The same could be said of all the sheep, goat and moose tags. It they could, outfitters would take them all most of them would not lose 2 seconds of sleep knowing they deprived someone that has been waiting up to 20 years for that tag. Economics would trump all. Now to me, that would be a problem. To you, since you could possibly stand to profit from it, that most likely wouldn't be a problem. We approach this from different viewpoints, neither of which is right or wrong. Actually, it could be argued that both viewpoints have at least some validity. I have no doubt that you love to hunt. I also love to hunt. You guide hunters. I have guided hunters. I've helped many people fill elk, antelope and deer tags. I've helped 2 people fill sheep tags. You do it as a job. I do it for fun and have never made a single thin dime from helping someone fill a tag. The economics of hunting don't have much of an impact on me. You, on the other hand, have an economic interest in hunting. Personally, I believe when economics come into play on any sport, the purity of the sport is at risk. You probably don't agree with that statement, but again, it's opinion. We will never agree on many points. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong. It's simply 2 different viewpoints. Just like between me and BF. He thinks the Federal Governemnt should play a role in the allocation of hunting licenses while I firmly believe it is a state matter. He and I will never agree. But he is welcome to his opinion. Your are welcome to your opinion. Am I welcome to my opinion? I'm done with this thread. I aplogize to steve f for taking it away from it's original purpose. Mac | |||
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Come on MAC, lets look at how this thing started, Aaron Nielson posts up a hunt report this past season about some deer that were killed out on the plains and your response was the very first response in that thread. IMO, you pulled a Bush League chickenshit move and turned that thread into a platform to put the "death" of hunting on outfitters
Equating outfitters with blatant commercialization of wildlife and that being a contributing factor in the "death" of this sport we all love is considered bashing in my book. So you say you didnt bash outfitters and IMO you did Heres the thing, nobody gave you a bunch of shit on that post even though they disagreed with you. Yet when Bluefin comes on here and states an opinion you didnt offer him the same courtesy we offered you on Aarons hunt report even though it was a dickhead move to hijack his thread like that. Then, in a complete contradiction, you jump Bluefins ass telling him to stay in TX and that CO has a ton of public ground to hunt. Sounds to me like the opportunity you claimed outfitters were snuffing out for the "average joe" is still alive and well.
That, in a nutshell, is my problem with you. Your a damn hypocrite Main Entry: hyp·o·crite Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai Date: 13th century 1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings BTW, my family owns ground in Holyoke, Wray and down at the Beecher Island area and they used to let anybody hunt that asked for permission. The problem was people abused that privelege and it eventually got to where nobody could hunt there. When people get permission they use it like they own it and they then bring others that dont have permission to hunt, leave gates open, drive on wet roads and rut them up and leave trash. Outfitters didnt ruin the opportunity for the group you have appointed yourself the spokesman for, the average joes. The average joes themselves screwed themselves out of that opportunity for not having any respect for the ground they were on. Another school of thought MAC is that while 99% of the ground out on the plains is private, the landowners only get 15% of the tags to sell to offset crop loss and damage from the wildlife. By leasing their ground for hunting they are able to offset some of this loss but thats not the issue here at all and I'll save that for another discussion for another day. MAC, I'll leave you with this quote as its the quote that fired my ass up and basically cemented your status as a prick fuck in my opinion. Seriously, BF was ribbing you and you go personal. You really are a sorry son of a bitch
I cannot believe I almost offered to spend any time on the mountain with somebody that would trash another mans wife Drummond | |||
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MAC - First off, I AM NOT a Colorado outfitter! I was for years, and leased over 250,000 acres throughout eastern Colorado. I maintain many of the landowner relations that I had for years, and my former guide is now the outfitter. I exclusively book all the hunts, and guide as well. I am however, still an outfitter in New Mexico. Secondly, NO we would not allow free access to lands we lease for hunting. I'm sure obvious reasons dictate a further response not be needed. However, I was NOT the one that ever suggested such a thing either, you were! So I see no reason that would justify your exchange of opportunity. But, if you feel so strongly that free access should be allowed, I would think that you would be happy to post the necessary info, so fellow "Normal" hunters could FREELY access your property. What my age is, and the fact that you knew what the situation was here long before I did, once again has nothing to do with the present. We can only deal with the present and the future, not the past. Fact is you're right, times have changed, but neither one of us can do a darn thing about that, period! Your example of 201 makes no sense!! Yes, outfitters would likely scoop up all of the tags if possible, but they can't, its not possible, so lets deal with reality, not fiction. The fact that the tags are amongst the hardest in the state to get, has absolutely NOTHING to do with outfitters! Thousands of hunters, mostly residents, since there is a 20% cap on non-residents in this unit, are applying each year for a very limited number of tags. The difficulty in drawing this unit is 100% attributable to that fact alone, nothing else! I would agree that leasing has certainly changed things, but I would not say for the worse. Fact is, ALL landowners who lease their property do so because they want to, not because they have to. I have been dealing with landowners for 15 years, and 99% of the time they tell me the same reasons for wanting to lease their property. # 1 is obviously additional income, something that "free" hunters do not provide. # 2, they are tired of all the hunters wanting (expecting) free hunting opportunities. I hear it all the time, "the hunters show up a week before the hunting season, ask to hunt, and other than that I never hear from or see them until nest year". Numerous landowners refuse to lease because either family members hunt, or they have friends they allow to hunt, etc. That's fine, and I respect that. So there is still opportunity for those that look for it. Others could get their own group of guys together, and lease property of their own. But to simply expect something for nothing, just doesn't fly anymore. I'm sure you don't provide your services or products for free, and neither should the landowner, in my opinion. You're right, we will just have to agree to disagree. I just find it very hypocritical of some that demonize the fact that landowners, outfitters, agents, and guides PROFIT from the products and services they provide, yet the complainers certainly have some sort of occupation they too profit from, but that's ok? I chose to make my living in the industry of hunting, and I make no apologies for it. I don't advocate that ALL the permits should ever go to landowners or outfitters, as I do respect the fact that "Joe hunter", needs his opportunity too. Heck, I draw tags myself, when I can. Facts are though, 85% of the permits in every unit throughout the state go strictly to the public draw hunters. Including eastern Colorado, where we both know, 95% of the land is controlled exclusively by private landowners, and the habitat they provide for wildlife. | |||
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