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I am still not thrilled that Bob tried to keep it quiet but he did his job.

After a case has gone through court it's public record, but during the investigation it is no one's business. I think you're looking too hard for black helicopters on this deal. The poacher didn't get away with it, got nailed for $11,000, lost his ability to hunt for a couple of years and went from a park ranger to a cone pusher at the local state park outhouse.

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After a case has gone through court it's public record, but during the investigation it is no one's business. I think you're looking too hard for black helicopters on this deal. The poacher didn't get away with it, got nailed for $11,000, lost his ability to hunt for a couple of years and went from a park ranger to a cone pusher at the local state park outhouse.

Would a regular citizen of Colorado got off like that? How about a non-resident? Neither of which work for the Department entrusted with enforcing the legislated laws of the state.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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After a case has gone through court it's public record, but during the investigation it is no one's business. I think you're looking too hard for black helicopters on this deal. The poacher didn't get away with it, got nailed for $11,000, lost his ability to hunt for a couple of years and went from a park ranger to a cone pusher at the local state park outhouse.

Would a regular citizen of Colorado got off like that? How about a non-resident? Neither of which work for the Department entrusted with enforcing the legislated laws of the state.

***Again you are postulating with no basis to show that your theory (questions being asked that are basicly statements on your part) is remotely accurate. Show us statistics to back yourself up or all you are doing is making a guess based on what you feel the guy should have received compared to what he got. Some of us feel that $11,000+, loss of hunting priviledges in app. 40 states for 3 years, and loss of his LE job was sufficient, whereas some think he should be out on the streets because of his job. At least he paid a pretty high penalty for his indiscretion, regardless of whether it was as much as some think should have neen incurred! It would appear that even if the guy was fined $30,000 that some would not be satisfied because he is still a state employee. Some of us just don't agree with that philosophy.

I am visiting family in Texas right now but I am drafting a letter to CP&W and will post it when I send it to them. It focuses on a number of things but will provide some examples of why I feel Travis McKay received special consideration

If a democrat IRS agent was caught stealing from the taxpayers and was simply fined and assigned a different government job and there was evidence to support a cover up the majority of the people would be PISSED and would want answers. This is the same type of scenario

I realize people make mistakes and am a forgiving guy in most instances. I don't believe that Travis McKay deserves to be painted with a scarlet P for the rest of his life but I feel strongly that he should have lost his job with Colorado Parks and Wildlife

More to come....

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***Again you are postulating with no basis to show that your theory (questions being asked that are basicly statements on your part) is remotely accurate. Show us statistics to back yourself up or all you are doing is making a guess based on what you feel the guy should have received compared to what he got. Some of us feel that $11,000+, loss of hunting priviledges in app. 40 states for 3 years, and loss of his LE job was sufficient, whereas some think he should be out on the streets because of his job. At least he paid a pretty high penalty for his indiscretion, regardless of whether it was as much as some think should have neen incurred! It would appear that even if the guy was fined $30,000 that some would not be satisfied because he is still a state employee. Some of us just don't agree with that philosophy.

So basically, you believe that LEO's or other government employees should be able to bend or break the very laws they are supposed to be enforcing, without suffering the same repercussions that a private citizen violating the exact same rules would?

I know Bob Holder and am surprised by this. Honestly I think all involved should be fired and charged appropriately. Hate to see Bob go but this is wrong.

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Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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After a case has gone through court it's public record, but during the investigation it is no one's business. I think you're looking too hard for black helicopters on this deal. The poacher didn't get away with it, got nailed for $11,000, lost his ability to hunt for a couple of years and went from a park ranger to a cone pusher at the local state park outhouse.

Would a regular citizen of Colorado got off like that? How about a non-resident? Neither of which work for the Department entrusted with enforcing the legislated laws of the state.

***Again you are postulating with no basis to show that your theory (questions being asked that are basicly statements on your part) is remotely accurate. Show us statistics to back yourself up or all you are doing is making a guess based on what you feel the guy should have received compared to what he got. Some of us feel that $11,000+, loss of hunting priviledges in app. 40 states for 3 years, and loss of his LE job was sufficient, whereas some think he should be out on the streets because of his job. At least he paid a pretty high penalty for his indiscretion, regardless of whether it was as much as some think should have neen incurred! It would appear that even if the guy was fined $30,000 that some would not be satisfied because he is still a state employee. Some of us just don't agree with that philosophy.

Top-Gun: Let me put it another way! As I stated before, its not the severity of the penalty, or lack there of, that is the most important issue here. If you have watched the Channel 7 news "special report", and read all of the transcripts - its CLEARLY in BLACK/WHITE, that LEO's were trying to engage in a cover-up for a fellow brother, thus avoiding embarassment for himself and the Dept of Wildlife. A cover-up that includes the TOP-DOG at the Parks/Wildlife dept on television, lying through his teeth!!!! A cover-up that continued after the case was completed - but not splattered all over the Parks/Wildlife website, like they do with EVERY OTHER case of solved poaching incidents, period!!!

Had they handled it, and treated him the exact same as every other private citizen - and the resulting penalties were as they are now, most would likely agree. Although, I do believe the officer should be fired completely from working on the tax-payers dime, after violating laws he's paid to uphold - by the license/tax payer. Otherwise, I believe his penalty is fair. He poached a deer, he didn't shoot a person - he deserves the opportunity to move forward, but not on my dime!!!!

But regardless, a separate form of "justice" was not only implemented - but expounded upon by Parks/Wildlife officials, including the "head" of the dept. Its for this reason alone - they ALL deserve to be fired, period! If they cannot be trusted to handle their law enforcement duties without prejudice, they simply cannot be trusted!!

CHC---That is nowhere near what I've stated in my posts! Private citizens would not lose their job over a violation like we are discussing and that's why I disagree with you when you say he didn't get what they would have. The guy DID lose his LE job and was moved to a lower position with no authority. Even though he is still on the taxspayer's dime, I'm looking at his family and other repercussions like losing his pension that seem to me to be way more than a normal citizen would suffer over something like this and that seems to be what you guys think should have happened. That's why I feel the way I do, even though when I was in my LE state job I always tried to go above and beyond in showing a good example when on and off the job in order for people to respect me and my Department.

Aaron---You are now getting to points that I can agree with, but they appear to have been perpetrated by other people in the Department and not the poacher. If things are going on within the FWP like you guys have mentioned, then I agree and there should be an independent investigation by the AGs Office and let the chips fall where they may as far as people losing their jobs. It sounds like the guy poaching that deer is just the tip of the iceberg with some rotten shenanigans going on in that FWP Department if what you guys are mentioning is true and I have no reason not to believe you!

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Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Aaron---You are now getting to points that I can agree with, but they appear to have been perpetrated by other people in the Department and not the poacher. If things are going on within the FWP like you guys have mentioned, then I agree and there should be an independent investigation by the AGs Office and let the chips fall where they may as far as people losing their jobs. It sounds like the guy poaching that deer is just the tip of the iceberg with some rotten shenanigans going on in that FWP Department if what you guys are mentioning is true and I have no reason not to believe you!

Top-Gun: Not only is it in Black/White, its live and in color too - just watch the tv/video interview and read the transcripts as well.

Agreed, the poacher is just the original criminal element - and he was punished (despite your thoughts whether the punishment was enough) but its the handling/attempted cover-up, and further LYING by the dept head - that has alot of us here in CO, really upset.

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Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Private citizens would not lose their job over a violation like we are discussing and that's why I disagree with you when you say he didn't get what they would have.

Actually, this is not necessarily a true statement and its one of the reasons this deal makes me want to puke. All will be addressed but when it's all spelled out hopefully you can understand how Travis McKay got preferential treatment.

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Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

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Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Private citizens would not lose their job over a violation like we are discussing and that's why I disagree with you when you say he didn't get what they would have.

Actually, this is not necessarily a true statement and its one of the reasons this deal makes me want to puke. All will be addressed but when it's all spelled out hopefully you can understand how Travis McKay got preferential treatment.

Please show me one similar case where a private citizen with a normal job lost it over something like this. I don't believe the guy got preferential treatment, but rather that he didn't get what some of you think he should have. I would say if he got any at all that it was the cover up part to keep it quiet and not the fine and losing his principal job over the violation, but keeping his state employment in a lesser position.

Most jobs in the private sector will fire you for stealing from the company, period.
This guy was entrusted to uphold and enforce laws to protect a public resource, he did not necessarily steal from the company as much as he stole a public resource that he was entrusted to protect. Do you get it yet?
He didn't lose his job after he abused that trust, if it were my company I would fire him, I can't think of a company in private business that would keep him on the books.

Snellstrom, I personally know of a situation where a guy embezzled money from a company by cooking the books. He actually bankrupted the company and acquired their equipment. I am told he has now opened up his own firm.
Absolutely nothing was done to him. Rumors were that he (the theif) had some rather incriminating evidence against the owners of the company.
Just another possiblity.

Getting caught stealing from the company you work for that can fire you, as well as notifying the proper authorities to commence criminal proceedings, is not even in the ballpark of what this thread is about. Yes, he stole a public resource when he poached that buck. There is no argument about that at all, but the public entrusted the people they hired in those FWP positions to do what is right. He, and probably at least one or two higher ups, did not uphold that public trust. Since the public can't fire him, IMHO if enough people feel that an injustice has occurred, then it's up to them to start the ball rolling such that an investigation is undertaken to rectify the situation. As Rae59 mentioned in his post, there may have even been some hanky panky by higher ups that this guy is aware of and they didn't fire him knowing he would have a vendetta and would spill the beans to the authorities. You just really never know everything involved unless you are an insider in the matter!