In the test done in Handloader magazine afew years ago, the 180 Grain Power-points held up very well, right up to 3100 fps.
Same for the tests done by GunTests.
Since my '06 can only produce 2700 fps, and impact velocities will likely only be around 2400 fps, can anyone tell me why I should NOT use these bullets on moose and elk??
This was meant for Johnny other thread but I guess I will leave here now too.
Johnny,
I'm shocked and appalled. We are two years into a new millenium and nobody has told you the rules yet? As the clock struck 12 on december 31 1999 all elk and moose were issued bullet proof jackets. This put an end to broadside shots. Hunters have had no recourse but to use heavy calibers with Premium bullets in order to penetrate these formidable opponents until recently. The new way is to be a long ways away and use Matchkings on a broadside shot. Impossible to penetrate bullet proof jackets?NO, the matchkings first "pencil through the jacket" and then upon reaching the vitals explode into pieces thereby quickly dispatching the animal.
Johnny you have a choice to make. Either get a bigger gun and start use premiums or load matchkings and back up for the shot. AVERAGE bullets in a AVERAGE gun won't cut it anymore.
[This message has been edited by howitzer (edited 03-03-2002).]
quote:Since my '06 can only produce 2700 fps, and impact velocities will likely only be around 2400 fps, can anyone tell me why I should NOT use these bullets on moose and elk??
I doubt anyone can PROVE why you shouldn't use a 180 PP on elk, or moose, either, for that matter, although you'll probably get a bunch of guys telling you you shouldn't. I'd wager a few $$$ that more elk have been killed with 180 PP's and/or Core-Lokts than all the premium bullets combined.
The dead animal doesn't know the difference.
R-WEST
Posts: 1483 | Location: Windber, PA | Registered: 24 January 2001
Ringo -- Your use of Power Points at 30-06 speeds is very adequate for Moose and Elk. Thousands have been taken with it. At the higher speeds of the larger Magnums I would reccomend the use of Premium bullets on the larger and more dangerous animals. Good shooting.
My .338 shoots factory ammo with Corelokts better than any other. Big Canadian whitetail and a couple of elk couldn't tell they weren't shot with premiums, either could quite a few black bear.
Howitzer: Just to keep the record straight - the new millenium began at the first tick of 2001, the year 2000 being the last year of the last millenium. Hate to be nit-picky, but it was Slick Willie who first thought the last millenium only han 999 years.
This bull elk fell in its tracks after my friend managed to stalk to within 30 yards of it and place a factory 180 grain Winchester Power-point into the elk's shoulder.
Gun is a Browning Abolt Stalker with a Leupold 3.5-10 Vari X III
Hey, who else wants to chime in?? I had some thoughts today that I figured may be relevant.
A BMW is better made than a GMC, FORD, or Dodge - how come we aren't all driving them?
Premium synthetic oil is $5 litre, while regular oil is $1/litre. Is everyone using Synthetic? If not WHY not??
T-Bone steaks are far more tender than round - stick with the best cuts.
You can see my point by now. We can't all afford to have the ABSOLUTE best, but the good news is we don't NEED to, as the regular products (standard calibers and bullets) cars, oils, etc will so the job just as well 98% of the time. That leaves a little more jingle in the pocket for the "regular guys" like myself to take the kids for ice cream!! Take care guys.
Ken Waters said he thought the Corelokt was one of the all time great hunting bullets. He didn't know about the bullet proof vests and the Magnum requirements.
Posts: 1275 | Location: Fla | Registered: 16 March 2001
But if you want to be prepared to shoot an elk up the hind end at 300 yards and reach his vitals, then a 30-06 is not the way to go. But most of us do not need to be perpetually prepared for such emergencies.
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
On a sailing forum the common question goes like this "Is the Catalina 30 (very popular boat) a good choice for sailing with my family.
Every time the discussion ends up with "For offshore the Westsail 32 will take more of a pounding" and then the thread goes on arguing about offshore boats. This incrementalism creeps into every thread and here too when bullet are discussed.
The average person is not well served by a premium bullet or a offshore rated boat. With each you give up something. It's a hassle to sight in with premium bullets. I would much rather hunt with Corelokts and shoot more. But my smallest game rifle is .30 caliber. If I were to use a small bore for game I suppose I might look at a premium bullet.
For a long time I shot Sierras in the summer and Partitions in the fall. Now I shoot Corelokts all year around.
Nor do I buy the assumption that the premium bullets always perform better!
Any other "average" type hunters on the board?? With average calibers, and average incomes?? Using average bullets, scopes and knives?? Speak out if you're here.
One more average here, it almost seems Canadian use regular bullets & our yank friend use premium. I have always had good luck with Horn SP because of the $$, couple years ago got some Rem Core Locks in bulk, shot some moose & deer with them, now split between the 2, whichever shoots in the gun of the day. I have also found Rems in general to be VERY good shooters.
I've shot most of my animals with the Winchester Power Point though a 30-06. This year I tried Hornady 180 gr SP on a moose though my 300 Win Mag and it drop to the ground instantly. I've never seen a moose hit the ground so fast in my life. I believe I have only shot on moose with the Core Lokt round though the 30-06 and it work good as well. I have been buying the PP's for reloading now since they are great value.
I don't recommend the factory loads is 8mm Mauser for deer. Don't expand much, even at close range. All but shoot through a moose though, at close range.
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002
I have not had a failure with a power point or a Corelokt...I don't use them much these days as I feel the Nosler and a few other premiums are just a little better and the cost of a bullet is not of great importance to me......I used them both for many years. I think they lack the penitration of some of the premiums, but they usually came to rest on the off side skin, and some prefer that to complete penitration...I, on the otherhand, prefer two holes and the Nosler gets that about 95 percent of the time.
Posts: 42314 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
I'm pretty average JohnnyRingo, I use a 270, 308, 30'06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, and a 275 Rigby (7x57 Mauser), 300 Sherwood etc. That's average, I just have my priorities right.
I used the 338 with the 250 gr. Remington Corelockt factory load to take a 5x6 Elk in December at about 110 yds, bullet passed through and Elk went down in about 10-15 feet. In all the others I use Hornady SST's or Interlocks, except the 300 Sherwood, had to get custom Hawk .300" bullets made for it.
Posts: 1242 | Location: Houston, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2002
I am average and have average guns. I kill most of my big game with an arrow, at 40 yards or less, so 300 yards or less shouldn't be too hard. I do have 30-06, and a 300 wm, but I bought it to say I have it, not because I need it. In anything over 2900fps, I will load premiums, but I would not ever be concerned carrying a 30-06 with Rem Coreloks for elk . I do like Noslers though and load them for the magnum speeds. No expert, just love to hunt! Good shoot'n!
You know, I saw Bill's post and picture a ways up the thread and I don't know how he did it. A Power-point AND a Browning A-Bolt......now there's a combination some say will never work. Just keep using them. They work fine.
Posts: 3942 | Location: Kansas USA | Registered: 04 February 2002
Exactly -no one in there right mind shoots an elk in the arse with the first shot!!!! Thoose that do don't know how to hunt or shouldn't be hunting. Or definately paid to much to hunt- can't stand not to fill a tag? Shoot those Speer BT's kill them just as quick in my puny '06
I have the copies of Gun Tests that reported the Power Point bullets against the other popular makes. Their first choice was not the Power Point load in the 30'06, the .308, or the .300 Win Magnum. Why ? Well, do you want to be limited in the performace of your 20 cent bullet on this big animal you've gone to much trouble to harvest ? The premiums allow for a wider range of choices. I have a good friend that shot lenth wise through a large bull elk with a 250 gr. Nosler Partition out of his .338 Win. Magnum. That's all the way through. Need a blood trail ? He was smart enough to miss the stomach, BTW. I've got another buddy that shot through both shoulders of a large Alaskan Moose with a 230 gr. Fail Safe from his .338. Again, all the way through and out. Need to keep your Moose from dying in knee deep freezing water ? Think your Power Point can do that ? I've shot enough elk class stuff with both premiums and conventional bullets to know the difference. I don't worry about breaking shoulders, or bad angle shots. I see no point in saving a few pennys on cheap bullets, and limiting my choice of shots. I don't need to use magnum cartirages either. E
Posts: 1022 | Location: Placerville,CA,USA | Registered: 28 May 2002
Eremicus, I never said that Gun Tests rated Power-points as first choice. They did however, rate them BEST of the non-premiums,in the .300 Win Mag, and said "if you are on a budget, this is the bullet for you".
I'd be interested in hearing some of the failures you have experienced with the Power-point.
I am looking for info, good or bad.
[ 01-24-2003, 05:40: Message edited by: Johnny Ringo ]
I'm going to have to side with Eremicus. Why would you take a knife to a gun fight. I know you are on a budget and the power points are cheaper and MIGHT get the job done, especially on a quartering shot. You dont always get a broadside shot. Use the power points to sight in your gun, and take the best bullets you can afford. How much do you spend going hunting, licence, food, gas, munchies only to use lesser, cheaper bullets. I say, save your money by not buying munchies and buy one box of premium bullets. They might cost you $10.00 more than the pp's, but will bring home the bacon and that is what you put all that money into the hunt for. Whatever your choice. Good Luck!
Once a King always a King but once a night is enough.
Can I play too? I'm anything but average, I'm a freaking genius and astonishingly handsome. I tend to use the Failsafes in my 338, but have used PowerPoints in my 300 Win Mag, 338, 7x57 and have used Core-locs in an 8 mag that I had once upon a time. Never had one failure. The 338 gets used when I'm around around big bear country and that's the reason it gets with the FailSafes. Other rifles get whichever proven hunting bullet shoots the best from them.
Sounds like you have a winner combination in your rifle, loads and bullets. Continue with what you have confidence in. Nothing wrong with a PowerPoint in my book.
Posts: 1508 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 09 August 2002
As an average hunter I will say this; I have yet to use a premium bullet. For factory loads I like the 150gr corelocts in my 270 and 150 gr Win soft points in my 308. No bullet failures on whitetails, mostly one shot kills, and if they weren't one shot kills it wasn't the bullet's fault. When I handload it is normally the Hornady Interlock 130 gr in the 270, and the 150 gr in the 308. Again no failures.
That said, I think I will fall for some marketing hype and try the new Hornady Interbond's this fall.
Posts: 30 | Location: central NY | Registered: 22 January 2003
You should not use power points because they are not cool! If nothing else you should at least have one Swift A-frame which can be prominently displayed while you hunt with the power points. Think about it. You shoot a big 6x6 bull and while dressing it out you are approached by another hunter. "Nice bull!", he says, "What'd ya shoot it with?" "30/06", you reply. "Oh". He sounds disappointed. "What bullet?" Here is your chance to regain lost stature by proclaiming, "Well, today I'm shooting the Kill-X super premium bonded bullet with moly coating and iridium enchanced primary expansion nodule". But no, it isn't to be. Instead, you hang your head, scuff your feet, and mumble, "pwr pnt". "What's that? I didn't hear you". " I said Power point". By now your face is flushed with embarassment. "What the hell's a Power Point?" he asks. He looks puzzled. "It's a Winchester factory bullet", you admit. "Well, I guess it was just that bull's time to go", he says wonderingly,"and your lucky day!" So there you have it. If you want to live this scenario you just keep right on using those Power Points. You have my sympathy. Regards, Bill.
Where was it that I read something to the effect that "there is not any product that cannot be made cheaper and those who give such products their business become victims of poor quality" or something like that. Methinks there is a flip side to that philosophy, just because something costs more doesnt nessesarily make it better and those who believe that it should be as such, may well be victims of propaganda.
As long as I keep getting exit holes with AVERAGE bullets like hornadys, Speers, and Sierras I dont see where lack of penetration is such a big concern.
I agree with Yukon Jack, where bullets are concerned, dangerous game is where I would draw the line and go with something I am very confident in, like a VERY BIG Hornady, Speer etc..
Posts: 10190 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
I believe I'll stick with the Power-points for all game in the 30.06 until Speer -Deep shoks are on the shelf...or maybe the Interbond, if priced reasonably.
Until then, I suppose there may be one or two occasions were I have to "hang my head" over using power-points.
[ 01-26-2003, 23:30: Message edited by: Johnny Ringo ]
Unfortunately,I have had a bad experiance with a powerpoint.I shot a whitetail buck(about 175 lbs.)with a 100 gn. powerpoint out of a .243.Range was about 50 yards.At the shot the deer bounded away and the it was apparent that he was hit.He ran behind some deadfalls where I could'nt see him.I waited to see if he would show himself.I then heard him fall.Walked on over and there he lay dead.Closer examination revealed that the bullet had been placed perfectly right behind the shoulder into the ribs on a broadside angle.The bullet exploded on contact, and caused a tennis ball sized hole in the hide only.The vitals were untouched.A fragment entered the backside of the shoulder and broke it as well as apparantly severing a major artery.The deer bled out and died quickly.I still consider this to be bullet failure and were it not for some extraordinary circumstances this deer would have run off with a nasty wound.Granted this was a .243 and not a 30 cal.Still,I used cor-lokts this year in the same rifle and had no problems.Regards.
Posts: 58 | Location: Charlotte,NC,USA | Registered: 24 April 2002
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Just keep using them. They work fine.
