I sometimes bone out the od deer carcass and take it down to the local butchers for them to make me sausages and burgers. The guys sauages are quite good but has burgers are terrible; when cooked they come out like carpet tiles! Even my dog can only manage half a one! Any ideas why? I can make burgers myself at home and they come out ok, but I assume a butcher will do things differently.

Regards,

Pete

Are they adding beef fat to your burger,if they are try adding more. This will make all of the difference in the world!

Doug

You would think that the butcher would automatically add beef or pork fat to your grind.Does not sound like it . Some people get extremely upset if you add any fat to their burger without asking.Your butcher may assume that if you wanted added fat that you would ask for it. Venison would benefit from fat added from 20-30 % to make it very juicy and tasty.Also they may not be adding any seasoning to the mix.Time for a chat with your butcher.It is in his best interest to make sure that you are happy with the hard earned game that you trusted to him.
Turnerhunter

Interesting-while I prefer antelope and elk deer burgers are generally not an issue.

I'd agree with the other posters-time to check into a few things.

I personally add just enough fat to keep the burgers together on the grill, this is generally about 5-10%.

If you are overcooking them a bit (my grandma used to like to kill em again on the grill if you know what I mean) then that will ruin things a bit.

Good topic-thanks for posting it.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

To overcook is no good.

I only have moose at the moment,I mince and freeze quite a lot of it, no added fat. Same with canning, I have compared with up to 30% pork- 70% moose but I can it plain. It is never dry or hard. Spices,of course.

I do love bacon and pork. But well aged meat just does not really need added fat IMO. So, back to burgers:

I make the dough by adding eggs,spices,cream and breadcrumbs. Again,no added pork. Just fry them in butter, medium to lo heat, don�t overdo. Makes great meatballs as well. You may want to try high heat too, for a very short time in the beginning. Different people,different tastes.

If there is a difference betwixt your grind and the butcher's grind, I would tend to think that it is in how coarse the grind is. Ask the butcher to use a coarser grinder (or finer).

Meat has a natural affinity for itself (it somewhat glues to itself). If you grind finer, it changes the texture of the finished product by creating more contact area.

As far as burgers, I rank things: moose, elk, deer, antelope, though antelope backstraps rank first.

I add egg and breadcrumbs to my burgers to improve texture. Try it, I think you might like it. One egg per lb of meat, and enough breadcrumbs to soak up the fluids. Use your favorite Swedish meatball seasonings, and stand back for the rave reviews.... HTH, Dutch.

I agree with everyone who has suggested adding eggs, spices, etc. to improve burgers. I do this even with beef, as a matter of course.

If you have a batch of ground venison with no fat added, you can still solve the problem yourself by adding cooking oil or olive oil to the mix, along with your eggs, breadcrumbs or whatever. It works well, and is much easier to distribute evenly through the mix yourself.

I'd agree that a fine grind is desirable. One overlooked aspect of grinding wild meat is the "toughness" which isn't as noticeable in domestic meat. Butchers unused to the texture might be content to run it through once, but I don't think that's enough.

My taxidermist runs a butcher shop and they grind the meat at least twice. That is, once passed through the grinder, the pan is dumped back on the tray and run through again. The final appearance is definitely finer and more homogenous than the first pass.

On the subject of adding beef or pork fat, I'd rather not get mine with anything added. Part of the attraction, for me anyway, is the lean character. Like "Dutch", we add a little egg and breadcrumbs to bind it.

Overcooking wild game, especially burgers, is rampant, and hard not to do. IMHO, if venison is to taste it's best, it needs to be removed from the grill while it is still rather pink in the middle - for some reason it tends to continue to cook a little even after being removed from heat.

Deer burger........

1. Remove all wild fat. It tastes bad.

2. Add back with pork or beef fat.

3. If you live in a region that does not have the viral/prion- mad cow disease, don't cook them to well done. Nothing worse than well done meat.

First off: pay attention to what TurnerHunter is telling you.
Over cooking is bad, dries out an already dry, lean berger.
Egg and bread crumbs make a great binder, try some finely chopped onions in that mix some time.
As it cooks it adds a little moisture to the meat, tones down any strong or wild flavor and sweetens the meat!

[ 08-28-2003, 21:02: Message edited by: Marsh Mule ]

For game pasta sauce find a recipe for Bolognese Sauce delicious. Unless the amounts are very large it's easy to grind it yourself with anywhere from hand grinder to motorized like the one I have on my Kitchen Aid mixer.

Interesting. We think venison makes burger as good as buffalo.

1) We field dress so that the minimum incision is made so that crud does not get into the body cavity while the deer is being removed from the woods. I try to get the game hanging and quartered as quickly and as cleanly as possible. We age all the meat by putting the very clean quarters in plastic bags and refrigerating for 7 to 10 days. Change the bags every other day. Watch the meat closely.

2) All the fat is taken off during further packing. Venison fat melts at a temperature above human body temp ... so it tastes BAD and has a very odd texture.

3) We mix 15 to 18 % high quality beef fat in with the meat as it is ground. We get it at Krogers by asking for it ahead of time.

4) We double grind the meat for burger and sausage. Burger meat is ground once through coarse plates, and the last time through fine plates. If you use fine plates both passes the output is pasty and has no texture as it is eaten.

My sincere thanks to Mike Alexander for teaching me to do all this. As a result of being layed off (retire early) we'ved lived on venison for last three years. Venison is great stuff properly done. Does not require heavy spicing of marinading.

[ 08-28-2003, 22:48: Message edited by: mstarling ]

Sorry ... double tap. Works much better on the range!

[ 08-29-2003, 03:12: Message edited by: mstarling ]

On the issue of fat, I have tried both pork and beef fat. I very much prefer beef fat, because it produces a less greasy, more tasy product.

I really, really can't even imagine adding beef fat to my venison. That's just pure sacrilege. It does NOT make things taste better, it just makes it taste more like cattle. Yuk. Eew. Shudder. I had a processor add pork to my elk sausage once. He happened to be a business partner at the time, but we had a few words over that.... FWIW, Dutch.

I'm guessing you're over cooking your burgers.
Venison should be served pretty rare, or it gets quite tough.

I don't like beef fat added. Pork fat aint bad. Try grinding about 1 part pork shoulder with 2 - 3 parts venison. Gives it a little fat to fry up with.

Last year we made italian sausage from a bunch of the burger and it went over well. Everybody liked it.

I butcher my own and would recommend you do the same. A single deer is a piece of cake. The only serious equipment needed is a small electric grinder which can be had for under $100. Other than that; knives, cutting boards, wrapping paper, etc. are all that's needed.
You get better quality control, you know you're eating your own deer, everything can be kept real clean, you de-bone everything, and you process it the way you like.

Thanks for the advice guys!

I suspect that my butcher is using a very fine grind on my meat and is not adding any fat. My mate who also had some done described them as "very dense"...We don't think its the cooking as we have tried a couple of different ways (frying and grilling, slow and fast) and they always come out pretty much the same. When his Lab and my terrier have trouble chewing them, you know they are tough!

I generally add egg, bread crumbs, grated onion and a little fat to my home mix along with what ever herbs or spices I fancy trying. The "fat" can vary from ground up streaky bacon, to beef dripping to lard or olive oil depending whats on hand...While I would not claim they are the best venison burgers in the world, they are very tasty, "moist" and there are never any left over for the dogs to do the chew test!

I may have a chat with the butcher, but perhaps I will concentrate on doing my own,

Regards,

Pete

Earlier in the thread Dutch mentioned that meat has an affinity for itself and sort of glues together.This is known as "bind".There is a protein in meat called myosin,and this is the glue.There are a few good ways to bring out the myosin and so that your burger sticks together and does not fall apart like taco meat.
Myosin can be extracted by grinding the meat.It also more readily comes out when in the presence of salt.The biggest aid to removing it is to keep it quite cold 34-45 F.
We have all seen recipes for burger that ask us to work or knead the meat.This is to bring out the myosin and give us a finished product closer to a sausage than just ground meat.They also tell you not to work it too long.Why? Because your hands are warm and if this meat gets above 50 f then you will break or lose the bind.In a meat mixture the myosin surrounds or encapsulates the fat and locks it into the fat.Kind of like a mayonnaise.The fat can only stay in suspension up to a internal temperature of 180 f.Above a internal temperature of 180 f is called the drop point of fat.Because if you let it get this hot then all the fat will run out.Your burgers will be dry and your dog will run away.

Two more points.Because egg white is a protein ,it is used as a substitute for binding.Your choice ,you can use the natural binding agent already in the meat or you can add egg white to acheive this.
Starches such as bread crumbs are often added,not to get a bind but because starches swell in moisture and lock up the moisture so that it does not run out of the meat.This helps keep it moist and juicy.

Here is the way I make my kids favorite hamburger.
I take one kilo of grinded reindeer and mix it with ca 150-200 grams of beacon
Than add two tablespoons of Hunts BBQ honey and hickory sauce.
Put in some black pepper, mix everything together and form the hamburgers.

Ready for the grill

Go with the addition of 20% beef fat. Adding anything else is making meat loaf, in my opinion.

I did this for Men's Journal Magazine a few months ago. Becky Gray tested it. It works.

[ 08-29-2003, 21:40: Message edited by: wayne nish ]

Some very good advice here. A couple more points, from my experience.

If you want "burger meat" for chili, spagetti sauce, etc. -- run it once through the coarse grinding plate and package it for freezing. Don't add any fat -- it's cooking in liquid and doesn't need fat.

For burgers, meatloaf, meatballs, etc -- run it once through the coarse plate and once through the fine plate. I used to add about 15% beef suet, but on advice from a guy in Alaska I quit. I freeze it as pure ground game meat, then add "enough" olive oil along with spices, breadcrumbs, etc when I'm making burgers. That way the burgers hold together, are lean and healthful, and taste like the game, not like cow fat.

Caribou is the best, followed by pronghorn. Just my opinion...your tastes may vary.

One more thing came to mind from a mis-spent former life in product development: Acidity also affects the binding qualities of meat. Now, for the life of me, I can't remember if I was trying to keep things acid or base -- Turnerhunter, you probably remember? Dutch.

Gentlemen,
It's certainly none of my business what anyone eats, but adding all that fat to your venison or whatever, is not the route to take for a long and healthy life. MHO.
Stepchild

Not exactly sure of the numbers Dutch.I do know the effects that acids have on protein are to coagulate and firm it.Same effect is seen when sugar is added.It firms fiber.This is why I never add vinegar or sugars to meats when cooking untill after they are tender. Turnerhunter

I am still thinking Dutch.Earlier in this thread I talked about the ways to break out the myosin in meat to get a good bind.One way it happens more readily is in the presence of salt.
Salt is considered an acid.Salt concentrations in the neighborhood of 4-5% will definetly give you a great bind.However salt concentrations around 2% are just about where most people find it to taste just right.
So what I do is take all of my salt in my recipe and work it with only a small portion of the meat in order to get a bind.once I have broken out the myosin, I simply add the remainder of the meat to even out the saltiness.

Pete E,

We use nothing but lean deer in our ground venison and when we make burgers we add some egg and cracker crumbs. The key to good burgers is not to over cook them. We use a George Forman grill and I try to not cook them any longer than it takes to get the pink out of the center. If cooked right 9 out of 10 people can't tell my burgers from lean beef. I process my own deer and am a fanatic about not getting hair or bloodshot meet in my ground meat. Good Luck.

I butcher all my own venison. In the process all the fat and "silver skin" is removed. Then I grind with pork burger that's about 70% fat in a 3:1 mix (7% fat?). They are frozen into 3 lb chunks. When making burgers they are mixed with 1 clove minced garlic and 1 egg per 3lbs. Cooked over a gas or weber grill in 1/2 lb patties until cooked through being sure not to squish out the juices. Served on a full bun with sauted onions and all the other junk you want. PURE HEAVEN!!!!