My daughter will be twelve next year, and is already talking about finally being able to hunt for herself, not just accompany daddy. I am starting to think about a first center-fire for her, and the Ruger Ultralight in .257 Roberts seems like a good place to start. Does anyone have any experience with this specific rifle/caliber combination?

If I get her one, I will probably replace the trigger, polish the bolt rails, and put a 4X Leupold compact on it.

Any other suggestions for a first centerfire rifle/cartridge combination for a new hunter/kid? My daughter is of average height and build for her age.

Can't beat .243Win for that application. 4x leupold should be a perfect scope for first rifle.
BB

I think you made a great choice although factory ammo may be hard to find if you don't handload. I would add a Pach.Decel. butt pad. I sure she will enjoy that rifle from you for the rest of her life.

For my daughters first rifle I found an old Remington 788 in 243. It had a 4x Leupold and was used by all my children. I have a tendancy to shy away from the ultra light rifles if the daughter or son can handle a medium weight rifle. Felt recoil is substantially increased in the ultra light rifles.

Good Hunting
Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

i'd be warey of ultra light, generally their barrels are a little too whippy. I'd go for a standard ruger in 257 roberts.

It is a proud moment for any dad when his girls take their first game. I started the twins at age twelve as well, but with a 220 Swift and lots of range work. For the first hunt at age 16, they shared the Swift and my 7x57 fitted with a suppressor that also reduces recoil by about 30%. They were under 45kg (99lbs) and 5'1" at the time. Photos at http://skyboom.com/gscustom/index8.html at the bottom of the page.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

You're on the right track with the Ultra Light. One caution: Ruger used to use their longer rather than their shorter action with the .257. If that is still the case, I would suggest going to something with a "short" action. This places the weight of the gun closer to the shooter, and consequently makes it easier for younger, shorter arms to hold up.

The problems small shooters (children) most often have with rifles (and I've had a lot of experience in this area) are:

1. Drop in stock too great. Kids have slender faces and it's hard for them to both get their head down on the stock properly and align their eye with the scope at the same time. Fashion an additional comb riser if necessary.

2. Scope mounted too high. Same problem as above. Use the VERY lowest rings which will clear the bolt and the barrel. (Ruger factory rings are infamous offenders in this regard, being made to clear big bells. If you go with the Ruger, get some lower rings.)

3. Gun too long, not just in the pull, but overall, making it front-heavy for a kid. Chop the barrel as short as necessary (but still legal) to make the gun balance for a small shooter. So you loose a hundred FPS? The deer won't know it.

4. Action too stiff. If the gun is new, hone the action with a little polishing compound until it works as smoothly as Uncle Bob's worn old 1937 Model 70 Winchester.

5. Make sure the kid always, ALWAYS shoots with ear protection. In addition to preserving their precious hearing, keeping them protected from muzzle blast will do away with 90% of their perceived recoil and will prevent most flinching problems. And NEVER, EVER, for God's sake, let a kid shoot a gun with a muzzle brake. The recoil of the heaviest possible load in a .257 is well within their tolerance, but there's no way to protect them from the ravages of a muzzle brake. They'll flinch like hell and complain of ringing ears. Just because you're deaf (and me, too) doesn't mean that they are (or should ever be).

Remember, gun fit is the most important issue with a young shooter. If they can shoulder the gun, see through the scoope, and reach the trigger, they can shoot as well as any adult. If you're hesitant about "ruining" the stock by cutting it off, just remember that your daughter will have a son or daughter of her own sooner than you'd like to think, and mom's gun will work even better for your grandchild! My son's .243, after training about 4 other kids to shoot, is patiently waiting in the gun safe for his child to come along!

i'm kinda partial to the Remington Model 7 in .260. I love the accuracy potential of the 6.5mm bullets, plus they have a little bit more umph than the .243, although a bullet placed in the boiler room is all thats needed. Its just my preference. And thats my 2 cents.

cyberhick

Loudn,

Kindred spirit. My daughter is only just 5 though, sigh, a long wait for daddy. I have a M70 featherweight being fitted with a beautiful walnut stock now, it's going to be a 257 Roberts Ackley when the new Douglas barrel is installed. I figure I'll hunt with it for a few years, until she's old enough, and passes her safety class. Then when she's ready, I'll have the stock cut down for her, have the barrel cut from 24 down to 20 inches, and it's her deer rifle. Adding spacers to the stock as she grows. I can't wait for her to be old enough to hunt with me. I envy you (a little).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigBores:
BigBores and Loudnboomer,
You guys are so lucky your kids have an interest and your kids are so lucky that they'll get to spend some of the best times with the ones they really admire the most. I bought a Browing BLR in 308 for my first son's third Christmas and now that he's 24 he 's finally shot it. Just one of those things either they have the interest or they don't. I can really say that I waited and waited but sharing the outdoors just didn't happen. Another cartridge that should deserve consideration would be the 7x57 Mauser. The rifle combination that you first posted sounds really good. Stonecreek has the rest of your info. 470 Mbogo

If you reload I'd recommend the Model 7 in either 7mm08 or 308 Win. I bought my boys a 7mm08 in a Rem Model 788 and a Model 7 in 308. They are both very accurate rifles but the chance of losing the clip for the 788 spooked me so much and it made so much noise rattling around that I got another 7mm08 in the Model 7. All these rifles have 18.5 inch barrels and either 2-7 or 3-9 Burris Compact scopes and will put handloads into less than 1/2 inch at 100 yards using Barnes coated boattail bullets at full power. If I had it to do over again I would use Leupold scopes instead of the Burris as the eye relief is more forgiving. I also had trigger jobs,Decellerator Pads, and glass bedding done on all the rifles. The nice thing about these calibers is that if you have the time to handload you can vary the power to handle anything from coyotes up to elk ,using the right bullets. You might also find,as I did , that these handy little rifles are a real joy to carry and that your kids might have a tough time getting their guns back. My wife found that out after I tried out her little Rem Model ll00 LT-20 shotgun but that's another story!!!

Louden, er, Mr. Boomer....

I think you are making a good choice, I would be tempted to go with a 243 like B_B suggested. While just as adequate for taking deer, the big difference is that she is not dependent on you to load up ammo for her. If you want to that's fine but there might be times that is would be convenient for her to go and get a box at the store, especially when she turns 15 and wants to be a little more independent from dad. In my neck of the woods you don't see a whole lot of 257R ammo. A 4 power scope is good, or a 2-7 variable.

Like some others my kids are still a little on the young side but getting there (6,3, 1 1/2) and this fall if all goes well we'll be living in the wide open country so I can start breaking them in a little. And always remember hearing protection! I'm hoping that we might be the last prematurely impaired generation due to listening to unprotected gunfire in our childhoods!

lnb,

I'd get a Rem Mod 7 in .243 if you don't reload. 7-08 or .308 if you do reload.

Don

Another lucky group (in addition to parents whose kids express an interest in hunting) are the kids whose parents want to take them hunting (something I never had).

I well remember a time when I was in first grade. Our next door neighbor had bagged a deer, and had it hanging in his garage. All the neighborhood kids were there to get a look at it. Meanwhile, my dad (who eats red meat and worships Rush Limbaugh) shook his head and grumbled in disgust. I never understood why, and he wouldn't talk about it.

I started all my kids out on a 222 Rem. and taught them to hunt, no shots beyond 50 yds.

I feel like a 257 is a little too much recoil unless you load it down to 2400 FPS with a 100 gr. bullet for most kids...Most parents never know until its too late that they just installed a flinch in the child and discouraged their hunting...I have seen this happen and the parent wondering why the kid didn't like hunting...The youngsters have delicate hearing also and the muzzle blast hurts thier ears, just like a puppy, they can be ruined right off the bat.

theres allways time for the bigger guns later on, I went to the 250 Savage and light bullets then up....I raised two boys and one girl and they all love to hunt...thats just my call but remember a mistake is hard to fix in this instance...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

The M77 Ultra Light is a wonderful little rifle, as is the Model 7. The 257 is a great little round as well, but as others have mentioned, something like the 243 or possibly a 7mm-08 may be better, if for no other reason the availability of ammo.

I once saw a M77 Ultra Light in 250 Savage that I'm still kicking myself for not buying...

Ruger has just come out with a M77 Compact. It's different from their Ultra Light. Specs are at the Ruger web site. (http://www.ruger-firearms.com)

The Compact comes in .223 Rem, .243 Win, .260 Rem, and .308 Win. Weight approx 5 3/4 lbs. Barrel length 16.5", Length of pull is 12 3/4". Model numbers M77CR and KM77CRBBZ. Blued and Stainless.

This might be worth a look for use as a youth's rifle.

-BOB

Congratulations on being able to take your daughter hunting and congratulations to your daughter for having such a great dad!

I hate to go against the grain, but I would shy away from the 243 and step up to the 7-08. It has great performance on deer size game and doesn't kick significantly more. Consider the Model 70 Compact Classic and start her off right!

This is the combination that I bought for my 10 year old son. Model 70 Compact Classic in the 7-08 and a 3x9 Leupold Vari II. Can't wait to help him clean his first deer. I don't know who will be prouder.

Personally, since I do reload, I would look at the 257 ammo problem as a plus. It would give me and my daughter yet another level of shared time and bonding while I taught her all the aspects of reloading, and enforce the theme of self reliance in life. I also think a hunter that handloads is more apt to know his or her rifle, load, and bullet performance and limitations. I would look forward to "having" to load ammo with her. I think with even a normal recoil pad that the 257 wouldn't be a problem. Less so than the 7-08, or especially 308.

Had both the .243Win and .257Roberts at the same time. Both my wife and daughter used both as they liked. .243 was a Savage 110 and the .257 was a Ruger #1. My daughter liked the Ruger my wife liked the Savage for different reasons. The .257 will be a good choice as a first rifle.

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Handgun Hunter
LOVE THOSE .41s'

B_B,

While I agree with you totally about reloading, there needs to be the realization that is is not about you or your needs but should be about your daughter, as you will be doing this for her and not you. Sorry if that sounds rude as I don't intend it to be, but honest. You and I both know all of the advantages of reloading so we don't have to preach to each other about them, but when she grows up and starts to be independant (though at 5 I bet you're already seeing that streak!!) she can have a rifle that she can go hunting and shooting with friends with (notice I'm not saying without adult supervision or anything, but as she grows up she will do things with people other than her parents)and not have to be dependent on dad or his reloading equipment to make up ammo for. Now my daughter is not there yet either by a long shot but I have taught and worked with enough people in this group to know that when forced to choose between a choice where you have to acknowledge to a parent they need them for something, or a poorer choice where at least they don't have to admit they still need to rely on mom and dad, they often take the worse choice.

Besides, it's not too early to buy an Oregon Arms chipmunk rifle for her. She may not be ready for it until she's 7, but you can still play with it!

Mark,

I guess I'll have to buy her her own reloading press, that way after I teach her how to use it, she can do so without my help (sniffle). What a fine birthday present that would be for say, a 15th bday? Hmmm.

The rifle cartridge/combo that you mentioned is good.I have a Ruger ultralight rifle and it is an excellent rifle.You also might want to check out the new Ruger compact rifle in 260.This is the rifle that I plan on starting my kids out on.I also would perhaps consider a Marlin or Winchester lever action in 357mag,44 mag,or 30/30.

At least consider the 6.5x55 Swede. It is a great accurate and low recoiling rifle. good luck on your next of kin. "D"

l-n-b,

I think a .257 Roberts would be perfect.

I started my daughter out when she was 12 with a .25-06. She shot her first deer at about 350 paces, then got so excited she threw the gun down.

It wasn't too much recoil for her, and the Roberts will have a little less, maybe.

I'll post her pictures (along with 3 other bucks from one mornings hunt) as soon as I get a scanner.

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Shoot once!

I agree with cyberchick. .260 is hard to beat for a kids or womans or a light recoil man's rifle for that matter. More knockdown than the .243 and less recoil than the .308. A Remington model 7 with a 4x scope should be just the ticket. Good hunting

LnB, my choice would be for a REM 700 LSS Mtn rifle in 260 or 7mm08. It's 22" barrel will have a little less muzzle blast than a 18.5" or 20" carbine barrel. The Mtn rifle has a trim stock for little hands, you could shorten the length of pull and add a decellerater pad at the same time. Rem bolt guns shoot pretty accurately with a little tuning. Your choice is fine also I would prefer a slightly longer barrel. sure-shot

l-n-b,

Brian Pearce just did an article in the Sep 2001 Rifle on the .257 Roberts. Check it out.

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Shoot once!

250SAV, 257Roberts, OR a 257DGR
www.duanesguns.com

My 11 year-old daughter is now 5' 6" tall, and can graduate from the rimfires to what I feel is a good platform: the T/C Contender carbine.

The T/C Carbine weighs about 4.5lbs. unscoped, and is well-proportioned for a young hunter (a youth stock is available). The trigger is easily adjusted for weight of pull, sear contact, and over-travel. They shoot very well, and there are innumerable chamberings available.

I'm going to start her out with the .223 Remington barrel; when she's ready, she'll use the SSK 6.5JDJ barrel.

When she's older, she can start using one of Dad's rifles, or I'll get her one of her own.

Next year, we'll take her to Texas so she can shoot a hog or two in a no-pressure situation

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

I think I've posted this before, but I will second Model 7 in 7-08. Two of my three daughters have gotten their deer with it. The third got started too late last season but will probably get inducted this year,Lord willing.We always practiced on the bench with the 120gr factory load which is very light in recoil and then used the Light magnum for hunting.One other thing I have found helpful is to get the life sized deer targets from NRA and use it to achieve good shot placement. Oh, for the girls there is a recoil pad that velcros on to the bra strap maybe a P.A.S.T. product.(I think we got them from Orvis.) Keeps that buckle from digging in. And yes we are fortunate that they are interested. Good hunting. Russ

loud, I wouldn't get a beginner a Model 7 sized rifle in anything larger than .223. The recoil from that rifle is too great. If she is experienced and too small for a standard rifle, then it may be the ticket.

I have shot Model 7s in 7-08 and .308, and would rather shoot my 6lb 11 oz (naked) .270 any day.

I would use the little .223 to teach shooting, then to teach waiting for the right shot. Also, I would not get a young person a tiny rifle. They are just harder to shoot well, all things considered. This is assuming the kid is nearly adult sized. If she requires a small rifle because of her stature, that is another thing.

If I had to use the Model 7 or Ruger Ultralight, it would be in .243 at largest for a youngster.

I know this is considered small, but that's what I would do and in fact am now doing.

Best regards, Talus

Hey Talus,

Just do us all a favor and stop shooting naked, this is a family board.

Hi, Guys:
Remington made a short run of the perfect girl's deer rifle several years back. A Mountain Rifle in 257 Roberts.

Remember that a girl or woman will have narrower shoulders and a shorter neck than a male of the same height, on average, so a shorter stock will likely be necessary. Likewise, a long eye relief scope (Leupold) will help.

I got the PAST Heraean Shield that Russ D mentioned for a 12 year old neighbour 6 years ago. She liked it then and she likes it now. http://www.pastshooting.com

Some girls will shoot anything if a boy is watching. Another young neighbour figures a 7mm Rem. Mag. is just right. If you saw the massive 5 pointer she got last fall, You'd agree.

Bye
Jack

i would either choos a .264 (6.5 mm) or a 7mm rifle. if i remember you can't go much past 100 gr. bullets on a .243 and it would most likely be only a deer rifle, the 6.5 or 7 will work for larger animals

also i'd use a simmons Aetec 2.8-10x44, good scope, relatively good price if you look around and it'll have a great field of view

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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed !!

[This message has been edited by Wildcat (edited 08-24-2001).]

I'm finally getting caught up after Africa.

Thank you to you all for your help and suggestions. You all have given me a lot to think about. I love trying to decide on the "perfect" rifle!

My daughter turned 8 this summer and shot her first whitetail last fall, she has also shot feral hogs. Emily is shooting a mannlicher stocked Ruger 77 in 250 Sav. She shoots a bolt action 22 rimfire for target practice and never shoots the 250 Savage except at game. She thinks they are the same rifle and has never said anything about the recoil. Like the rest of us she never feels the recoil when shooting at game and has yet to experience it from the bench, hence no flinch. (I'm a poet, too.)

L&B
My daughter started hunting with me when she was 14. I borrowed a 340 Savage in 30-30 for
her the first few years untill she got used to shooting a highpower. Then I let her use my 25-06 . Later I found another 340 in 30-30 that is just like new.Only problem is she won't give the 25-06 back.

RR

How about a Browning Microhunter in 260 or 7mm-08. These are very nice guns for small framed individuals.

DON'T get anything bigger than a .257 roberts and with any barrel less than 22 inches in lenglth. And do add a full one-inch decellerator pad to it. Give your little girl something that will be fun to shoot, read; not loud and not hard kicking for her age. Light is nice but recoil increases with it. The Ruger ultra-light has a very short barrel that will be loud.